Expedition yachts

[phillippeterson]

Why do expedition yachts often have the wheelhouse and superstructure towards the stern and have a large open bow area?

 

[draakken]

1/3 from the stern is a more comfortable place to ride in bumpy seas.

 

[phillippeterson]

1/3 from the stern is a more comfortable place to ride in bumpy seas.

Yes, thank you. Makes sense.

 

[psneeld]

Plus if not a very high bow, green water hitting the foredeck is better than hitting bridge windows.

 

[phillippeterson]

Are there any disadvantages to having the wheelhouse towards the stern? Maybe it affects the space down below. Or makes handling docklines difficult. Those are just wag's.

 

[psneeld]

Are there any disadvantages to having the wheelhouse towards the stern? Maybe it affects the space down below. Or makes handling docklines difficult. Those are just wag's.

Every design has compromises so forward/aft it depends on vessel size, needs, layout etc, etc, etc.

One biggie is visibility from the wheelhouse is more limited but you also can see/feel more in some maneuvering situations....again design limitations/compromises factor in greatly.

Dang near resembles house design in variations.

Bottom line for some designers/owners it may just be plain old preference in appearance. Some believe certain design features make them look "salty" or "sleek" or this or that.

 

[long-cours.62]

The more confortable

Why do expedition yachts often have the wheelhouse and superstructure towards the stern and have a large open bow area?

It will be when you are on the axis of rotation of your hull, forward in my point of view is not comfortable at all and my stomach confirm that point of view

 

[bowball]

It also means the tender is most often carried in the bow, so launching and retrieving with a high bow is harder and less safe in my imagination - as I’ve never done it.

I think High bow means docking line handling could be more challenged. I saw those Bering videos and thought how could one reasonably dock that?

As others mention, there are offsetting positives so you optimize to your use case.

 

[guy with a boat]

It also means the tender is most often carried in the bow, so launching and retrieving with a high bow is harder and less safe in my imagination - as I’ve never done it.

I think High bow means docking line handling could be more challenged. I saw those Bering videos and thought how could one reasonably dock that?

As others mention, there are offsetting positives so you optimize to your use case.

A conventional aft boat deck is often higher above the water than the foredeck on an aft pilothouse boat, so the height for the tender is not an issue.

We have an aft pilothouse with tender on a high bow. We have zero issues of any kind with loading or launching the tender. Line handling likewise is a non-issue. Access is good anywhere on the boat.

I like an aft pilothouse for the reasons already discussed. Interior layouts vary but can be great or bad in either (fwd/aft PH) configuration. There are lots of expedition boats with fwd PH also, so either way works. Part of the fun is that there are endless ways to build boats; many are good and all are compromises.

 

[Simi 60]

What makes an expedition boat an expedition boat?

 

[long-cours.62]

The use of the boat !

 

[SeaLion]

Exactly!

 

[Moonfish]

Why do expedition yachts often have the wheelhouse and superstructure towards the stern and have a large open bow area?

Because it makes them look really cool (in a North Sea sort of way...)!

 

[bowball]

A conventional aft boat deck is often higher above the water than the foredeck on an aft pilothouse boat, so the height for the tender is not an issue.

We have an aft pilothouse with tender on a high bow. We have zero issues of any kind with loading or launching the tender. Line handling likewise is a non-issue. Access is good anywhere on the boat.

I like an aft pilothouse for the reasons already discussed. Interior layouts vary but can be great or bad in either (fwd/aft PH) configuration. There are lots of expedition boats with fwd PH also, so either way works. Part of the fun is that there are endless ways to build boats; many are good and all are compromises.

You definitely convinced me to prefer the aft pilot house on the 68 to the forward, everything factored in.

And I don’t know why I’m hung up on this small point! So please forgive me.

I’m not as easily convinced launching is easier on the foredeck though. I can single hand launch my tender and manage it by going down to the aft cockpit and continue to lower if from there while I make sure it’s oriented properly and the engine isn’t banging into anything shiny.

And board it right there.

I just don’t know how that would work given the high bow of the N68 (or far worse Bering).

Or bring it back up singlehanded.

I’ll need to see if there any YouTube’s. Or watch someone. I admit I just don’t know I am only imagining.

Overall though I really like those big Nordhavn’s and that would just be one of the compromises for the mission that would be outweighed by all the great positives. .

 

[ksanders]

Are there any disadvantages to having the wheelhouse towards the stern? Maybe it affects the space down below. Or makes handling docklines difficult. Those are just wag's.

Finding an older copy of cruising under power will enlighten you as to the advantages and disadvantages of different designs of boats.

if you think about it there's only certain ways you can cut up a certain size boat and make it all work out. In the case of a pilothouse boat and I'm talking about a pilothouse boat of 55 feet approximately or less if you move the pilothouse back then you're also making the salon smaller.

That's because on the boats up to about 55 feet the pilothouse isn't really on top of the salon it is midway or halfway up the height of the salon so the boat is not too tall for its length.

 

[Simi 60]

The use of the boat !

Based on that there are a lot of big nordhavns (to name one breed) with all the gear that aren't whereas our previous 10m catamaran with bugger all apart from big sail area was.

 

[twistedtree]

You definitely convinced me to prefer the aft pilot house on the 68 to the forward, everything factored in.

And I don’t know why I’m hung up on this small point! So please forgive me.

I’m not as easily convinced launching is easier on the foredeck though. I can single hand launch my tender and manage it by going down to the aft cockpit and continue to lower if from there while I make sure it’s oriented properly and the engine isn’t banging into anything shiny.

