Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-14-2019, 07:16 AM   #21
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Port Credit
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossland View Post
Your boat can be in Canada for three months as a visitor.
Actually it's 12 months and there are ways to get extensions on that.

Canada Border & Services Agency
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
It's taken me 69yrs to get it right. I ain't changin' now !
If you can live with the consequences, go for it - wg
Y'am what y'am an' thats' all that y'am - Popeye
I had an allergic reality - Jillie the Bean
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 07:17 AM   #22
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossland View Post
Here is my suggestion for someone in your situation:
Do not register your boat in Canada. There is 13% VAT plus import duty there. Your boat can be in Canada for three months as a visitor.

It is best to have a US flagged vessel for your trip. This avoids the US Cruising Permit and the need to call in at every stop. Since you are not US citizens, you cannot federally document your boat, but you can state register it. Rules differ from state to state, but Delaware doesn't care where you live, or your citizenship, and has no sales tax. I have never seen the need for a LLC.

I can't give you specifics, but there are companies in the US who process boat registration applications. They are the experts at this. Any good boat broker should be able to help you with this.

Foreign owned, US state registered vessels are very common. There are hundreds, if not thousands owned by Canadians, and we have met US boats owned by people from France and Australia.

One more thought. Check to see how long you personally can remain in the US as a visitor.

That sums it up very well.
__________________

__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 08:12 AM   #23
Member
 
City: Munich
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Actually it's 12 months and there are ways to get extensions on that.

Canada Border & Services Agency

Thx, that's another step forward.

We don't intend buying a boat outside the US. I just don't want to close the door on offers from Can.
x2y3z4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 09:05 AM   #24
Member
 
City: Munich
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossland View Post
Here is my suggestion for someone in your situation:
Do not register your boat in Canada. There is 13% VAT plus import duty there. Your boat can be in Canada for three months as a visitor.

It is best to have a US flagged vessel for your trip. This avoids the US Cruising Permit and the need to call in at every stop. Since you are not US citizens, you cannot federally document your boat, but you can state register it. Rules differ from state to state, but Delaware doesn't care where you live, or your citizenship, and has no sales tax. I have never seen the need for a LLC.

I can't give you specifics, but there are companies in the US who process boat registration applications. They are the experts at this. Any good boat broker should be able to help you with this.

Foreign owned, US state registered vessels are very common. There are hundreds, if not thousands owned by Canadians, and we have met US boats owned by people from France and Australia.

One more thought. Check to see how long you personally can remain in the US as a visitor.

It looks like many vessels of more than 65ft are owned by LLCs or lets say "juridical persons" ie. companies. Actually it's the way I go for within the EU/Germany.

I was told the boat insurances ask for the US-social security number on their application forms. A German one is not accepted. A LLC has none.

A side-effect of founding any type of company plus investing a "substantial amount of money" (by CBP-definition...) will be a wider range of US-visa-types to choose from. There is no type of visa for longterm -just4fun-visitors. I did check and carefully study aprox 40 types of visa.

The bureaucracy of the US should not be underestimated, as should that of the EU. Ultimately, it is all about finding the right, legal but also most advantageous way.

For example: It is not our basic idea running a US flag. Dealing with US-insurances, tax regulations, local/county/state/federal-regulations on boating we are not familiar with. When it's quiet simple to me from 30y of experience getting and running a German flag for a vessel located anywhere on planet earth.
The US flag might be the way we have to go for. I dont get headache on that as long as nobody shows up with a better idea.
x2y3z4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2019, 02:13 PM   #25
Member
 
City: Stuart, FL
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23
Checking into port.

There are also troubles for US documented vessels too. We have been cruising for over 10 years on the east coast and the gulf. In one port, for example, we had to take a taxi to the airport customs office to check in from the Bahamas. Other times we had to surrender frozen meat, fruit, etc. such a pain. Now that we stay stateside, we have the “other” problem about not overstaying our allotted time in each state. Right now, we are hurrying to get our boat out of Charleston before we exceed the 180 days, or pay local taxes. This also limits our time in SC us on the ride back south in the fall. Also every bridge tender in the AICW takes your boat name and hailing port as you pass so the tax man can get you if they so wish. Lots of timing and regulations, in spite of weather issues, not the leisurely stroll we all should have. Just my 2 cents, as the Food Lion says.
Maryboo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2019, 02:53 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
City: Hawaii
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 175
I think you are making this much to complicated and the posters to your question aren't making it any simpler. Many still use the term "Federal Registered" which doesn't exist in the US. "Registered" is a state function in all fifty states and US possessions like Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Island and Guam, even in states that have little or no access to large bodies of water.

