Finally, the build will start.

[ben2go]

A quick catch up for those that may not know my back story. I've had health issues that kept coming up over the past decade that prevented me from being on a boat. Day trips sure, full time no.

For many years I wanted to build a boat of my own. I've looked around at boats the past few years but never found THE boat that tickled my fancy. Then a friend and I tried to strike a deal and sign a contract to keep us true to our plan and build a large boat. He had the supplies. I had the knowledge and time. That fell apart this spring.

So the past few weeks, I had to come down on myself with a firm hand. Now or never. Get my head right, pick a few designs, and start sending emails. I'm waiting to hear back from those emails. With the info that comes back, I will be choosing a design and plan package.

In the meantime, I will be wrapping up some projects, selling off somethings, and shopping for boat parts. I hope to have my spot cleared and my bow shed going up by the end of August when my son starts his junior year of high school.

I'll be asking more questions and bugging the heck out of some of you.

 

[twistedtree]

looking forward to watching.

 

[ForceMultiplier]

Whatcha gonna build?

 

[Northern Spy]

Not selling the TW200 are you?

 

[MurrayM]

Whatcha gonna build?

Hi there,

How do you like your Tolman? Did you build it yourself?

 

[ForceMultiplier]

Hi there,

How do you like your Tolman? Did you build it yourself?

I absolutely love my Tolman! I built and launched it in 2000, so she's now 19 years old - having kept a boat for that long should show how much I like it.

 

[ben2go]

Whatcha gonna build?

Undecided until I hear back from the designers/NA about the details of their plans. Study plans are good but they still leave enough out to warrant a few dozen questions before laying down money. The list of plans developers I narrowed down to are Spira, Buehler, Brewer, and Selway Fisher. There were many other designers I was looking into as well.

I'm still going to need a dink. Oh, here I go again. :lol: I think I have the plans for the dinghy I want. I just need to dig them out of my hard drive.

Not selling the TW200 are you?

I never ended up buying one. My son was wanting one and got me to wanting another small bike. His USAF Jr. ROTC career is taking off. He is spending his time on that now. He is hoping to enlist in the USAF, after high school graduation, with a higher rank due to all of his ROTC work. He's also been diligently looking for a job. When I was 16 I had a lot of options but kids now have limited options in our area. He's not being picky either.

I absolutely love my Tolman! I built and launched it in 2000, so she's now 19 years old - having kept a boat for that long should show how much I like it.

Those are really nice boats. Renn Tolman was an outstanding man. I wish he didn't have to leave us so soon. R.I.P. Mr. Tolman.

 

[ForceMultiplier]

Those are really nice boats. Renn Tolman was an outstanding man. I wish he didn't have to leave us so soon. R.I.P. Mr. Tolman.

I was lucky to get to talk to Renn when I was building my boat. What sets his "plans" apart was his way of explaining the building process so that anyone could build a skiff.

 

[twistedtree]

Do you know what material you will build with? Most one-offs seem to favor wood, steel, or aluminum, I think to avoid the need to make plugs & molds. But I don't know much about it. I'm intrigued by the whole process of CNC/laser cut parts kits that can be made from CAD plans, and welded together to create a boat. That seems like a very effective way to build a one-off.

 

[ben2go]

I was lucky to get to talk to Renn when I was building my boat. What sets his "plans" apart was his way of explaining the building process so that anyone could build a skiff.

You're a luckman. I never got the chance to speak with him. Everyone I talk to that met him said he was a great fellow and drew a crowd at boating events he went to. I never heard a negative word spoken about him. That kind of reputation doesn't come easy nowadays.

I agree. He had a way of explaining things that almost anyone could understand. I think he lived by the Einstien philosophy

If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.

Do you know what material you will build with? Most one-offs seem to favor wood, steel, or aluminum, I think to avoid the need to make plugs & molds. But I don't know much about it. I'm intrigued by the whole process of CNC/laser cut parts kits that can be made from CAD plans, and welded together to create a boat. That seems like a very effective way to build a one-off.

All the plans I have made inquires about are plywood over sawn frames. All of them utilize a fiberglass hull covering for waterproofing and durability. It also adds strength. I'm sure you know that though. I plan to take it one step further and tab the frames to the hull and epoxy coat the inside as well as the cabin inside and out.

I have welding experience. It was a required subject when I went to school for industrial mechanics. I own a good, but small, welder. I find wood a bit more satisfying to work with. My oldest son (21) has some welding experience and went to school for it. He's in the process of starting a new job and looking to move again. So, if I ever build another, albeit larger, boat, it will probably be in metal.