And board it right there.

I just don’t know how that would work given the high bow of the N68 (or far worse Bering).

Or bring it back up singlehanded.

I’ll need to see if there any YouTube’s. Or watch someone. I admit I just don’t know I am only imagining.

Overall though I really like those big Nordhavn’s and that would just be one of the compromises for the mission that would be outweighed by all the great positives. .

I launch and retrieve our dinghy by myself from the forward deck of our Nordhavn 68.

 

[bowball]

I launch and retrieve our dinghy by myself from the forward deck of our Nordhavn 68.

I concede!

 

[Simi 60]

I launch and retrieve our dinghy by myself from the forward deck of our Nordhavn 68.

And on a day with a bit of roll?
Be swinging like a bloody wrecking ball with a shiny hull as its target surely.

It's why I like davits, both ends of tender supported so really only goes from side to side with nothing to hit if it gets out of shape.

 

[guy with a boat]

My wife and I routinely launch the tender from the bow in 5 minutes or less, and can load and secure it in the same amount of time.
I can launch and load it by myself if needed, just takes a little longer. I don’t run single handed so it is not often that I would need to do it alone.

Rough conditions make it trickier, just like from a boat deck. It can still be done safely in reasonable conditions. It just needs to be learned and some care taken.

The tender on the bow is just different, not better or worse.

 

[twistedtree]

And on a day with a bit of roll?
Be swinging like a bloody wrecking ball with a shiny hull as its target surely.

It's why I like davits, both ends of tender supported so really only goes from side to side with nothing to hit if it gets out of shape.

Well, a two point davit would indeed help in those situations, but I think that's independent of whether the tender is launched from a forward or aft boat deck, right?

 

[Hippocampus]

On the recent alloy boats they’re placing the dinghy on swim platform. Guess you fill it up with buoys or something in case of a pooping on passage. Still it looks easy to launch and retrieve. We have a Freedom lift. Very much like it but don’t think it’s appropriate for a voyaging boat. Best I’ve seen is a garage. With hydraulics launch/retrieve is a push button affair and the tender isn’t deck cargo or in davits. Unfortunately not practical until a very large vessel. In the past carried the dinghy deflated, upside down and lashed to the foredeck. Even with green water never moved. Think I’d worry about the dinghy filling with water +/or become unsecured more than others things on a voyaging boat.

 

[Simi 60]

If I was doing a custom build THIS would be a must

Platform is lowered below water as swim /dive platfirm and put tender on
And lifted to any position in between via cheap 4x4 winch and dyneema.

If we get overseas to the lands of cheap labour I'll get a set made for ours.

 

[Drako]

What makes an expedition boat an expedition boat?

Ocean-going with the ability to be self-sufficient for long periods of time. And maybe being able to venture into high latitudes.

 

[long-cours.62]

Self sufficient

Self sufficient for long period like this one ?
big hold, freezer few cubic meter and ...I think remember 140000lt of tankage it mean now in France 320000€ only for refueling

 

[Circumnavigator]

One factor not mentioned above. As we all know, boats steer by pushing the stern out in the opposite direction from where you want to go. So in tight quarters, you always must pay attention to where the stern is. The farther aft the wheel is, the easier it is to see the whole boat.


I suspect that designers also pay attention to the fact that many "expedition yachts" are bought by sailors getting older and sailors are accustomed to steering from much farther aft than almost all powerboats.



Jim

 

[trawler nut]

Hi all. Really like steel built. Been looking at Seaton yachts web site and I noticed they use " sea water " for ballast. Never heard of using sea water but then I'm not the most knowledgeable person on it either. Anyone else ever heard of it? What's the pros & cons? Thanks for your input.

 

[long-cours.62]

I think

Hi all. Really like steel built. Been looking at Seaton yachts web site and I noticed they use " sea water " for ballast. Never heard of using sea water but then I'm not the most knowledgeable person on it either. Anyone else ever heard of it? What's the pros & cons? Thanks for your input.

circumnavigator will ask at your question because the "clovely" class have lot of water ballast

 

[Circumnavigator]

circumnavigator will ask at your question because the "clovely" class have lot of water ballast

Yes -- Fintry carries water ballast aft and carried it forward until we added the bow thruster -- we put lead up there to replace it.


We use fresh water rather than seawater both because it is less corrosive and because seawater can carry invasive species. The two tanks, P&S, hold 26,000 pounds of water. The only real advantage if that we need to, we can reduce the fully loaded draft from 96 inches to 81 inches. We've never been firmly aground, so we've never used it. We could also reduce her weight by that amount if needed to get into a lift.



Note that later versions of the Fleet Tenders -- the boats that are 220VAC rather than 220VDC like Fintry was -- used the space for a transformer room and had concrete ballast there.


Jim

 

[long-cours.62]

May be

Yes -- Fintry carries water ballast aft and carried it forward until we added the bow thruster -- we put lead up there to replace it.


We use fresh water rather than seawater both because it is less corrosive and because seawater can carry invasive species. The two tanks, P&S, hold 26,000 pounds of water. The only real advantage if that we need to, we can reduce the fully loaded draft from 96 inches to 81 inches. We've never been firmly aground, so we've never used it. We could also reduce her weight by that amount if needed to get into a lift.



Note that later versions of the Fleet Tenders -- the boats that are 220VAC rather than 220VDC like Fintry was -- used the space for a transformer room and had concrete ballast there.


Jim

Your's was owned by a colleague who bought a "fleet tender" in the 90' , built the front cabin like your. The boat was in Caen France