Emergency actions when you hole your boat

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You folks must have large boats.

Once I put the tools, spare parts and filters, food, clothes and TP on board, there is no such thing as “spare room”
 
Hippocampus said:
Be curious how many here carry a raft? Gumby suits? Immersion suits? Epirbs?, PLBs? How many already have or will shortly buy a combo unit?
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I carried a raft on a 30' boat because the tender was kept on the cabin top. While it was normally very convenient, it did take 10-15 minutes to get it ready in the water. I had a small raft (my wife could throw over) that inflated by yanking the painter. My present boat has Weaver davits and deploying the inflatable (with oars, electric motor, and LFP battery) takes less than a minute. Also a step-thru transom door to make things easier, so no raft.

I have a full "survival" suit (not a gumby), but have only worn that when solo in iffy conditions. We both have full float coats with "beaver tail" crotch straps and hoods. Combined with a May West PFD, one floats about nipple high. Probably good for 30-40 minutes in our waters. Hopefully with DSC, that's enough for our cruising.

But going back to pumps, on the inside PNW waters, probably 99% of our cruising is within 10/15 minutes of a beach. So in theory, our pumps need only keep up for 15 minutes. Horrible as it is to contemplate, a grounding (even with a fuel spill) is always going to be better than a sinking (which will have a spill). Can hardly imagine abandoning ship and watching as the boat, getting lower in the water and on autopilot, heads towards the nearest land.
 
Mentioned a bit about our survival gear in post #54. For the reason you mentioned Drysuits but not Gumby’s as I can don the suit with 800 gram thinsulate in less than 2 mins.
 
Gary Brickell said:
My mechanic showed me a neat trick to aggressively pump out a flooding bilge in a hurry. With the engine running disconnect the big rubber hose from the raw water intake filter and push that hose into the bilge water. The engine will pump out way more water in a minute than several bilge pumps combined.
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Until the intake sucks up trash from the bilge, which you will have in a flooding scenario, it washes debris out form places you typically don't see. If you use this approach, and I recommend against it, it should go through a strainer or strum box.

3700 and 4000 gph bilge pumps are readily available. More than most engines pump.
 
Steve DAntonio said:
Until the intake sucks up trash from the bilge, which you will have in a flooding scenario, it washes debris out form places you typically don't see. If you use this approach, and I recommend against it, it should go through a strainer or strum box.

3700 and 4000 gph bilge pumps are readily available. More than most engines pump.
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LINK HERE
It appears a 4000 gph bilge pump may do 66 gallons per minute. If you look at the link, how many 4000 gph pumps should one install. Has there been a most often scenario of being holed, so prepare for dewatering a minimum 'X' gallons per minute.
 
SteveK said:
LINK HERE
It appears a 4000 gph bilge pump may do 66 gallons per minute. If you look at the link, how many 4000 gph pumps should one install. Has there been a most often scenario of being holed, so prepare for dewatering a minimum 'X' gallons per minute.
Click to expand...


66 gal/min is theoretical. In a real-world install, I'd expect a good install to see more like 40 - 50 gal/min.
 
There is no most common "holing of a boat" that is standard in my mind...what is fairly standard is a partial or complete failure of a through hull to include rudder and prop shafts.

So for me, it would be at least 2X 150 precent of the max flow from one of my biggest through hull openings (redundancy).

Beyond that is a crap shoot for how big any hull breach would be from collision or other damage.

But after addressing compartmentalization, then total volume might be altered to include or disregard progressive flooding.
 
A two-inch hole that is one foot below waterline can fill a 55-gallon drum in 42.4 seconds!
The largest capacity 12V bilge pump now available is a Johnson 4000 GPH or 66.7 gallons per minute. According to Johnson, the pump can provide this capacity only with no hose attached. Pumping water a more realistic 3-feet uphill, the capacity drops to 2600 GPH or 43.3 gallons per minute.
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From the quoted it would seem that one 4000 GPH will not keep up to a 2 inch hole one foot below water line pumping 43.3 GPM (ideal conditions). Perhaps two 4000 GPH pumps at a minimum? That is about 30 amp draw on batteries, no problem if being charged by engine or at dock.
On my boat there are two 2" thru hulls at about 2 feet, so if one were to leak that is 111.1 GPM. Now I need three 4000GPH pumps drawing 45 amps.
 
For any boat/captain....If you don't or can't feel your boat taking on water from handling/rolling....and you don't have at least several alarm systems/electrical sensors also telling you your boat is taking on water (or a water tank failed)...you best plan is to abandon ship as the first reaction as it may be your best.

Sinking like most emergencies is a step process where there are stages that you go through and indicators signal the next best course of action.

Even if you don't have 12,000 GPH pumping, 3000 may be enough to keep the water down long enough to quickly see the problem, apply a bit of damage control to where you get the inflow well below your pumping capacity. So even high amp use by bilge pumps is hopefully not for multiple hours but hopefully only part of an hour.

That is the key to keep from sinking no matter the damage/inflow...just get to reducing the leak early by early detection or being able to see where the inflow is coming from.

Hardly anything in boating (life in general) is a singular problem with a singular action.

The average boat can hold a lot of water in the bilge... the best defense usually is decent compartmentalization, doesn't have to be watertight compartments with fancy hatches/doors.... just high enough separations so it's easier to determine flooding. Though each section should have good pumping capacity and high water alarming on it's own.

High water alarming can be as simple as just a regular bilge pump setup with an indicator light at/near the helm.
 