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

for design ideas and plans try Devlin https://devlinboat.com/about-devlin-design-tech/devlin-design-catalog/


There might be something that appeals to you.... When he builds a boat it is constructed using a stitch and glue method which lends it's self to one off fabrication...

 

[sbman]

Undecided until I hear back from the designers/NA about the details of their plans. Study plans are good but they still leave enough out to warrant a few dozen questions before laying down money. The list of plans developers I narrowed down to are Spira, Buehler, Brewer, and Selway Fisher. There were many other designers I was looking into as well.

George Buehler passed away last year. I was in contact with him at the time about some plans I was interested in and the communication suddenly cut off. A few weeks later I found out he was gone. His assistant communicated that they did not know if plans would continue to be sold, but it seemed unlikely. I told them I'd be interested if they decide to continue and have not heard anything since except that there was a statement released for a while that the plans sales was stopped until further notice.

 

[Jon H]

"I'm intrigued by the whole process of CNC/laser cut parts kits that can be made from CAD plans, and welded together to create a boat. That seems like a very effective way to build a one-off."

This is how my boat began - a lot of pre-cut Alu sheets that showed up
on an 18 wheeler.

 

[ForceMultiplier]

What size and style boats are you considering?

 

[ben2go]

for design ideas and plans try Devlin https://devlinboat.com/about-devlin-design-tech/devlin-design-catalog/


There might be something that appeals to you.... When he builds a boat it is constructed using a stitch and glue method which lends it's self to one off fabrication...

Devlin was in the running. I just couldn't find the design I liked.

George Buehler passed away last year. I was in contact with him at the time about some plans I was interested in and the communication suddenly cut off. A few weeks later I found out he was gone. His assistant communicated that they did not know if plans would continue to be sold, but it seemed unlikely. I told them I'd be interested if they decide to continue and have not heard anything since except that there was a statement released for a while that the plans sales was stopped until further notice.

It was sad to hear of his passing. I sent an email anyway with hopes of getting the Jullian Adderly plans and the 34 and 38 DD. I know these are too large to trailer with a one ton truck, but I was thinking future build, maybe.

The Jullian Adderly plans are in his first edition "Backyard Boat Building" book.

"I'm intrigued by the whole process of CNC/laser cut parts kits that can be made from CAD plans, and welded together to create a boat. That seems like a very effective way to build a one-off."

This is how my boat began - a lot of pre-cut Alu sheets that showed up
on an 18 wheeler.

If I was doing a metal boat, I would go that way. I have, or had, a connection at a company I worked for. I could get most sheet/plate metals at cost and get everything laser cut at cost. I had to provide the cut files and wait for a time where business was slack.

What size and style boats are you considering?

26-30 feet with a beam of no more than 8'6". A basic cabin cruiser with no flybridge. Something similar, but larger, than my avatar with an inboard diesel. The boat in my avatar is a 27' Sitka with a flat bottom. My original plans were to build the 30' version with the V entry bow, a diesel stern drive, and longer cabin. It could still be an option, but even a sterndrive diesel won't get around, or under, 2GPH at theoretical hull speed from Sitka. Hull speed, I think, is around 6 to 7 knots in Sitka. I believe she would be plowing a large wake.

 

[ForceMultiplier]

Have you considered the Great Alaskan and Kodiak models from: https://www.glacierboats.com/

 

[ben2go]

Have you considered the Great Alaskan and Kodiak models from: https://www.glacierboats.com/

I looked at them. Great boats, similar to Tolmans. I'm trying to stay with a displacement or semi-displacement hull. I'd like to stay with a diesel inboard.

 

[ben2go]

No word yet on any of the emails I sent out. Two books I ordered came in. One contains a scaled-down version of the Juillian Adderly plans.

George Beuhler - The Troller Yacht Book, A Powerboater's Guide to Crossing Oceans without getting Wet or Going Broke. I'm planning to get the second edition this week or next.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0...96527e9139713b15cab787e15bece4&language=en_US


Nigel Calder, Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual 4th Edition. It's the most recent one I have seen. If there is a more recent version, please point me to it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...b1d11ce8389a851153a29f50ec9b08&language=en_US


Just a note. George Beuhler's site is still up and his Amazon store is still taking and filling orders. I don't think there is any support for his plans but I think someone is still selling them or handling the sales.

 

[ben2go]

Buehler's Captain Eddy was my first choice, but I never received a response about buying the plans. My runner up was Spira's San Miguel or Cane River. San Miguel won out with its deep bilges and low engine position. I tried emailing Mr. Spira about three weeks ago and haven't heard a peep. I sent him another email this evening. I had a few more questions about San Miguel, but it's the boat I am planning to build. I'm hoping for a start date around the 1st of November.


