Emergency escape hatch

[caltexflanc]

I believe everyone was out of plane and on the rescue boats (local small ferries and CG units) before the plane was moved to shallow water.

That's correct.

 

[78puget-trawler]

One good feature in those old CHB tubs, aft cabin has a good exit hatch and the for'd berth an overhead hatch too.

 

[Group9]

I believe everyone was out of plane and on the rescue boats (local small ferries and CG units) before the plane was moved to shallow water.

The point was, it never completely sank. They could have taken an hour to get out, although no one realized that at the time, of course.

 

[sdupleich]

We have our halon bottle certified every year. The only way to be sure if it is really charged is to take it out and weigh it. It costs me $10 for peace of mind. My friend just sold his boat and the surveyor was amazed that the halon cert was within date. He said that it was the first one he had found that was current.

I do this also and I'm so glad that I do. Our boat is a 2014 and when we purchased her in March of this year, all of the fire extinguishers were out of date (they were from the original delivery). We had the same issue with our last boat.

Now I'm thinking about secondary exits and I know that we have one in the VIP cabin however there is a very heavy sunpad that's sitting on top of that hatch that would make an emergency exit difficult at best. I'm going to look into getting that sunpad modified (maybe cut in half?) so that it would swing up and out if we ever needed to exit through the VIP hatch. Great discussion!

 

[Comodave]

Maybe take the sunpad to a good upholstery shop and have them cut a hole slightly larger than the hatch in the pad. Then put a canvas hinge on the cutout section so it will hinge up with the hatch.

 

[sdupleich]

Maybe take the sunpad to a good upholstery shop and have them cut a hole slightly larger than the hatch in the pad. Then put a canvas hinge on the cutout section so it will hinge up with the hatch.

It's really big and heavy. I don't think it would even fit in our Jeep to take it anywhere. I do have a really good canvas lady. I can ask her what she thinks. Good idea!

 

[ABfish]

My forward stateroom has a big hatch, which I can easily climb out of. I proved this to myself when I replaced the hatch recently.

But I've been blocking the hatch by storing my dinghy on the front deck. After reading about this tragedy, I'm going to figure out another way to carry the dinghy.

 

[Comodave]

It's really big and heavy. I don't think it would even fit in our Jeep to take it anywhere. I do have a really good canvas lady. I can ask her what she thinks. Good idea!

If it is that big and heavy then in an emergency it will truly be impossible get out of that hatch. Are there any mobile upholstery guys there? Maybe find someone that will come to the marina and do the work.

 

[Comodave]

My forward stateroom has a big hatch, which I can easily climb out of. I proved this to myself when I replaced the hatch recently.

But I've been blocking the hatch by storing my dinghy on the front deck. After reading about this tragedy, I'm going to figure out another way to carry the dinghy.

Yes, when a tragedy like this happens it gets everyone thinking which at least is something good to come from it. You would never be able to lift the dinghy from below in an emergency. Hopefully you can relocate the dinghy.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

The point was, it never completely sank. They could have taken an hour to get out, although no one realized that at the time, of course.

Yes, My company had it in the slings of our large crane as directed by the Coast Guard to salvage it. We were later directed to release it to another crane/marine provider that had a prior contract with airline insurance company..

 

[High Wire]

No mention of smoke alarms or fire detection? The reason for detection is to enable action before the fire becomes deadly. There has to be something missing in this area.

 

[78puget-trawler]

There is a lot missing, but eventually it will all come out. This was an inspected vessel so one wonders.

 

[Comodave]

Yes it was an inspected vessel. I think that maybe even though it met the current requirements, maybe the current requirements need to be updated. Hopefully this tragedy will provoke a review of those requirements. I don’t see how you pack so many people into such a confined space and expect them to be able to get out during a crisis. All it would take is a panicked person or two and the exits would be blocked since they were so narrow.

 

[Insequent]

No mention of smoke alarms or fire detection? The reason for detection is to enable action before the fire becomes deadly. There has to be something missing in this area.

Alarms are very important. Low cost stand-alone ones are very easy to install. A better approach would be to have the ones that are both AC and battery powered as these, at least where I am, are mandatory in housing and are interlinked to each other. On my boat I have the battery only ones in each cabin and the saloon.

Alarms ought to provide you with enough time to escape. I have two means of egress from both sleeping cabins, and like many here would not be willing to sleep on a boat that does not have that.

 

[Comodave]

We don’t know the actual circumstances yet, if we ever will, but I agree that there should have been smoke detectors, etc. I don’t understand how the fire got so large so quickly without some kind of fuel like gas or something. But they say that the galley, where they say the fire was, was powered by electricity. I don’t see an electrical fire spreading that quickly that they couldn’t respond to it except jumping overboard. Maybe I am not seeing the whole picture...

 

[78puget-trawler]

Yes it was an inspected vessel. I think that maybe even though it met the current requirements, maybe the current requirements need to be updated. Hopefully this tragedy will provoke a review of those requirements. I don’t see how you pack so many people into such a confined space and expect them to be able to get out during a crisis. All it would take is a panicked person or two and the exits would be blocked since they were so narrow.

Seeing the pix of the sleeping quarters gave me the heebie jeebies, just too many people are sardine canned into that area. Yikes! There was over 40 people on that little 75' boat! Way too cozy for me!

 

[SoWhat]

There is a lot missing, but eventually it will all come out. This was an inspected vessel so one wonders.