"Documented" is for US flag vessels of 5 gross registered tons GRT or more. GRT is not related to the actually weight of the vessel. Documentation with the US Coast Guard is only available to US citizens or companies which are majority controlled by US citizens.

State registeration is available to foreign owned vessels but I wouldn't recommend it for visitors. You will be on their tax rolls forever.

There is no reason why you can's fly your EU (Deutschland?) flag anywhere you sail in US waters as long as you are properly cleared in and out. Protocol, but not the law, says that you should also fly a small US courtesy flag as well as your national flag.

Unless you are a dual US/German national you would not be allowed to transfer ownership of the boat to a Delaware company and have it documented with the USCG. This process is called "deflag/reflag" and it time consuming and expensive. And it will not help you with the tax collectors of the various states you may wish to visit.

Your best bet is to stay with your current flag and ownership and check in advance regarding the states you may want to visit so as to avoid those with ridiculous and aggressive tax laws. In any event there are probably no states that won't allow you to stay for at least 30 days.

Good luck.
ProMaritime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2019, 03:00 PM   #27
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryboo View Post
There are also troubles for US documented vessels too. We have been cruising for over 10 years on the east coast and the gulf. In one port, for example, we had to take a taxi to the airport customs office to check in from the Bahamas. Other times we had to surrender frozen meat, fruit, etc. such a pain. Now that we stay stateside, we have the “other” problem about not overstaying our allotted time in each state. Right now, we are hurrying to get our boat out of Charleston before we exceed the 180 days, or pay local taxes. This also limits our time in SC us on the ride back south in the fall. Also every bridge tender in the AICW takes your boat name and hailing port as you pass so the tax man can get you if they so wish. Lots of timing and regulations, in spite of weather issues, not the leisurely stroll we all should have. Just my 2 cents, as the Food Lion says.

That's all the reality of nomadic cruising, but has nothing to do with whether your boat is Documented or otherwise registered.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2019, 03:07 PM   #28
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProMaritime View Post
I think you are making this much to complicated and the posters to your question aren't making it any simpler. Many still use the term "Federal Registered" which doesn't exist in the US. "Registered" is a state function in all fifty states and US possessions like Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Island and Guam, even in states that have little or no access to large bodies of water.

"Documented" is for US flag vessels of 5 gross registered tons GRT or more. GRT is not related to the actually weight of the vessel. Documentation with the US Coast Guard is only available to US citizens or companies which are majority controlled by US citizens.

State registeration is available to foreign owned vessels but I wouldn't recommend it for visitors. You will be on their tax rolls forever.

There is no reason why you can's fly your EU (Deutschland?) flag anywhere you sail in US waters as long as you are properly cleared in and out. Protocol, but not the law, says that you should also fly a small US courtesy flag as well as your national flag.

Unless you are a dual US/German national you would not be allowed to transfer ownership of the boat to a Delaware company and have it documented with the USCG. This process is called "deflag/reflag" and it time consuming and expensive. And it will not help you with the tax collectors of the various states you may wish to visit.

Your best bet is to stay with your current flag and ownership and check in advance regarding the states you may want to visit so as to avoid those with ridiculous and aggressive tax laws. In any event there are probably no states that won't allow you to stay for at least 30 days.

Good luck.

I think you missed a couple of key elements in his situation. He doesn't own a boat that he's bringing over. He plans to buy a boat here. So there is no "current flag" to fly or bring over. Plus, he has considered flagging in his home country, but that makes him a foreign boat in US waters and subject to a cruising permit and reporting all port changes. Plus a need to leave the country after 180 (or maybe 360) days for a while before reentering. If you are in Fl, that's easy because the Bahamas are 60 miles away. But if you are in the mid Atlantic, or somewhere along the Great Loop, Bermuda or Canada can be a long way away. So he seems to have rejected that option, I think wisely.