A link to the full-size photo just in case. https://flic.kr/p/2ggu9Li

 

[RT Firefly]

 

[Northern Spy]

Weird. Go to Spira's website and you see a picture of Willy! (Nomad Willy) Hey Eric, you're famous!


http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_sanm.php

 

[ben2go]

Weird. Go to Spira's website and you see a picture of Willy! (Nomad Willy) Hey Eric, you're famous!


Spira International Inc - San Miguel Displacement Cruiser Wooden Boat Plans

It's been there for yars and yars. :lol:

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Why would Erics boat be on a Spira website?I'm assuming Spira website is selling his designs? Willards aren't Spira designs....

 

[RT Firefly]

 

[ben2go]

Why would Erics boat be on a Spira website?I'm assuming Spira website is selling his designs? Willards aren't Spira designs....

No clue but yes, I have seen several sets of his plans along with the few sets that I have. They are his own design.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Anything you put on the internet is free to everybody.
I have no problem w it at all but he’s just using the Willard boat as a good example of a full full displacement hull. It is and she cruises at 6.15 knots w a hull speed of 7 knots. A real FD hull around 30’ will cruise about a knot below hull speed. The San Miguel Would cruise at 5.5 to 5.75 knots estimated. Since this hull is not even sniffing at SD you’ll be limited to that speed .. just about exactly. If you want to cruise at 7 knots you’ll need a longer hull or flatter lines or both. And I don’t think you’ll need 15hp. Willy takes 18hp to run at 6.15 knots and due to very much lighter weight San Miguel should cruise one knot under hull speed on about 8hp. A 14hp engine will be plenty of power.
Looks like a good boat Ben but a little more like a sailboat than a powerboat. She’ll hobby horse or/and pitch a lot w/o fuller ends. Kinda like a sailboat w no mast. Fuel consumption will be about a quart an hour though and adding weight will hardly change that.

Looks like Jeff thinks the Willard is a “SkipJack” ... not so and the SanMiguel will not go 9 knots.

Ben I’m on a boat building forum on FB. It’s called “Boat Building & Builders” and it’s on FB. Jeff is prominent there and some of the builds are interesting. A lot of the builders are from the mid-west and south w a very very wide range of experience and ability.

 

[ben2go]

Anything you put on the internet is free to everybody.
I have no problem w it at all but he’s just using the Willard boat as a good example of a full full displacement hull. It is and she cruises at 6.15 knots w a hull speed of 7 knots. A real FD hull around 30’ will cruise about a knot below hull speed. The San Miguel Would cruise at 5.5 to 5.75 knots estimated. Since this hull is not even sniffing at SD you’ll be limited to that speed .. just about exactly. If you want to cruise at 7 knots you’ll need a longer hull or flatter lines or both. And I don’t think you’ll need 15hp. Willy takes 18hp to run at 6.15 knots and due to very much lighter weight San Miguel should cruise one knot under hull speed on about 8hp. A 14hp engine will be plenty of power.
Looks like a good boat Ben but a little more like a sailboat than a powerboat. She’ll hobby horse or/and pitch a lot w/o fuller ends. Kinda like a sailboat w no mast. Fuel consumption will be about a quart an hour though and adding weight will hardly change that.

Looks like Jeff thinks the Willard is a “SkipJack” ... not so and the SanMiguel will not go 9 knots.

Ben I’m on a boat building forum on FB. It’s called “Boat Building & Builders” and it’s on FB. Jeff is prominent there and some of the builds are interesting. A lot of the builders are from the mid-west and south w a very very wide range of experience and ability.

Willy is a really nice boat. I've looked at a few Willys online. They were all in the PNW and out of my price range. They are not skipjacks. I'll post a photo of a skipjack below for others that may not know what they are. Skipjacks are pretty versatile boats. They can motor well and sail well. They have limited room and are not fast for the go-fast boaters.

I wondered about that 8 knot speed quoted on the landing page for San Miguel. The plans show a recommended 35hp for her. I was planning the Beta 38 and a large externally regulated 120A alternator. I know a 130A alt can consume up to 7hp from a gasoline engine when it's working hard. The 120 shouldn't be far behind but the diesel has torque on it's side.

Glad you mentioned pitching. My plan is to respace the frames two inches apart. That would push the length from 27' 2" to just under 29', if my calculations are correct, and flatten out the lower hull while giving a slightly longer waterline. I'm considering running a short mast in a tabernacle for a limp home sail and steadying sail. Similar to Buehler's(R.I.P.) Dhow sail plan he has for his boats.