Psneeld, from you 40 or so years in the business I would have expected better replies to the topic.
A two-inch hole that is one foot below waterline can fill a 55-gallon drum in 42.4 seconds!
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You seem to ignore this quote. A 3000 GPH pump will not maybe hold off the water.
How many gallons in the bilge before you notice the effect on the boat? In 5 minutes there are 7- 55 gallon drums worth of water, In 10 minutes 14 barrels.
If you strike bottom and immediately climb into the bilge, sure grab the patch kit. 5-10 min later you will be grouping around in a foot or more of cold water here in PNW.

In my case at least the most experienced onboard is now in the bilge while the crew is freaking out.
 
SteveK said:
Psneeld, from you 40 or so years in the business I would have expected better replies to the topic.

You seem to ignore this quote. A 3000 GPH pump will not maybe hold off the water.
How many gallons in the bilge before you notice the effect on the boat? In 5 minutes there are 7- 55 gallon drums worth of water, In 10 minutes 14 barrels.
If you strike bottom and immediately climb into the bilge, sure grab the patch kit. 5-10 min later you will be grouping around in a foot or more of cold water here in PNW.

In my case at least the most experienced onboard is now in the bilge while the crew is freaking out.
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Maybe my years in the business gives rise to what I do say instead of a lot of "what ifs" and keyboard theories.

The trick is to understand the big picture...not cherry pick pieces.
 
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Respect your years in the business and have personally seen the value of self rescue. We ended up using nothing bought for that purpose. Rope and a grease laden rag.

As a routine I think most people do it the engine check. Check temperatures look at and follow hoses. Look for fuel or coolant leaks. But also every time look at the bilge. Defer to your experience but think at least some flooding isn’t due to collision nor allision but rather a hose or connection slowly losing integrity or a through hull failing. Sure we say I maintain my boat perfectly and miss nothing but wonder how often something like that is the cause.

Unfortunately I agree there’s merit in SteveK’s post. Yes mitigate and eliminate flooding. Accept sometimes that’s not possible. Have training and practice and a mechanism to safely leave. If of limited funds, space or other obstacle rather see money spent on a decent raft and comms. A coastal raft is about the same cost as a good crash pump system and would serve for many of us here. You can replace a boat. You can’t replace people.
 
Not sure where I said taking on water is NOT from primarily holes already in the boat...thus flooding being more easily calculated for because of a foreseeable failure...not collision.

Best way to prevent failure is good maintenance but never implied one shouldn't have that as a minimum pumping capacity...posted that not too many ago.

Also said that any type of holing that was not an already present through hull is a crap shoot to contain and best be prepared.

Again...it is a step by step process where you have to mentally see the steps and know when the next is beyond mitigating or containing and possibly branch over to the abandon ship route. But if possible while not hindering the abandon ship mode.... keep working on the leak stoppage and dewatering as someone did post (and i used to teach with others) the leaving the mothership should be a last resort.

If people want the muti-book volumes I certainly can't/won't post here, I am sorry to disappoint them. I repeatedly say to further investigate just about every subject here because even dozens of threads over years of this forum barely touch the surface of many issues.
 
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psneeld said:
High water alarming can be as simple as just a regular bilge pump setup with an indicator light at/near the helm.
Click to expand...

I wired my "preliminary" bilge pump (the lowest float switch operated pump) with a $3 LED light/buzzer combo. It comes on at 1-2 inches of water in the bilge and makes an annoying beep for 10 or 11 beeps until the switch shuts off. If it kept going, or came on more than every few days, I would know that there's a problem. No need to wait for sluggish handling or secondary pump activation to see that something's amiss.

One nice thing about the buzzer is that it doesn't have to be mounted right on an already cluttered helm. Mine is on the electrical panel, so I only have to look in the companion way to see what the issue is. It is loud enough to be heard on the FB. Easy to mount right by the bilge pump breaker, which should be marked to LEAVE ON. Even better would be a tamper-proof circuit breaker cover like made for home circuit breakers.
 
Marco Flamingo said:
I wired my "preliminary" bilge pump (the lowest float switch operated pump) with a $3 LED light/buzzer combo. It comes on at 1-2 inches of water in the bilge and makes an annoying beep for 10 or 11 beeps until the switch shuts off. If it kept going, or came on more than every few days, I would know that there's a problem. No need to wait for sluggish handling or secondary pump activation to see that something's amiss.

One nice thing about the buzzer is that it doesn't have to be mounted right on an already cluttered helm. Mine is on the electrical panel, so I only have to look in the companion way to see what the issue is. It is loud enough to be heard on the FB. Easy to mount right by the bilge pump breaker, which should be marked to LEAVE ON. Even better would be a tamper-proof circuit breaker cover like made for home circuit breakers.
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As a variation on this, you can use a timer on the buzzer so it only sounds if the pump runs longer than some number of seconds. An ideal warning system in my mind would warn of an abnormally long runtime on a primary pump, or if a secondary runs for more than a couple of seconds (to avoid nuisance alarms if the secondary float switch bounces up for a split second in rough seas).
 
Also in conjunction with the light and buzzer I had, my engine room camera gave a great view of my engine as well as the lowest part of my bilge.

I would have been surprised if any major leak went unnoticed for more than a couple minutes....really a comfort for the miles I travelled every year.

All 3 cost about $150 with wiring/fuses/etc and maybe 2 slow days to install.... pulling wires taking the longest.
 
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