Emergency actions when you hole your boat

[volpe]

I know elements of this have been discussed before, but am curious what others do when they are preparing for the unlikely, but awful situation of a major hole in the hull. Most of you have seen this description of a collision with a whale

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/03/20/sailboat-hits-whale-pacific-rescue/

That quickly sank a boat in the Pacific between the Galapagos and French Polynesia. It looks like the crew did everything they should (including famously staying on and with the boat until you basically step up into the life raft), but the boat sank so quickly they made no attempt to slow the inflow of water through the breach in the hull.

So what would you do and how would you prepare? We keep two things on board based on discussions with others. First is a nerf football. We have good friends who tore out their prop on a rock on the Sunshine Coast in BC (what they describe as a navigational “brain fart”) and began taking water through a baseball size hole. The Canadian Coast Guard showed up within a couple of hours and brought on nerf footballs. They stuffed them into the hole and tore apart another to make for a great seal. Enough that TowBoat could come pick the boat up and tow it all the way to Comox. We now have a nerf football on board.

The second comes from a sailing friend. He takes along a ratty old storm jib. When there is a big hole in the boat you tie off lines on the clews and pull the sail tight over the hole (wrapping it around the hull). That gives you time to do interior measures like stuffing mattresses in the hole and other things. This technique comes from old sailing ships.

So if you are offshore, have no way to get inshore quickly, and have a hole big enough to worry about, other than all the calls to the right people, how do you staunch the flow? I bet there are folks in this forum with real world experience in this. So far, we have been lucky, but we now have a 4’ draft boat, which makes us nervous.

So, most Trawlers have thick hulls and very strong keals on their bottoms up to the water lines. i guess some rockes or jetties could break through, but most likely a holing would be above the waterline from collision with another boat or some floating hazard. carry some wine corks for through hole leakes and maybe some harbor freight tarps with clothes line and weights to tie off on the cleats or other fixed deck points. Sink the tarp onder the hull and lift it up on the oposite side so the tarp would hydraulicly seal from water pressure on the wet side and lower pressure on the dry side. if you plan to offshore, you might want to think about alternate sources of powering muliple bilge pumps. Diesel engine's with coolant valves selectable to have pickups in the bilge or through the hull. 110V high volume sump pump sitting in the bilge with a cheap corrugated hose to throw over the side.

 

[rslifkin]

This is a big question. I have been 550 miles offshore with a boat swamped. The most valuable thing (in addition to good pumps, good discipline (hatches closed etc…) and knowledge (to keep motor running) was a bucket. The proverb that “the best tool to prevent sinking is a terrified person with a bucket” is true.

There are definitely 2 kinds of "best" tools. Those that are technically best for the job, and then there are the tools you know you'll be able to make good use of even if they're not the most optimal. The bucket is definitely in category 2. Plenty of things you can use it for and it takes a whole lot to make a bucket totally unusable.

 

[psneeld]

Most sinking boats you better have about 10 guys with buckets unless it is a very slow or intermittent leak (above deck leaks from rain or wave action....more common than you think) and the distance from scooping in the bilge to pouring it out where it drains overboard is in one easy motion.

I have had to MEDEVAC guys trying to bucket out a boat that were suffering heart attacks... you better be and your heart better be in good shape before even thinking about it.

1 larger or 2 decent little electric bilge pumps and a small fully charged battery will dewater more than the average human unless they are in a small boat with low gunnels.

 

[backinblue]

This is a big question. I have been 550 miles offshore with a boat swamped. The most valuable thing (in addition to good pumps, good discipline (hatches closed etc…) and knowledge (to keep motor running) was a bucket. The proverb that “the best tool to prevent sinking is a terrified person with a bucket” is true.

In addition to the things mentioned above, i did have that same wave bend a bronze hatch on deck and i went up there with the material in the link, and I will never be on a boat with out it

https://www.amazon.com/Stay-Afloat/...ocphy=9004527&hvtargid=pla-771209708321&psc=1

Good luck to everyone with the new season starting in the northeast

Looks like toilet wax ring material for 5x the price

 

[Alisske]

Lmao. I think your absolutely correct! But for 5xs the price of nothing, ill just take the hit.