I knew about the FB page but I left FB in 2014. I have avoided going back. It may be time to sign up again to get a little help and advice. I've built knock together boats between 8 and 16 feet for paddling and small outboards. This will be my first large boat build. I may have questions. I've done a good bit of boat repair both mechanical, structural, and cosmetic. It can be great fun and interesting.


On one of the forums, a guy had bilt a really nice small Skip with a cabin. He had the option of motoring or mounting the mast and sailing. I can't find that one but this is a really nice small sailing version.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Ben have you considered the Spira Chubasto 27? Or Tad Roberts designs?

I suspect you’ll find the SanMiguel’s motion to unpleasant and the speed too slow. But I don’t really know what you want in a boat.
But I’ve looked through Jeff’s boats and see the drawings showing the boats aren’t very clear. For example look at the waterlines. Don’t look realistic in some cases. Some boats look heavy and some look light and should be much heavier.

The Chubasto isn’t as cute. She has plenty of rocker so will run in a full displacement mode but is fuller at the ends and will pound especially at higher speeds where she’ll be running on her midsection that is very flat. But she’ll run considerably faster than the SanMiguel. A bit bow high though. The 30’ Key West has no rocker at all so would be good only at higher speeds.

Ben are you sure you’ll be happy at well under 6 knots?

 

[ben2go]

Ben have you considered the Spira Chubasto 27? Or Tad Roberts designs?

I suspect you’ll find the SanMiguel’s motion to unpleasant and the speed too slow. But I don’t really know what you want in a boat.
But I’ve looked through Jeff’s boats and see the drawings showing the boats aren’t very clear. For example look at the waterlines. Don’t look realistic in some cases. Some boats look heavy and some look light and should be much heavier.

The Chubasto isn’t as cute. She has plenty of rocker so will run in a full displacement mode but is fuller at the ends and will pound especially at higher speeds where she’ll be running on her midsection that is very flat. But she’ll run considerably faster than the SanMiguel. A bit bow high though. The 30’ Key West has no rocker at all so would be good only at higher speeds.

Ben are you sure you’ll be happy at well under 6 knots?

I've looked at Chubasco. Many years ago, when I first learned about Spira's boats, it wasn't recommended to lengthen the cabin. In the pics, the engine house is right in the center of the boat and nearly blocking the cabin entrance. Without major modifications to the rear deck to lower the sole, extending the cabin aft would be difficult and needed for headroom. The other issue is the rocker. She carries her transom just above the water. Moving weight rearward could cause the transom to go under creating drag. Weight could be moved forward or ballast added.

Tad Roberts boats in the 27-30 foot range are around 10 feet or wider. His trailerable boats are 23 feet and smaller. I don't think I can go that small and live aboard. 27-30 is pushing it even for my minimalist lifestyle. I could probably make Wedge Point work with modifications but I really don't want to run an outboard engine. I would have to have a generator.

I'm not sure I'll be happy at 6kts. The ICW and a lot of places along the GL are speed restricted or no wake zones. It would be nice to have some speed in the PNW. There's a lot of long passages, I hear, through the area between WA and AK. I will be solo as well so no one for the night watch. I'll have to drop the hook.

The other options I was looking at was San Juan and Cane River. They are semi-displacement and both can take a 50-75 inboard diesel. Not much space in those under floor for tankage. I thought about building Sitka to 30ft. with the V entry bow and building a full keel. I could run a compact higher power turbo diesel in a V drive configuration. I could run displacement speeds and still have the kick to get up on plane. Building Sitka that way is stepping way outside the original design. She would be kind of like a Downeast type hull with a full keel and V entry bow. She would also be a good bit heavier. That may add stability and slow rolling and also help her track straight.

 

[ben2go]

Ben have you considered the Spira Chubasto 27? Or Tad Roberts designs?

I suspect you’ll find the SanMiguel’s motion to unpleasant and the speed too slow. But I don’t really know what you want in a boat.
But I’ve looked through Jeff’s boats and see the drawings showing the boats aren’t very clear. For example look at the waterlines. Don’t look realistic in some cases. Some boats look heavy and some look light and should be much heavier.

The Chubasto isn’t as cute. She has plenty of rocker so will run in a full displacement mode but is fuller at the ends and will pound especially at higher speeds where she’ll be running on her midsection that is very flat. But she’ll run considerably faster than the SanMiguel. A bit bow high though. The 30’ Key West has no rocker at all so would be good only at higher speeds.

Ben are you sure you’ll be happy at well under 6 knots?

I have my answers including the teeter-totter question answered. San Miguel is similar to a sailboat and will need to be loaded heavily to keep pitching down in rough water. I always knew I would load her heavy for my journeys and living aboard.