Explaining to guests that a rub rail is exactly what it is

[PhilPB]

I don't know how many times I've had to pronounce to guests that they are not to get between the boat and a piling. I use my rub rails for their intended purpose but it's hard to get guests to understand that. There is always the "Superhero" that thinks they need to fend off when we are totally under control backing into our slip.

 

[psneeld]

"touch something again that I don't tell you to and I can make sure your hand(s) get smashed"

 

[Shrew]

Pretty easy.

"We dock the boat all the time just the two of us. Introducing a new hand will only confuse the process. Please do us a favor and don't assist."

 

[GoneFarrell]

Fished one or two of those superheroes out of the Columbia River for doing similar. Was really dangerous because of the current under the dock. Snag your pants/coat on a spike or nail under the dock and automatic you're on the 6 o'clock news.

 

[Comodave]

That is what fenders are for. I used to teach and test boat crew for the CG Aux. I would tell them that fenders are replaceable but fingers and hands may not be. I was coordinating an Operational Exercise at Lake Mead, back then it was full, when one of the people I had trained and tested came running up from the dock with blood all over his hand. I asked him what happened and he said “I did exactly what you told us not to do”. He used his hand for a fender. It cut off the end of one of his fingers. There was a doctor on the boat. He looked at the piece of finger and flicked it overboard and said “fish food”. There are huge carp that hang out at the docks there and one snapped up the finger tip. The guy was very upset that a fish ate his finger tip. Oh well…

 

[Choices]

We know several people that have broken windows trying to keep the boat off a piling. I would rather lose a finger than replace a window...

 

[markpierce]

Experienced boaters want ignorant dock people to just stand there.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. C. Hmmm...interesting choice. Personally I would rather lose a boat than any of my parts...

 

[Comodave]

Greetings,
Mr. C. Hmmm...interesting choice. Personally I would rather lose a boat than any of my parts...

Me too…. Well at least some small part on the boat.

 

[slowgoesit]

We know several people that have broken windows trying to keep the boat off a piling. I would rather lose a finger than replace a window...

After you've saved 8 windows from breaking, you'd find it pretty difficult to pick your nose!

 

[Comodave]

After you've saved 8 windows from breaking, you'd find it pretty difficult to pick your nose!

Good one…

 

[guy with a boat]

We know several people that have broken windows trying to keep the boat off a piling. I would rather lose a finger than replace a window...

This is new to me. How does this occur? And with several people? I’m apparently living a sheltered boating life.

 

[psneeld]

This is new to me. How does this occur? And with several people? I’m apparently living a sheltered boating life.

Pretty common. They lean back against a side window while stiff arming the piling and the resulting pressure breaks it.

Of course I was in an area with very strong tidal currents that ran through the marinas that pinned the boats against pilings.

 

[alormaria]

We know several people that have broken windows trying to keep the boat off a piling. I would rather lose a finger than replace a window...

I've both had to replace a window and lost a finger (two different circumstances).



I'd take the window replacement every time.

 

[Hydraulicjump]

Can I add my pet peeve to this? Probably happened to all of you at one time. The "good samaritan" that rushes up to grab a bow line as you are pulling in and to help you stop the boat chooses to immediately cleat the line off about the middle of the dock, spinning your stern into the boat you are sharing a slip with. All this while your most experienced hand--my wife in this case--is getting ready to step off from the cockpit and into what is now a rapidly opening chasm that guarantees a swim. Now every time I see a good samaritan coming to help I say thanks, wait to cleat it until I say so, which will be after my wife cleats the stern line! Took two of these great embarrassments with lots of yelling from my spouse to end this practice. And now with a bigger trawler, this is vitally important.



I am with the earlier instructions for guests. "Thanks for your offer to help. We got this."



As for windows and fingers...yikes!

