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01-27-2020, 05:33 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
City: Guntersville, Al
Vessel Name: StarLite
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II - 2003
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 413
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Panic is a killer. When I feel a little tinge in a tight spot - a little guy on my shoulder screams: You don't have to die this day, this way! Turn and Burn!
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01-27-2020, 06:04 PM
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#22
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olebird
Depends! A few years back, a tornado came down the lake and took out several of the older marinas. Alred's rebuilt with all metal. Unfortunately Jackson County was untouched and dated back to the 50 or 60's. Guntersville City Marina was moved from down town (and a real fire trap) to the south side of Big Spring Creek and expanded. I think it was rebuilt with steel - not sure. At least Guntersville FD has a good sized Fire Boat with a Pump & Water Cannon.
Brown's Creek Marina - scares me just to drive by. Same as Jackson County.
The real problem is lack of codes and enforcement. This may force some changes. Many marinas are out in the county where there are few if any applicable Fire and Life Safety codes. TVA is so strapped for money by the Feds - they don't do much of anything these days.
For transients, short term I think you can over night at the old down town marina site - no services, but close to downtown - walking distance to a couple of good restaurants - and the usual "plastic" mystery meat joints.
Alred's longer stays and for services - just watch the channel depth. They also have a mobile lift, and nice facilities.
Don't know much about Guntersville City - haven't been over there in years.
The State Park has a few transient slips (call ahead) with services - shuttle up to the lodge on top of the mountain - decent restaurant - just remember it's a State Park.
Those of us who came back home after careers in the real world - are dragging Alabama kicking and screaming into the 1970's - politics - don't get me started!
PS. Orange Beach & Huntsville - are not really in Alabama!! Ditto Landing (just below the Dam) had a big expansion budget - not sure where that project is.
Thanks for asking.
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What is interesting is if you want to build a new marina on the TN River, under TVA rules, you'll do it all right. Look at the ones built by Rarity Club on Lake Tellico by the developer who had plans to build on Nickajack but went bankrupt with all his developments. Beautiful marinas. I even looked at the property on Nickajack and the potential there and the marina was never going to pay for itself in that location and across from Hale's Bar. Too small and too expensive, much like the development which thought it was upscale but didn't grasp that people weren't going to pay in that location. But today, TVA only allows first class new marinas, just the lakes are full of grandfathered.
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01-27-2020, 06:14 PM
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#23
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Guru
City: Beverly Hills
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,371
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As Ray mentioned this a old fixed marina which is a covered dock with wood structure and decking. I wintered there while on the loop. It was not uncommon to have power station fires and tripped breakers back then 2003-4. I believe it was built and wired for small boat use. I would not be surprised if cold weather and resistant type heating was the cause of the fire, time will tell.
Was the fire wind driven ? I can see from the photos the fire started at the land end of the dock and spread outward.
Make sure you have smoke detectors with fresh batteries, I personally use three on a 36’. boat.
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01-27-2020, 06:30 PM
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#24
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDHo
As Ray mentioned this marina is a covered fixed dock with wood structure and decking. I wintered there while on the loop. It was not uncommon to have power station fires and tripped breakers. I believe it was built and wired for small boat use. I would not be surprised if cold weather and resistant type heating was the cause of the fire time will tell.
Make sure you have smoke detectors with fresh batteries, I personally use three on a 36’. boat.
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Wifey B: McCoy would prosecute based on Depraved Indifference. I'm not saying that to be funny either because nothing funny about this. Saying it as that describes it if power station fires and tripped breakers were common. Likely one of two causes at that time of night, heaters or smoking. (Not kitchen likely at 12:30 AM). I could never sleep on a boat there.
As a Jenny come lately to being a business person, I now understand the struggle between regulating an older business to safety and knowing they can't afford to do it and it would put them out of business. There has to be some compromise but we shouldn't just ignore it. Everytime there's a marina fire we need to look at other marinas. I've been to Guntersville and Alred. I honestly don't know what we do about older marinas that are lacking in safety.
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01-27-2020, 06:39 PM
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#25
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Guru
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olebird
Rich,
Don't think there were any boats side tied to the dock. Pretty sure all were in covered slips - some smaller boats on lifts. Bigger live aboard house boats likely heavily secured - we've had some unusually high winds last few weeks. Likely all gassers.
This is one reason why I bought a diesel.
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A friend was asleep on his boat many years back when a boat in his marina burned down. He never woke up to the commotion and theorizes most of the casualties in this fire like did not either.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
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01-27-2020, 06:48 PM
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#26
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Guru
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,984
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That must be some "knife" you have which will cut through 5/8" nylon in one pull! I have a very sharp hatchet which will handle everything including power cables which normally secures a boat to a pier. It can be amazing how five seconds per line including time to move from one to the next can suddenly be the half minute you did not have in the first place.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
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01-27-2020, 07:01 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
City: St James City/Punta Gorda
Vessel Name: Charlie Noble
Vessel Model: 32 Nordic Tug
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by localboy
50F water...that will suck the life right out of you. Horrible.
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Yes that had to be a jolt to all the organs in the body but if you live thru it, It is much better than 3 degree burns over a large portion of your body, ask me how I know.
__________________
The best way to find out is get her out on the ocean, because if anything is going to happen it's going to happen out there.
"Captain Ron"
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01-27-2020, 07:26 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,550
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The point about cutting power lines loose is a good one. My lines are normally loops over cleats at the boat end, so throwing them off is fast, especially with 2 of us. Power lines would take more time.