If you can prove it scientifically, ill smash a bunch of johnny rings into a ziploc for 10$ vs 30$

 

[Hippocampus]

Think about dewatering differently since having the floor boards floating. First and foremost is controlling ingress or at least rate of ingress. Sure get all the pumps on but always keep in mind if it doesn’t come in it doesn’t need to go out. Remember the pumps maybe be inadequate or fail. Getting into a raft is exhausting from the water and some maybe unable to do it. Especially after maning a bucket.
Preparing for disembarking is important. Read Raindancers experience. Other survivors say the same. Often taking a person away from finding the leak or fixing it to man a bucket isn’t the best idea. May increase the risk of sinking or death.

Once the leak is controlled you have time to dewater as long as stability isn’t critically compromised. Even if it takes a day or two as long as you’re floating you have time to await rescue or repair. Agree don’t see a scared man with a bucket as much help except in a rare circumstance. Just had the pleasure of spending time with Webb Chiles. He went from California to the French Polynesians in a 19’ Drascomb yawl. This is an open boat. He was swamped several times. In that setting a bucket is most worthwhile. Open boat, low freeboard, internal floatation. In a trawler not so much.

To my mind the purpose of the pumps on small recreational boats is to give you time to find and fix the leak. And once controlled to prevent further damage ( loss of fresh water, batteries, electronics, stores etc.). We likely won’t have the extremely high output pumps the SARS folks have. A big leak it’s very unlikely you will save the boat . It’s a boat not a ship. We’re mostly amateurs. Mostly past our prime. The thread started out focused on what to do. First get help. Ask for it every way you can. Simultaneously try to find and fix the leak while doing the preliminaries for abandoning if not already prepared (get out ditchbag have raft ready). Sure get pumps going but most importantly find and fix the leak. As soon as you realize it’s a losing battle get in the raft or if appropriate run aground.

I cruise with two aboard. Don’t think I’d want to spend critical minutes setting up a pump or getting it to work or using a bucket. Be curious as to how many recreational boats are saved by their pumps. Sure collision bulkheads, double bottoms and even self rescue by controlling flooding. But remain curious as to how often pump capacity was really the key issue. Sure SARS shows up with help and a monster pump but that’s not you and the admiral. Or you and two or three crew. For small boats have yet to read or hear of a story where those involved said “if only we had more pump capacity on board we could have saved the boat “. Perhaps it’s just my ignorance but find it curious I’ve never heard that. Have you?

Appreciate the posts about pumps. Would like to see more posts about the other aspects of dealing with this situation.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Unless you have a large engine(s) and planning on running hard, better check the average pump flow on that engine pump. Sure it may help, but don't just arbitrarily think it's a lot of water being moved.

These stories are ripe for Monday morning QBing, very easy to say they should have done x, or shouldn't have dine Y.

Agree, on paper an engine as a bilge pump sounds good. I am, however, no fan of using engine raw water pumps for emergency dewatering, this approach requires you to station a crew member at the pick up to make sure it stays clear and doesn't run dry, reminds me of the Poseidon Adventure. If the engine overheats or the pump impeller fails, you are sinking and going nowhere, and you may have no alternator to produce power for pumps.

You are better off installing a separate high capacity pump, you can install a 4000 GPH (24 volt) electric pump, that's more than most engine RW pumps will pump.

As far as dipping vegetarian pizza in ranch dressing...no comment.

More here...

Damage control: https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/the-ethos-of-damage-control/

Anatomy of a sinking: Attached (and there is some Monday AM Quarterbacking here, however, it is constructive).

 

[Hippocampus]

That’s one great article Steve. Heard the same from other sources so endeavor to continue to follow that prep, purchases and strategy exactly. Particularly like you’re stressing the importance of finding the leak first and foremost and controlling it.

 

[psneeld]

Think about dewatering differently since having the floor boards floating. First and foremost is controlling ingress or at least rate of ingress. Sure get all the pumps on but always keep in mind if it doesn’t come in it doesn’t need to go out. Remember the pumps maybe be inadequate or fail. Getting into a raft is exhausting from the water and some maybe unable to do it. Especially after maning a bucket.
Preparing for disembarking is important. Read Raindancers experience. Other survivors say the same. Often taking a person away from finding the leak or fixing it to man a bucket isn’t the best idea. May increase the risk of sinking or death.

Once the leak is controlled you have time to dewater as long as stability isn’t critically compromised. Even if it takes a day or two as long as you’re floating you have time to await rescue or repair. Agree don’t see a scared man with a bucket as much help except in a rare circumstance. Just had the pleasure of spending time with Webb Chiles. He went from California to the French Polynesians in a 19’ Drascomb yawl. This is an open boat. He was swamped several times. In that setting a bucket is most worthwhile. Open boat, low freeboard, internal floatation. In a trawler not so much.