 

[rslifkin]

Can I add my pet peeve to this? Probably happened to all of you at one time. The "good samaritan" that rushes up to grab a bow line as you are pulling in and to help you stop the boat chooses to immediately cleat the line off about the middle of the dock, spinning your stern into the boat you are sharing a slip with. All this while your most experienced hand--my wife in this case--is getting ready to step off from the cockpit and into what is now a rapidly opening chasm that guarantees a swim. Now every time I see a good samaritan coming to help I say thanks, wait to cleat it until I say so, which will be after my wife cleats the stern line! Took two of these great embarrassments with lots of yelling from my spouse to end this practice. And now with a bigger trawler, this is vitally important.

I am with the earlier instructions for guests. "Thanks for your offer to help. We got this."

As for windows and fingers...yikes!

We always make sure the bow line isn't reachable from the dock for that reason. It needs to be one of the last lines on for us in most situations (due to hull shape and cleat placement) otherwise the bow line is guaranteed to end up too tight and the stern will never get near the dock.



In addition, the admiral is very good about giving anyone on the dock clear and explicit instructions such as "take this line, put it on that cleat". And if they don't listen and start doing something potentially dangerous or that's likely to lead to a very messy docking, she knows that she has full authority to tell them in no uncertain terms to "get the **** away from the boat and don't touch anything" if the situation escalates to that point (which has only happened once that I can recall).

 

[mvweebles]

This is new to me. How does this occur? And with several people? I’m apparently living a sheltered boating life.

Slight tangent, but I'm told you have to be careful where you place fenders on boats with large hull-port windows. Point load from fender has cracked more than a few.

Peter

 

[C lectric]

Blame the designer.

 

[mvweebles]

Can I add my pet peeve to this? Probably happened to all of you at one time. The "good samaritan" that rushes up to grab a bow line as you are pulling in and to help you stop the boat chooses to immediately cleat the line off about the middle of the dock, spinning your stern into the boat you are sharing a slip with. All this while your most experienced hand--my wife in this case--is getting ready to step off from the cockpit and into what is now a rapidly opening chasm that guarantees a swim. Now every time I see a good samaritan coming to help I say thanks, wait to cleat it until I say so, which will be after my wife cleats the stern line! Took two of these great embarrassments with lots of yelling from my spouse to end this practice. And now with a bigger trawler, this is vitally important.



I am with the earlier instructions for guests. "Thanks for your offer to help. We got this."



As for windows and fingers...yikes!

I've given up on this one (well meaning dock helpers who over-tighten bow lines). I have to yell to get their attention which I hate - the linesman may be my best shot at a free beer in an hour. Best has been to immediately ask them to ease the line 5 feet (lucky to get 2). I don't know if I'm tying a cleat hitch incorrectly or if everyone else is, but I always have to re-tie lines. Same with fenders. Given how few boaters know basic line handling for docklines and fenders, little surprise the schmoe on the dock offering to grab a line doesn't know. But again, could be my way is unusual. I don't think so, but who knows. Maybe I'm missing something.

Nothing kills momentum faster than a taught bow line. Might as well shoot the helmsman. But if that's the worst that happens on any given day, total success.

Peter

 

[backinblue]

Pretty simple rule I learned long ago is to never put any body part between the boat and the dock. As far as dock lines, you are usually tossing a line to an uninformed teen, so just don't toss a bow line if you don't expect them to use it. Once you have a spring or stern line in place you can do that. There are times when a strong crosswind can blow the bow off a pier, so it should really be up to the capt to prep the crew on the docking plan prior to arrival.

 

[rslifkin]

There are times when a strong crosswind can blow the bow off a pier, so it should really be up to the capt to prep the crew on the docking plan prior to arrival.

Even in that situation I find it's almost always better to get a spring line on and hold the boat in place with engine power than to rush for a bow line. The exception is when backing into a slip with a crosswind where a bow line on the upwind side is more likely to become necessary for control (assuming there's a boat, piling, or other obstruction downwind that you don't intend to put the boat against).

 

[Airstream345]

We have a very simple rule, if you’re not crew or being told directly what to do by crew, stay inside the boat for docking, undocking and locking.

Everyone wants to help but only the crew (my self and my wife) know how to direct you, line handlers, etc for our boat.

