Engine room sound insulation what is it?

[Curiosity]

Engine room sound insulation what is it?
Is it a hazard to take down?
I am in the process of installing an air head composting toilet. What is the black foam looking foil faced insulation which is coming down and crumbly. I also think most of The boats odors are held in this material.

 

[Comodave]

It is probably just really old foam insulation that is breaking down. I would take it out and replace it with some Soundown insulation. I doubt it is hazardous but would err on the side of caution and wear a quality mask while taking it out. Be careful that the shop vac doesn’t blow tiny particles all over the boat.

 

[C lectric]

What you describe is, as Commodave says, likely Soundown sound barrier foam.

It will break down over time especially where installed right over top of the engine. The heat will eventually damage it.

I replaced my over the top of the engine foam last summer for that reason but I will give it credit, it was pushing 15 yrs. The other stuff of similar age but not atop the engine is still doing fine.

When originally installed it made a huge difference in the cabin noise.

I no longer bother with the special pins. I simply use a FH #6 SS tapping screw of what ever length is needed with a large washer under the screw head.

The washers can be bought , Fender Washers, usually in several different sizes for right under the screw head.

Then step up to a larger size fender washer or if you are handy make your own out of something like 1/8" Lexan scraps which is what I did and will do as the pins and dome fasteners are removed. The final washer is about 1.5" or 2" diameter.

When installing just snug the screw so it lightly depresses the foam surface.

As for the vacuum think about getting and adapting a LONG hose to the vac. so it is outside the boat. I went to a hose specialty shop and purchased a long piece of hose with the adapter cuffs. The hose is quite flexible, corrugated so the cuffs were needed to screw on to the corrugations.
I actually have two pieces that can be joined to make up about 20 ft.

 

[Comodave]

Another thought is that if it is breaking down that badly, you definitely want to get rid of it so it doesn’t get sucked into the engine.

 

[Curiosity]

All good information. Sounds like removal is not an issue and replacement is not on priority list. Might paint and check noise level. Insulation has been up 30 years.

 

[C lectric]

Pay attention to Commodaves point. If the foam overtop of the engine and is crumbling it will clog the air filters and if you don't have air filters but just the very coarse sound reducers then the foam will be pulled into the engine. Could jam a valve open.

 

[Flatswing]

It is probably just really old foam insulation that is breaking down. I would take it out and replace it with some Soundown insulation. I doubt it is hazardous but would err on the side of caution and wear a quality mask while taking it out. Be careful that the shop vac doesn’t blow tiny particles all over the boat.

Get a Goretex filter for your Shopvac. Filters everything and rinses clean with hose. Can use wet or dry.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I had a similar insulation failure in an ancient van. Running the van without an air cleaner and failing insulation. I learned the hard way. It ruined the compression by wearing the piston rings and cylinders.

Pay attention to Commodaves point. If the foam overtop of the engine and is crumbling it will clog the air filters and if you don't have air filters but just the very coarse sound reducers then the foam will be pulled into the engine. Could jam a valve open.

 

[Curiosity]

Engine room insulation

Good responses,
Have removed the loose material. The dust was not a problem because the foil is containing the dust. It will all need to come out eventually. What a crummy material.

On a side note
Do any of you have an airhead composting toilet. The install is what started this sound insulation item.

Question is on the draw of fan on house batteries.
At 7 watts , how does that equate into how fast batteries run down.

New to owning a trawler have had a few smaller power boats.
Have any of you noticed on these trawlers that one repair/improvement bridges over into several other items. New floor led to new engine hatches,which led to new head which has now led to ripping out sound insulation. Going to have to quit my day job.

 

[mvweebles]

Good responses,
Have removed the loose material. The dust was not a problem because the foil is containing the dust. It will all need to come out eventually. What a crummy material.

On a side note
Do any of you have an airhead composting toilet. The install is what started this sound insulation item.

Question is on the draw of fan on house batteries.
At 7 watts , how does that equate into how fast batteries run down.

New to owning a trawler have had a few smaller power boats.
Have any of you noticed on these trawlers that one repair/improvement bridges over into several other items. New floor led to new engine hatches,which led to new head which has now led to ripping out sound insulation. Going to have to quit my day job.