To my mind the purpose of the pumps on small recreational boats is to give you time to find and fix the leak. And once controlled to prevent further damage ( loss of fresh water, batteries, electronics, stores etc.). We likely won’t have the extremely high output pumps the SARS folks have. A big leak it’s very unlikely you will save the boat . It’s a boat not a ship. We’re mostly amateurs. Mostly past our prime. The thread started out focused on what to do. First get help. Ask for it every way you can. Simultaneously try to find and fix the leak while doing the preliminaries for abandoning if not already prepared (get out ditchbag have raft ready). Sure get pumps going but most importantly find and fix the leak. As soon as you realize it’s a losing battle get in the raft or if appropriate run aground.

I cruise with two aboard. Don’t think I’d want to spend critical minutes setting up a pump or getting it to work or using a bucket. Be curious as to how many recreational boats are saved by their pumps. Sure collision bulkheads, double bottoms and even self rescue by controlling flooding. But remain curious as to how often pump capacity was really the key issue. Sure SARS shows up with help and a monster pump but that’s not you and the admiral. Or you and two or three crew. For small boats have yet to read or hear of a story where those involved said “if only we had more pump capacity on board we could have saved the boat “. Perhaps it’s just my ignorance but find it curious I’ve never heard that. Have you?

Appreciate the posts about pumps. Would like to see more posts about the other aspects of dealing with this situation.

I heard it all the time...either a SAR unit pump (not SARS) or a assistance tower pump saved the day as the sinking boat pumps were not keeping up.

Average 40 foot trawler is rare to have even 3 2000gph bilge pumps (probably around 5000gph or less due to installs/voltage drops).

Average SAR or assistance tower pump somewhere near 8-10,000gph.

 

[Mike H]

Having been through a hole in the boat (rudder pulled out), we made the following modifications.

1. Y Valve for raw water intake to engines
2. Several cans of spray foam insulation
3. A few small pieces of plywood or pvc boards
4. Additional high volume bilge pump (we now three)
5. Lights in upper helm that show when the pumps are in operation

Keep things simple. If one has too many things to use, you can't find them when running in semi-panic mode. Or if your incapacitated, someone else has to find where things are.

 

[Nick F]

Pardon me, but what is a "tower" pump?

 

[psneeld]

Pardon me, but what is a "tower" pump?

Are you asking about my reference to "assistance tower pump"?

If so it is a regular Honda or equivalent 2" trash pump that is brough to your boat by an "assistance tower such as Sea Tow or BoatUS.

Depending on what resource the assistance towers send they will have usually a minimum of a 2" pump or bigger or several depending on the situation and what they respond with.

 

[Brooksie]

IMO, a bilge pump isn't going to do much for you in a holing. I have always carried a 3 cornered collision mat w/ dedicated lines attached. That's your best protection IMO.


"The best bilge pump is a scared man with a bucket"

 

[psneeld]

IMO, a bilge pump isn't going to do much for you in a holing. I have always carried a 3 cornered collision mat w/ dedicated lines attached. That's your best protection IMO.


"The best bilge pump is a scared man with a bucket"

Ever try to rig a collision mat in anything but nearly calm water? Not easy even if possible. Dropping a huge headsail is one thing when already up/rigged. Collision mats are a great solution, but really not an easy task in heavy weather so another plan isn't a bad idea.

"The best bilge pump is a scared man with a bucket is just another great TF/boating partial truth.

Sorry but my experience teaches me both of these things are limited in value.

 

[SteveK]

Pardon me, but what is a "tower" pump?

not a tower of a building, but a tow boat operator. Love the English language multi meanings

 

[Portage_Bay]

The best bilge pump is frightened man with a bucket

The best bilge pump is frightened man with a bucket

Not this man on this boat. I estimate a dewatering rate of 1.5 gal a minute with a bucket. If I'm at the point of considering the bucket I should have been well on my way to abandoning ship.

I'll be down on my hands and knees, plunging the bucket into the bilge below me, gain my feet pulling the bucket up, 3 steps up a ladder, 6 ft to the door, dump the bucket. In my dreams I'll make the round trip in a minute. Reality is probably more like two minutes especially as I begin to tire.

I'll use a 5 gal bucket but 3 gal is what I'll handle. Both because I'll be slopping it as I move quickly and because 43 lbs of sea water trip after trip is too much. Filling it to the brim is not a good plan.