Regarding the bow line or over enthusiastic line handler. My wife has gotten pretty good at telling everyone from casual helpers on the dock to 6’2” ex-Navy men what, where and when to do anything with a line. It’s a sight to see.

If I’m on the dock I’ll ask an incoming boat if they need help. If yes, I’ll say - “just tell me what you want, where you want it and when”.

Simple

 

[PhilPB]

While docking today in our marina I offered the wanna be helpers on the seawall a couple beers if they just sat down and watched. It worked well!

 

[catalinajack]

Pretty common. They lean back against a side window while stiff arming the piling and the resulting pressure breaks it.

Of course I was in an area with very strong tidal currents that ran through the marinas that pinned the boats against pilings.

Read an account of a person using a boat hook to fend off. It got jammed between a window and the lock wall. Bye-bye window.

 

[rslifkin]

Stories like that are why I take the attitude (particularly in locks) that if you're fending with your hands, a boat hook, etc. make sure there are no pinch points involved. The boat hook should never be limited by boat structure before it's fully inboard of the rub rail, hands shouldn't be anywhere they can get pinched, etc. Basically, always plan so the worst thing that can happen is you're not strong enough to fend adequately and fail to stop the boat. But that failure should never lead to getting crushed or something like a boat hook getting jammed into somewhere it doesn't belong.

 

[SteveK]

I have gotten into the habit of mid tie and then stern tie. The bow line is the last line after mid springs are in place.
If we have a dock helper toss the mid line, if there is 2 dock helpers, the stern line.
Mid line can be tied anytime and used as pivot.

 

[psneeld]

I have seen plenty of pros with myself included (many times) where the boat hook is absolutely necessary for some things and it gets hung up because of miscommunication or something simple. Times like that, the boathook (often a 12 foot oak pole 2-3 inches in diameter) becomes unmanageable by all except the Hulk and King Kong.

Tossed quite a few away rather than inflict the damage or injury. The oak hooks usually floated (thankfully as the boss would have chewed on me), seemed like too many recreational ones didn't float unless the owner added a collar or filled it with foam or bought a "floater".

Only reconnecting precise communications with the boathandler or a huge amount of experience by the one handling the boat hook averts injury or damage.

Unfortunately a lot of newer boaters wind up in the same situations with boat hooks and not the experience to avert injury or damage.

For my trawler, I tried to dock not needing a boat hook except once safely in a slip or tied alongside and the hook was just a "long reach". Using it to fend is the worst, using it to reach and pivot, using it like a spring on smaller vessel can be effective if needed.

 

[rslifkin]

I have seen plenty of pros with myself included (many times) where the boat hook is absolutely necessary for some things and it gets hung up because of miscommunication or something simple. Times like that, the boathook (often a 12 foot oak pole 2-3 inches in diameter) becomes unmanageable by all except the Hulk and King Kong.

Only reconnecting precise communications with the boathandler or a huge amount of experience by the one handling the boat hook averts injury or damage.

For my trawler, I tried to dock not needing a boat hook except once safely in a slip of tied alongside and the hook was just a "long reach". Using it to fend is the worst, using it to reach and pivot, using it like a spring on smaller vessel can be effective if needed.

That reminds me of another key rule: if you've got a boat hook hooked or caught on something and you can't hold it, just throw the damn boat hook out of the way, it's replaceable and we've got a few on board. I've seen people come damn close to ending up in the water trying to save something as dumb as a boat hook.

 

[MOJO]

Just tell your guests, "We got this so please don't try to help. You're not covered by my insurance so if you do something that damages the our boat, the dock or another boat you'll be on the hook to pay for it."

 

[Captankirk]

I'll take the help getting tied up, but they are often surprised when I start screaming instructions (the Admiral says I talk loud anyway, so screaming is not a stretch). Captain and Admiral are always in charge during docking. She's in charge of the lines, I'm in charge of engines/thrusters. Only had one instance where a dock hand had to be told to back off, but they did and we got the boat secured.
It's your boat. Make sure you are the ones in charge. All the time!!