It was inspected and compliant. But...there is little correlation between USCG inspection and safety. USCG mandates the very bare minimum. They recommend additional items but don't inspect for them.

NTSB might issue a preliminary report in several weeks. Final report can take a year. NTSB is typically very thorough and the sister ship is owned by the same company so I am confident NTSB will identify all of the contributing factors.

 

[Comodave]

Yes, I would not be able to sleep in those berths. I am not sure they will be able to determine the cause of the fire or not. Looking at how intense the fire was and how long it burned it may be very difficult but I hope they can figure it out.

 

[BruceK]

Any information why 5 crew were up on deck at 3.30am? Maybe that`s normal prep for the day, maybe not?

 

[Comodave]

I have not seen that info yet, one of the crew was below and lost with the passengers.

 

[Trawler_traveler]

Any information why 5 crew were up on deck at 3.30am? Maybe that`s normal prep for the day, maybe not?

The crew quarters are behind the bridge on the Vision and the Conception. Somehow they woke up with the fire under them, well under way.



-Sven

 

[Larry M]

I can’t imagine 40 people trying to get through this hatch in the best of conditions.

These came from FB last night. I don’t know who took the second photo

The first photo is of Conception’s bunk area emergency exist.

The photo was provided by Jeff Escola, who was the second captain on the boat for quite some time.

 

[SoWhat]

I can’t imagine 40 people trying to get through this hatch in the best of conditions. These came from FB last night. I don’t know who took the second photo The first photo is of Conception’s bunk area emergency exist.

It's worse than you think. The emergency hatch, on top of the third bunk, exits into a cabinet on the galley deck. At high noon, a thin person may be able to scramble up to the top bunk, somehow fit through the hatch, then contort 90 degress to exit the cabinet that covers the exit.
Note: It meets USCG regulations. Opinion: It is not safe.

https://youtu.be/_QDKsKYLivU?t=50
Advance to 51 second mark.

(or view youtube "Truth Aquatic's Vision Dive Boat" for a view of the exit)

 

[Fletcher500]

That photo is a standard bunk layout on a fish or dive boat in SoCal. Tight and congested. I have seen them worse, with more personal affects and gear around.

 

[Comodave]

It is difficult to believe that this would meet the standards. If it does then the standards need to change. No way are 30+ people going to get out of that hatch in an emergency even if it didn’t exit into the fire.

 

[gr.andrews]

FWD Hatch

Our Cape Flattery 42 had the old "doghouse" hatch in the front. It was leaking and we pulled it apart (looked like a lab experiment was going on underneath), and replaced with a Lewmar Hatch. I am now looking for some sort of rope ladder we can stow and hang on the opening if needed, because it is awkward to get out by standing on the V berth for older folks.

There was no way anyone but a small child could have crawled through the dog house hatches. I would recommend everyone with those old style hatches get rid of them ASAP. The engine room is below the galley. The V berth is isolated from the rest of the boat and everything that is likely to catch fire has the potential to block the salon exits.

 

[CDreamer]

Escape hatches / emergencies...try it out!

This is a fascinating thread, brought on by tragedy in SoCal.

It seems the lesson here is "Don't just assume...actually test every eventuality". (i.e; Can you actually get out the escape hatches? Can your spouse or guests?)

Do you have the right fire suppression? Are all extinguishers charged and working?

Do you have "bungs" tethered at every seacock or any below-water-line hull penetration, to stop a leak from a broken line or fitting? Do you have a mallet to tap them in? (More likely: are your seacocks operable...or frozen?

Are your bilge pumps right-sized? Are they operable? Bilge free of stuff that would clog them up?

If someone fell overboard, could you easily get them back aboard? An older person? In a seaway? (some boats don't have swim platforms with ladders)

I've been on a lot of boats and I don't think any owner has ever taken the time to mention emergency or safety-related information.

 

[jrow]

I used to perform Vessel Safety Examinations for USCG Auxiliary. I would fail a boat if it had a dinghy cradled above the front hatch blocking the forward room. The owners would complain that they spent a lot of money to have it installed. I patiently explained it was a "Safety" exam. "Safety" can sometimes be expensive.



On my little 34' I have 8 extinguishers. My wife laughed at me when I put one in the head.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Our Cape Flattery 42 had the old "doghouse" hatch in the front. It was leaking and we pulled it apart (looked like a lab experiment was going on underneath), and replaced with a Lewmar Hatch. I am now looking for some sort of rope ladder we can stow and hang on the opening if needed, because it is awkward to get out by standing on the V berth for older folks.

There was no way anyone but a small child could have crawled through the dog house hatches. I would recommend everyone with those old style hatches get rid of them ASAP. The engine room is below the galley. The V berth is isolated from the rest of the boat and everything that is likely to catch fire has the potential to block the salon exits.

Maybe check out those telescoping stainless steel ladders that they make for swim platform. They hinge and could be folded up against overhead, I would think. Might be easier to use than a rope ladder.

 

[CDreamer]

Years ago on a Pearson "Ensign" sailboat (22' keel boat) we tried to pull a woman out of the water. The transom of an Ensign is probably 15" above the water. It was choppy.

She couldn't get close to pulling herself out. But we had a rope ladder just for this. It was absolutely useless. When she put her foot on a step, the lower 75% of the ladder would just 'tuck' under the boat. We ended up winching her up from the side of the boat.