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01-27-2020, 08:28 PM
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#29
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Guru
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
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Just to note, TVA approves, through its 26a permitting process, the initial construction of docks and other structures at the shoreline and may require builders to demonstrate that they intend to comply with applicable codes and regulations before approving plans to build. The agency’s main interest is insuring that structures conform to shoreline/reservoir development master plans and that they are designed to meet environmental requirements for such things as discharges into waterways and erosion control. TVA also limits the size of residential docks and ensure that structures don’t pose a threat to navigation. Unless things have changed in recent years, TVA has no authority over electrical or other code compliance once a structure is built and does not inspect for ongoing compliance.
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01-27-2020, 08:57 PM
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#30
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Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB
Wifey B
As a Jenny come lately to being a business person, I now understand the struggle between regulating an older business to safety and knowing they can't afford to do it and it would put them out of business. There has to be some compromise but we shouldn't just ignore it. Everytime there's a marina fire we need to look at other marinas. I've been to Guntersville and Alred. I honestly don't know what we do about older marinas that are lacking in safety.
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This really seems like an area where insurance companies should come into play. Most wiring codes tend to grandfather in existing rules while only making upgrades required when new equipment is installed. It would seem to me that this is an area where insurance companies can push the new standards by increasing premiums or denying coverage. With all the publicity surrounding freshwater electrocution and need for the more sensitive GFI breakers on power pedestals, you would think insurance companies would be proactive in requiring updated shore power systems and inspecting their insured marinas.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
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01-27-2020, 10:23 PM
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#31
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Guru
City: Bayfield, WI
Vessel Name: Gopher Broke
Vessel Model: Silverton 410 Sport Bridge
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitaine R
Yes that had to be a jolt to all the organs in the body but if you live thru it, It is much better than 3 degree burns over a large portion of your body, ask me how I know.
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Lake Superior average surface temperature is only 55 in AUGUST when it has warmed all summer. I swim in 50 and less every day I boat (but not for long I assure you). The difference is planned immersion vs accidental. That is where the drowning occurs.
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01-28-2020, 07:23 AM
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#32
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
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I know of one local covered marina, maybe 30 boats. Concrete docks, concrete roof. Now that's the way to make a covered storage. AND it is right next to a very good mom/pop seafood restaurant. No doubt, impossible to get a space. SMILE.
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
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01-28-2020, 03:15 PM
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#33
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Guru
City: Beverly Hills
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,371
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Next day photo.
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01-28-2020, 03:51 PM
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#34
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Someone mentioned earlier insurers having problems with such design. I wouldn't bet at all on this marina having any insurance on the property itself. I'd say on the TN river fewer than 20% have insurance on the docks.
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01-28-2020, 04:23 PM
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#35
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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Announced that four children and a 19 year old were among the dead.
Sad sad sad.
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01-28-2020, 04:28 PM
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#36
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies
Announced that four children and a 19 year old were among the dead.
Sad sad sad.
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Tremendously and in all the sadness will the lessons be learned. Hoping the rebuild will be very different, although wouldn't guarantee it will even be rebuilt.
Then it's what about the others similar.
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01-28-2020, 04:31 PM
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#37
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Guru
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB
Then it's what about the others similar.
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The design of a lot of the covered slips makes me think that even with more modern construction, some significant fire protection would be a big benefit. Sense a fire on one of the boats, have sprinklers dump a ton of water on both sides of the boat and spray water sideways over the top (under the roof) with the hope of containing the fire to the boat of origin while the fire department makes their way over and the neighboring boats GTFO if possible.
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01-28-2020, 04:37 PM
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#38
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Guru
City: Mississippi
Vessel Name: ADAGIO
Vessel Model: CHB Present 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 920
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So sad indeed. Prayers for all. We stayed at Alred's and at Ditto Landing this past fall while on a trip up to Chattanooga and back. Both newer, all metal structures with modern power stands. Columbus Marina, our home base on the TennTom, is all metal/concrete with vented roofs and modern elec. I highly recommend First Alert combo smoke/CO detectors - ones that are linked wirelessly - if one goes off, all go off. They will wake anyone.
Just read that one of the casualties was a 36yr old lady from MS that was there with a friend - died trying to help some disabled children get to safety. Sad
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01-28-2020, 04:47 PM
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#39
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin
The design of a lot of the covered slips makes me think that even with more modern construction, some significant fire protection would be a big benefit. Sense a fire on one of the boats, have sprinklers dump a ton of water on both sides of the boat and spray water sideways over the top (under the roof) with the hope of containing the fire to the boat of origin while the fire department makes their way over and the neighboring boats GTFO if possible.
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Well, sprinklers would be very challenging to get the fire and not the boats. However, there are some basic steps that are taken in new construction.
1. Concrete or other material other than wood.
2. Pitched top with opening in the middle for fire to rise and escape.
3. Fire pump and hose at dock. There's plenty of water available, just use it.
4. Updated electric systems on docks and on boats.
5. No space heaters allowed.
6. Any propane must be kept in fire proof locker.
7. No smoking.
8. Smoke and fire alarms on the docks themselves. This means no grilling on covered docks.
In addition there are questions as to whether any of the houseboats should be allowed on covered docks.
One topic I expect to arise and wish it wouldn't is liveaboards. However, they come in all quality and types and it's clear this marina was pretty much an anything goes marina.
Since regulations were tightened years ago on the lake we lived on in NC, there have, to my knowledge, been no new covered marinas. Several new marinas built, all open.
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01-28-2020, 04:50 PM
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#40
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Guru
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,984
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Metal piers and vented covers are all well and good, but without the additional automated fire fighting equipment previously mentioned, one fully involved boat fire means another on either side of it in a few additional seconds. Boat across from it, probably a few more seconds. Boat fires in marinas, covered or not, are like prairie fires. Sprinkler and other such systems are the best way to slow them down.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
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