Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-11-2021, 02:25 PM   #1
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar
 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,419
Electric steering

Has anyone converted from a hydraulic helm to electric?
__________________
Cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2021, 09:57 AM   #2
Veteran Member
 
City: Olympia
Vessel Name: Rendezvous
Vessel Model: Blue water 40
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyo View Post
Has anyone converted from a hydraulic helm to electric?
i looked at it on my last boat, but the selection of hardware was limited. there was some new stuff coming out, but the prices were stupid crazy. i ended up going electro/hydraulic, with a lever in the helm and a hydraulic power unit in the engine room.
is there a system you're looking at?
Bmarler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2021, 12:29 PM   #3
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar
 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,419
Not yet. Looking for suggestions.
__________________
Cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2021, 01:01 PM   #4
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,058
I looked at all sorts of options about a year ago and ended rebuilding my Hynautic system and replacing the primary lines from helm to steer cylinder to reduce effort. Really liked some of the stuff Kobelt and Accusteer offer, but it's very pricey. I essentially drive my boat electric over hydraulic through the autopilot. Would like to have removed the hydraulic helm and all the plumbing with just just the pump and cylinder in the lazarette. Ultimately couldn't get comfortable with giving up the redundancy of a mechanical helm.

It would be interesting to know if electric or hydraulic rudder movement is more reliable and life expectancy.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2021, 05:47 PM   #5
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar
 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
I looked at all sorts of options about a year ago and ended rebuilding my Hynautic system and replacing the primary lines from helm to steer cylinder to reduce effort. Really liked some of the stuff Kobelt and Accusteer offer, but it's very pricey. I essentially drive my boat electric over hydraulic through the autopilot. Would like to have removed the hydraulic helm and all the plumbing with just just the pump and cylinder in the lazarette. Ultimately couldn't get comfortable with giving up the redundancy of a mechanical helm.



It would be interesting to know if electric or hydraulic rudder movement is more reliable and life expectancy.



Ted


I think my Raymarine pump can turn the rudder faster than my helm. Electric/hydraulic seems to make more sense to me. I also want to raise the headroom in the shower under my lower helm.
__________________
Cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2021, 06:14 PM   #6
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyo View Post
I think my Raymarine pump can turn the rudder faster than my helm. Electric/hydraulic seems to make more sense to me. I also want to raise the headroom in the shower under my lower helm.
You're in a great position. You could remove your lower helm, gain the space you desire, and maintain the upper helm for a redundant system.

My Simrad AP20 system turns 20 years old next year. Have considered replacing it, but can't find a remote I like as well as the AP21. The knob is my steering wheel for electric over hydraulic.

Click image for larger version

Name:	16340802917631798346560386152286.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	178.6 KB
ID:	122031

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2021, 12:05 AM   #7
Scraping Paint
 
City: Ocean park
Vessel Name: Tug life
Vessel Model: Nordic tug 26
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 201
I’m in the middle of removing my helm now, my last boat had a jog lever hooked directly to the steering pump, it didn’t run through the computer ,found I didn’t use it very much ,I used the dial on my control head mostly ,this auto pilot has a nice dual function jog lever So I’ll probably install a toggle switch for emergency back up directly to the pump
Scooby5959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2021, 09:43 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
mcarthur's Avatar
 
City: Canberra
Vessel Name: Blu Emu
Vessel Model: Ligure 50' aluminium power catamaran
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 219
I'm interested - running the hydraulics from the flybridge and forward helm all the way back to dual rudders (we have a cat). Would be lovely to clean that up, but haven't got any answers on a) whether it really is better with modern electrics/electronics, and b) best product. Listening...
mcarthur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2021, 10:30 PM   #9
Guru
 
Jeff F's Avatar
 
City: Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Escapade
Vessel Model: 50` US Navy Utility trawler conversion
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,188
Most folks who don't have hydraulics use a linear drive. I have a Raymarine type 2 on my sailboat attached to a short tiller on the rudder shaft. It's just as effective as a hydraulic system in my experience, and those drives have a good track record.

My power boat has the same unit as OC Diver and I rarely touch the wheel. I think drive by wire is entirely feasible.
Jeff F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2021, 06:44 AM   #10
Guru
 
City: Newport, R.I.
Vessel Name: Hippocampus
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 1,273
New to us boat has Kobelt. It’s different than prior boat. At very slow maneuvering speed because it goes through several microprocessors there’s a very brief lag. I noticed it coming from Whitlock. Others haven’t as it’s so brief. System is old. Don’t know if that’s true with current generation devices.
Hippocampus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2021, 07:45 AM   #11
Veteran Member
 
City: Olympia
Vessel Name: Rendezvous
Vessel Model: Blue water 40
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 88
the dometic optimus system looks pretty nice. pretty expensive, but seems pretty simple. rudder feedback built into the cylinder/actuator.
https://www.dometic.com/en-us/outdoo...ylinder-246356
Bmarler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2021, 07:55 AM   #12
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Walkabout Creek
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,845
I'm not aware of any electric system. Only hydro-electric, and there are a variety of them. A linear drive like hippo describes might work, but those are more typically designed to provide AP control over a tiller boat.