I won't even calculate the gal per hour because I can't keep it up for long. I once had to get 350 gal out of the bilge by bucket. Not in a panic, we were safely tied to a dock. It was an education in exhausting physical effort. And I was in my 50s then which from this point of view is a young fit man.

We're a two person crew in our 70s. Best one of us initiates the emergency comms and the other readies the survival craft and needed equipment. Then once those things are taken care of try to stop the inflow.

 

[Gary Brickell]

My mechanic showed me a neat trick to aggressively pump out a flooding bilge in a hurry. With the engine running disconnect the big rubber hose from the raw water intake filter and push that hose into the bilge water. The engine will pump out way more water in a minute than several bilge pumps combined.

 

[OldDan1943]

A. Do something
B. Launch tender
C. Call for help
D. Investigate the leak
E. Gather up the ditch bag
F. Launch life raft.

 

[OldDan1943]

How many folks had a boat under them?

 

[koliver]

A gasoline trash pump may move more water, but as long as either an inverter or genset is still usable, I'd count on an electric pump to work. A gas pump will need careful storage and periodic exercise to have any confidence it'll start when needed.

After a fire in 2000, I carried a gas trash pump for several years. Not only was it a pain to keep properly maintained so it would start on the first pull, but storing a gasoline powered pump safely was a challenge, as it was fugly and had to be out where it would be seen, in order to remove the possibility of gas fumes getting below decks. I even sewed a cover out of blue sunbrella for it. Eventually, after several years of never using it, I took it off the boat. A 110v trash pump would still be aboard if I had chosen that option.

 

[backinblue]

not a tower of a building, but a tow boat operator. Love the English language multi meanings

Minor thread drift but I also did not read "tower" as someone providing a tow. A pet peeve of mine is "biweekly". A practically useless word.

bi·week·ly

adjective

Done, produced, or occurring every two weeks or twice a week.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

That’s one great article Steve. Heard the same from other sources so endeavor to continue to follow that prep, purchases and strategy exactly. Particularly like you’re stressing the importance of finding the leak first and foremost and controlling it.

Thanks, when I ran a boat yard I saw my share of sinkers, and almost sinkers, it left a lasting impression.

My gearhead rule of thumb for capacity, 1000 GPH of pump for every 10 feet of boat (or 100 GPH per foot).

On the subject of pumps...

Short version: https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/bilge-pump-systems-design-and-installation/

Long version: https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/BilgePumps147_05.pdf

 

[OldDan1943]

At my current location, the marina did nothing, other than call the boat owners, when 3 boats sunk.
I can only guess the management was afraid they would be sued because they did not ‘do enough’ to prevent the boats from sinking.

 

[Hippocampus]

Thanks PS. Reading the comments most small trawlers won’t carry a sufficient crash pump so will be dependent upon SAR or a tow service. So we’re back to Steve’s excellent article.

Think there’s a divide depending upon boats location and size/location of the hole or degree of downflooding. A suitable pump will show up and be running before the boat is lost or it won’t. For slow ingress what’s reasonable to put on a recreational boat maybe sufficient until help arrives or not. For an offshore boat once outside helicopter range so dependent upon surface vessels self rescue becomes more important. Getting a suitable crash pump is less likely. In any case Steve’s stressing controlling the leak is first and foremost.

But for both coastal and blue water you can’t depend upon pumps to save you. I get blowback for carrying a raft as I’m now coastal. I know I’ll last maybe 15m- 30 m in the waters of Maine even in the summer. I know it takes me forever to get into a Gumby. What struck me about the Raindancer story was the boat was totally sunk, just gone, in 15m. I watched a motor cruiser go up in flames by the Jamestown bridge. It was uninhabitable in just a few brief minutes.

Be curious how many here carry a raft? Gumby suits? Immersion suits? Epirbs?, PLBs? How many already have or will shortly buy a combo unit?

 

[Steve DAntonio]

I don't recall, was the make/model of the vessel that sank given anywhere? Sounds like the whale may have stove in the strut. Hull thickness counts in cases like this. The owner's tarp fothering attempt was noble, but over a strut/shaft that would be very difficult.

 

[rslifkin]

I don't recall, was the make/model of the vessel that sank given anywhere? Sounds like the whale may have stove in the strut. Hull thickness counts in cases like this. The owner's tarp fothering attempt was noble, but over a strut/shaft that would be very difficult.