Re: airhead. I have followed compost heads closely on CruisersForum, a sister site to TrawlerForum that caters mostly to sail. Compost heads are far more popular with sailors than powerboaters. Many owners report not even installing the exhaust fan and having no issues. That said, 7-watts seems like a lot. Energy Star ceiling fans these days are under 15 watts on low. I am installing a Nature's Head compost toilet and will install a fan as I will be in warmer moister climates.

Re: engine room insulation. I just removed the old insulation on my 1970 Willard 36. It lasted about 35-40 years and I just lived with it the last 10 years or so. It was foil backed foam over a thin sheet of lead. I too went with Soundown, their thickest product which is at least 2-inches. I also purchased perforated aluminum sheets to cover everything. I have bit run the boat yet, but will be a significant improvement.

Peter

 

[Mako]

If you’re going to spend the money on perforated aluminum sheets then Ensure you leave a small air gap behind them. Say 1/2” or more. Or better is some low density rock wool behind them. Don’t lay them tight on top of the Sundown. That would defeat the purpose of trying to reduce reflectance.

 

[socalrider]

I am a composting head evangelist; I had a c-head on my sailboat, and my trawler, amazingly, and an airhead installed. I just installed a second airhead and pulled the last of the stinky sewage lines out of my boat a couple weeks ago. They are fantastic if you use them properly.

As for the fan, it shouldn't draw 7W. The Airhead fan spec is 0.06A; less than 1W. You'll never notice it.

 

[Brooksie]

SoundDown claims their later insulation foams do not deteriorate as quickly, I replaced mine 10 years ago and so far they are correct.

 

[Mako]

I am a composting head evangelist; I had a c-head on my sailboat, and my trawler, amazingly, and an airhead installed. I just installed a second airhead and pulled the last of the stinky sewage lines out of my boat a couple weeks ago. They are fantastic if you use them properly.

Would much prefer to have a properly designed and built holding tank system than a human litter box onboard. Gross

 

[socalrider]

Would much prefer to have a properly designed and built holding tank system than a human litter box onboard. Gross

To each his own... I'd say that a tank of raw sewage sloshing around in the bilge is pretty gross. So are pumpout stations, permeated hoses, and joker valves.

There are certainly applications where the holding tank is better. But for us, there's just no comparison. My wife insisted on the second composting toilet, which should tell you something!

 

[mvweebles]

Would much prefer to have a properly designed and built holding tank system than a human litter box onboard. Gross

I going to comment on this even though it's serious thread drift into compost heads.

Let me backup and say that my refit/restoration is well past the value of my boat so my choice of a compost head has absolutely zero to do with cost. I'm also very familiar with working on heads of all types -, my first head project of consequence was 1994, almost 30 years ago including buying a new Groco K, one of the finest manual heads ever produced. That was many, many head system repairs ago, all using the best quality products and materials available at the time.

I've also spent a lot of time on ranches and farms and on off-grid locations. I've been composting home kitchen products for years. It's just not that unusual. Yea, there's an ick-factor, but nothing like replacing a macerator pump or clearing a clog or replacing hoses. These are serious ick-factor projects that take a substantial amount of bleach and a couple showers to clean up from.

The last straw for me was when I was 2 days from heading from San Francisco to Ensenada 2 years ago to be fine my refit. My overboard macerator pump failed so I ordered a replacement. It would run but not evacuate, then die. I was convinced it was an install issue. I broke open lines looking for blockages. Re-ran power thinking it was a wiring issue. Chased down a replacement breaker. Reran heavy positive cable. Replaced hoses. Everything. In the end, if was a DOA macerator pump. No idea why, but it would run, then trip. Some sort of faulty overhear sensor I suppose. But with a couple days to go, that's how I spent a weekend.

Look, I totally get that compost toilets aren't for many (most?). My best friend who loves all other choices I've made thinks I'm making a huge mistake by going compost. I'll admit that of I had guests aboard regularly, it would be a bad idea. But the idea of predictably emptying a pee-bucket every few days trumps the BS scramble I've done for years trying to keep my head system operable.

To each their own. I'm fine with a litter box. I can't tell you how many times ive been in wilderness areas or third world countries. I guess if all you know is the modern conveniences of America, it's an unusual solution. To me, makes perfect sense. Very little to go wrong. Scan the messages on TF and you'll see many that hint at head system issues. Response is always "design or install issue". Sure seems like a lot of design and install issues out there. I'm thinking they are fine KY systems. Good riddence.

Peter