HyPro makes a hydro-electric system. The hydraulics are all in the laz including a hydraulic power pack. Then the helms have a wheel, but it's all electronic sensing and control back to the system in the laz. I know a couple of people with them and they love them, but I expect they are pretty $$.


I think the most cost effective solution is just to use you AP for steering, adding a follow-up or non-followup/jog lever. You already have 90%, if not 100% of it in your boat already.


The objection to all hydraulic seems to be the plumbing runs to the helms. I couldn't agree more, and considered eliminating them on our build and just using the AP system with hydraulics in the laz. But I reached the same conclusion as Ted, wanting to keep it as a backup.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2021, 08:02 AM   #13
Guru
 
City: Owings, Md
Vessel Name: Graceland
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 MK1
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 724
I suspect the market for all electric steering will grow as steer by wire is gaining traction for large outboards.
Gdavid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2021, 08:30 AM   #14
Guru
 
Portage_Bay's Avatar
 
City: Coupeville Wa.
Vessel Name: Pelorus
Vessel Model: Californian 42 LRC
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,453
It think much depends upon where you boat and your boat. If you boat in protected waters and have twins then steering loss is an annoyance. A major annoyance but you won't likely come to any harm. I boat where steering loss could be a very serious incident. With all the troubles we hear about on electronic controlled engines, and I've experienced a few, I want the very reliable hydrualic helms with an easy to use autopilot. I've long used Simrad APs and do almost 100% of my steering with the knob. I'm sure other APs have smiliar capabilities.

Nothing is 100% fail proof. Hydraulic steering comes close if inspected and maintained. The system will give you warnings of pending problems if you pay attention. When I notice leaks, corrosion or poor performance I attend to it. Electronic / electric failures too often present themselves without warning. Now it works, not it doesn't.
__________________
Some things are worth doing simply because they are worth doing.
Portage_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2021, 08:44 AM   #15
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,058
While there are electrical drive units that are targeted toward mechanically steered boats from Raymarine and Simrad, the recommended vessel size limits at about 20,000 pounds. In hindsight, I wished I had known about the rotary (chain) drive system from Raymarine when equipping my charter boat. It would have been far easier to install and significantly less expensive.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2021, 05:26 PM   #16
Guru
 
City: Newport, R.I.
Vessel Name: Hippocampus
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 1,273
Whitlock is a direct linkage system used on sailboats of all sizes including very large ones. An arm on the rudder post goes to a ss rod. That rod goes to an arm on the rod that ascends to the helm wheel. Two gears at 90 degrees there. One at top of rod. The other very short rod to the center of the helm wheel There’s no play at all when adjusted. Most bwb sail has a separate arm on the rudder post for the AP. It’s inconvenient in that the wheel turns when on AP so a potential hazard. But great as there’s no cables, hydraulics or other things to fail. Very bulletproof and great feel unlike a worm gear. . As good as a tiller but you have a mechanical advantage.
Hippocampus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2021, 09:04 PM   #17
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar
 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff F View Post
Most folks who don't have hydraulics use a linear drive. I have a Raymarine type 2 on my sailboat attached to a short tiller on the rudder shaft. It's just as effective as a hydraulic system in my experience, and those drives have a good track record.

My power boat has the same unit as OC Diver and I rarely touch the wheel. I think drive by wire is entirely feasible.


My thoughts exactly. I also have the same Raymarine setup.
__________________
Cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 12:06 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Snapdragon III's Avatar
 
City: Kenmore
Vessel Name: Snapdragon
Vessel Model: Custom 56' Skookum trawler
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 197
Wasn't it an autopilot failure that grounded the Evergreen, and blocked the Suez Canal? I often steer with the little jog lever on my autopilot remote, but I would not want to give up the helm. There are plenty of times when you would be on the rocks in seconds if your autopilot freaked out for some reason and was non responsive.
Snapdragon III is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2021, 06:10 PM   #19
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar
 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,419
Not talking about autopilot steering. Everyone of your cars are steering at 80mph with electric steering boxesIím thinking itís time for our trawlers to join the 21st century.
__________________
Cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2021, 08:53 PM   #20
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,058
I wonder if part of the reason we don't see linear drives replacing hydraulic cylinders has to do with a relief mechanisms. Most steering system have a pressure relief valve that by passes fluid from one side of a hydraulic cylinder to the other. If something strikes the rudder and the pressure in the system on one side of the cylinder exceeds the safe limit, fluid is passed to the other side and the rudder moves. That's probably tougher to do mechanically with rudders requiring great force to move them.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012