Raindancer was a Kelly Peterson 44.

 

[psneeld]

As far as trash pump size...having worked with probably some where's between a couple dozen and maybe a hundred... my 40 foot Albin could have easily had one onboard and stored safely with gas, out of sight, out of weather, and convenient to use with just a couple of simple projects.

So I know it is possible and somewhat practicable if you decide one would be an asset...if one isn't in your plans...then fine, but I just don't see it as a "big deal or bother"...maintenance wise or storing to just let it go as "not practical.

SAR and salvage boats carry them for a reason...to me probably not a bad idea to already have one (or a similar electric/hydraulic setup) already on board. On the little 26 foot open Shamrock I drove for assistance towing, in addition to the boats installed bilge pumps, I used to carry a gas trash pump, a 4000 gph salvage 12V electric, pump, a single 2000 gph bilge pump and a 500 gph bilge pump with float for those really tight bilge areas.

No I never got around to installing one on my boat, my plans for the Bahamas evaporated before my first planned trip. So for annual snowbirding, I trusted my maintenance and kept to inland waters as much as possible...but like I said...plenty of places along the ACIW you can sink just the same as offshore. At least some of those places running aground is an option.

Survival gear should always trump extra pumping capacity as some leaks no amount of pumping will stem, but with all the BS people toss around here about what is safe and what isn't..... is another boat buck or two for a great pump installed well that big a deal? For those of us that are handy and creative...the cost could be less than $1000.

 

[rslifkin]

As far as trash pump size...having worked with probably some where's between a couple dozen and maybe a hundred... my 40 foot Albin could have easily had one onboard and stored safely with gas, out of sight, out of weather, and convenient to use with just a couple of simple projects.

So I know it is possible and somewhat practicable if you decide one would be an asset...if one isn't in your plans...then fine, but I just don't see it as a "big deal or bother"...maintenance wise or storing to just let it go as "not practical. SAR and salvage boats carry them for a reason...to me probably not a bad idea to already have one (or a similar electric/hydraulic setup) already on board. On the little 26 foot open Shamrock I drove for assistance towing, in addition to the boats installed bilge pumps, I used to carry a gas trash pump, a 4000 gph salvage 12V electric, pump, a single 2000 gph bilge pump and a 500 gph bilge pump with float for those really tight bilge areas.

No I never got around to it as I trusted my maintenance and kept to inland waters as much as possible...but like I said...plenty of places along the ACIW you can sink just the same as offshore. At least some of those places running aground is an option.

Having a trash pump on board is a good idea, but I'd lean towards electric / hydraulic for that application. Just because it's easier to make sure it'll work every time. Storage issues aside, a gas powered one will need to be exercised every few weeks, then carb drained and stored again. Ideally you'd fog the carb instead of draining it, but that can potentially make it hard to start due to the spark plug, etc. being oily. Keeping it exercised and ready to start every time is more likely on an assistance tow boat I'd think, and they're more likely to have more than 1 trash pump in case of a failure to start.



It's definitely not an idea that should be written off. Just one that has to be fully understood, as it's not a "stow it and forget it" item if you want to be sure it'll actually work when it's needed.

 

[Nick F]

not a tower of a building, but a tow boat operator. Love the English language multi meanings

Thanks - I was stuck on the "tower of a building" !

 

[psneeld]

Having a trash pump on board is a good idea, but I'd lean towards electric / hydraulic for that application. Just because it's easier to make sure it'll work every time. Storage issues aside, a gas powered one will need to be exercised every few weeks, then carb drained and stored again. Ideally you'd fog the carb instead of draining it, but that can potentially make it hard to start due to the spark plug, etc. being oily. Keeping it exercised and ready to start every time is more likely on an assistance tow boat I'd think, and they're more likely to have more than 1 trash pump in case of a failure to start.



It's definitely not an idea that should be written off. Just one that has to be fully understood, as it's not a "stow it and forget it" item if you want to be sure it'll actually work when it's needed.

If stored outside, could have it run on propane. Especially for those that don't cruise fulltime and are away from the boat for long periods.... or the electric/hydraulic units certainly are strong possibles.

Plus if you weekly run it, no need to drain the carb., just stabilize and replace the stored fuel every couple of months by cycling it to other gasoline users.

Once every 2 even 3 weeks seemed fine for the pumps I kept under outdoor hatches on a very wet boat. Hope my old boss doesn't read this as weekly was the schedule....