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Old 01-23-2020, 06:21 PM   #1
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Old 01-23-2020, 06:53 PM   #2
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An interesting read.
But of course there will a grandfather clause ..... just as there are grandfather clause for antique cars.
There needs to be research on big polluters compared to the recreation community.
Just wait till the governing body writes additional rules and totally screw up the intent.
Each step reducing the emissions will come at an every increasing price, percentage wise.
We saw that with low sulfur diesel fuels.
The Navy moved away from bunker fuel to diesel fuel, at a significant cost.
At some point, the cost/benefit is no longer positive.
Maybe we should wait until the rest of the world makes significant reductions, catching up with the existing US standards???? A rhetorical question.
Want a little bitty example? Moving away from incandescent bulbs. Sure we can and have done it on our boats. We weighed the options and decided the required power reduction reduced the run time of the generator and fuel..... will we ever see a pay back? Not is my life time.
I can see the necessity for sanitary tank pump out beyond 3 miles or providing a pump out serivce but, any small gain is totally destroyed when a municipal's sanitation plant goes belly up and fills the harbor with crap for weeks, waiting for parts.
This is one advantage of being old. Maybe soon I will die and it all becomes someone else's problem. SMIRK
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:18 PM   #3
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Maybe those ducted diesel injectors that were discussed here a few weeks ago would solve the emissions issue.
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Old 01-23-2020, 08:56 PM   #4
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Here we go again........ spending way more, for very little, if any gain! After all, rich boaters can afford it, even if it is a waste.
Meanwhile, ignore the "bigger fish" (bigger polluters).
What disturbs me the most about all of this, is the total cost (not just dollars) to meet the "green ideals" while the largest polluters (world wide) are doing next to nothing. If this trend continues, we will spend alot and achieve very little on the global scale. I know, I am a pessimist when it comes to this topic.
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Old 01-24-2020, 01:50 AM   #5
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Here we go again........ spending way more, for very little, if any gain! After all, rich boaters can afford it, even if it is a waste.
Meanwhile, ignore the "bigger fish" (bigger polluters).
What disturbs me the most about all of this, is the total cost (not just dollars) to meet the "green ideals" while the largest polluters (world wide) are doing next to nothing. If this trend continues, we will spend alot and achieve very little on the global scale. I know, I am a pessimist when it comes to this topic.
I agree with your conclusion.
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Old 01-24-2020, 07:36 AM   #6
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The problem is the current creation of laws by risk assessment.The concept of requiring risk reduction for 1 in 500 year or 1-1,000 year possible events caused progress to be delayed , sometimes for decades.


Replacing oil transfer RR tank cars with a pipe is a no brainer , yet "environment " foks delay pipes for decades.


Far better would be the historic concept of damage repair and payment.


A pipe bursts and oil floods a football sized field , clean it up, and compensate the land owner.


Far safer than decades of inaction waiting for approval of dreames of perfection.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:33 AM   #7
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Lets get this thread back to "Bashing" cruise ships! I enjoyed that thread.

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Old 01-24-2020, 09:54 AM   #8
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Lets get this thread back to "Bashing" cruise ships! I enjoyed that thread.

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But the food is good and I dont have to wash dishes afterwards.

The cruise ship I was on.... the captain said, he had no need to dump sanitary when inside the 3 mile limit. He used ballast tanks to capture the juices as necessary.
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Old 01-24-2020, 10:07 AM   #9
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In reference to the comment about the Navy's move away from bunker fuel, we did it because it was such a darned mess to deal with in steam powered ships (I served in both bunker and lighter distillate powered steam ships) and just a decade later would not run the power plants (gas turbines) the Navy wanted to install and now run most of its warships. I remember coming topside in a black oil powered ship in the mornings when we were moored in still weather conditions and finding what we used to call cow patties all over the ship. It was soot deposits up to an inch in diameter blown out of the stacks of the steam ships not connected to shore power by the night watches as they blew down the boiler tubes. That is one reason "sweepers" is called on navy ship immediately after reveille - to avoid the crew going topside and immediately tracking that crap all over the interior of the ship. So we swept it up and dumped it, wait for it, over the side. We blew tudes once a watch at sea and always had to make sure the relative wind was such as to carry the soot away from the ship. Lighter distillate fuel burned in our boilers created a lot less mess and only required that the tanks be cleaned of bunker fuel and different burner orifices be placed on the boiler burner tips. I was there when we converted USS Iowa from black oil to distillate.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:50 AM   #10
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What got me from the article is the "size" of the system. So why so big when I see pickup trucks, semis and cars with diesel engines? Could it be the speed of the vessel?

We "older" boats may be OK, but if you buy a new boat, lots of extra $$$$.
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Old 01-24-2020, 01:04 PM   #11
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That is a good reason to hold on to an older boat with mechanical engines, rather than laying out big bucks for eco-friendly common rail diesel engines that have proven to be a DIY nightmare.
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:12 PM   #12
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This is one of those things that convinces me that the people in government who write these rules are really the C and D students. Adding SCR to a boat is a spectacularly bad idea, apparently the people writting the regulations have no idea what an SCR actually does and how. It is a REDUCING agent and uses urea to reduce NOx. Putting this on a boat where you'd be dumping this into the ocean, or worse a closed system like a lake, is about the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. If this gets any meaningful traction I predict some very negative unintended (but preditable to anyone who's educated in this area) consequences including but not limited to algea blooms.
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Old 01-24-2020, 06:54 PM   #13
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Slowmo,
Good post. Yes, some "brainiac" had what they thought was a great idea, but didn't take the time to fully investigate all aspects of it!!
This whole thing "smells" to me.
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