These things are typically complicated because, well, because they are complicated.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2019, 03:57 PM   #29
Member
 
City: Alphen A D Rijn
Vessel Name: ASHA
Vessel Model: Beneteau Oceanis 44 cc Clipper
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Hi all, I am Dutch and are questioning the same. Not sure if we want to do the great loop with our Dutch registered sailing boat or sell ours before and buy a US trawler. After that bringing the boat to Europe what gives another challenge. After 1998 all new or used boats have to have a CE certification besides the taxes. But that is another thread. So i like to stay updated regarding the best solution.
John
Verschuijten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2019, 04:45 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Martin J's Avatar
 
City: Mt Crested Butte
Vessel Name: Artemis
Vessel Model: Cheoy Lee 67
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 451
Keep it non US if your not a US resident. Lots of little empires as quoted above.
For instance you cannot sail into the USVI without enetring and obtaining your 90 day visa by official scheduled air or ship. (Not Yacht). If you stay more than 90 days in US waters the fines are impressive. Stay more than 183 days in a year your considered a resident and as such welcomje to the IRS on world wide earnings. Also some of the days count into the following year etc so after a couple of years if your maxing it drops to 121 before you pay tax's etc. Keep the boat your nationality and obtain a cruising licence etc. and watch your days.
Martin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2019, 04:52 PM   #31
Member
 
City: Alphen A D Rijn
Vessel Name: ASHA
Vessel Model: Beneteau Oceanis 44 cc Clipper
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Sorry, maybe i was not clear enough, we are currently circumnavigating the world, at this moment in the Caribbean so our point of starting is different. I like the idea of buying a boat in the US but then i want to stick with the boat i have in mind. So i follow your conversation about buying and dealing with the US rules. Afterwards we have to deal with the fact that we want to bring the boat to Europe and deal with taxes and CE certification.
Verschuijten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2019, 04:56 PM   #32
Member
 
City: Munich
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 12
We decided neither to transfer a ship from Europe to US nor to transfer a US ship later to Europe. It would be a different thought if we planned a trip around the world.
Ships can be bought and sold both in Europe and in the US. Also a US yacht type is not necessarily easy to sell in Europe without major modifications or vice versa.
The sales loss does not have to be significant if a differentiated calculation is made.


When cruising a US vessel in North/Middle American or Caribbean you avoid not only the detailed questions regarding ship equipment, ship design, spare parts and power supply (50hz vs 60hz) but also topics like costs of transfer, tax liabilities between EU and US, EPA and CE...


A non US flagged vessel of private use has to leave the US after 12months for at least 15 foreign documented days. This might work once or may be twice, or not. I don't want to get rushed because of that. Plus there are sources of mistakes as far as what I've realized.
x2y3z4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2019, 05:04 PM   #33
Member
 
City: Munich
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin J View Post
Keep it non US if your not a US resident. Lots of little empires as quoted above.
For instance you cannot sail into the USVI without enetring and obtaining your 90 day visa by official scheduled air or ship. (Not Yacht). If you stay more than 90 days in US waters the fines are impressive. Stay more than 183 days in a year your considered a resident and as such welcomje to the IRS on world wide earnings. Also some of the days count into the following year etc so after a couple of years if your maxing it drops to 121 before you pay tax's etc. Keep the boat your nationality and obtain a cruising licence etc. and watch your days.

1. IRS on world-wide earnings because of a Delaware C-Corp??? No no no, impossible. Please explain!

2. I did get in the USVI / yacht / visa trouble once. My actual consideration is getting E-2 or EB-5 visa which should make things way easier.
x2y3z4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2019, 10:19 AM   #34
Veteran Member
 
NCheaven's Avatar
 
City: Chocowinity, (Cypress Landing) NC
Vessel Name: Boatwright
Vessel Model: Camano 31
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 94
No great advice here, but a warm welcome to the USA! I wish for you to receive the same wonderful hospitality here that my wife and I received when visiting Germany last summer! We’re going back to Germany soon! We treasure our German-American heritage, a few family ties from the 1800s, and our NATO partnership. Please include North Carolina in your travels, including unspoiled coastal towns like Edenton, Bath, (The Original) Washington, New Bern, and more. North Carolina truly is Trawler Heaven!
NCheaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2019, 04:51 PM   #35
Member
 
City: Munich
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCheaven View Post
No great advice here, but a warm welcome to the USA! I wish for you to receive the same wonderful hospitality here that my wife and I received when visiting Germany last summer! We’re going back to Germany soon! We treasure our German-American heritage, a few family ties from the 1800s, and our NATO partnership. Please include North Carolina in your travels, including unspoiled coastal towns like Edenton, Bath, (The Original) Washington, New Bern, and more. North Carolina truly is Trawler Heaven!
Thx for the warm welcome to the US!
NC is one of the few states we haven't visited yet. We have to and will do so!
__________________

x2y3z4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
flag, lifeaboard, registration, taxes

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×