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Old 08-19-2017, 04:18 PM   #21
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A friend warned me not to swim in marinas because of electric shock. I certainly try not to swim in any marina. I have been in a marina where I lost my zincs in days which normally would last more than a year.
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:29 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
WOW!!! Where in the world is industry going with buzz words.

GFI-------ground fault interrupt.............which most everybody understands

ELCI------equipment leakage current interrupter

RCD------residual current device

RCBO----residual current breaker with overload protection



CRAZY!!!! All variations of a GFI. Wait awhile, somebody is sure to respond with something such as: "no sir, you don't understand. The benefits provided by the C$%B apply only to ....." Again---crazy
There's also "GFCI" which stands for "Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter". Same as GFI.
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:32 PM   #23
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A friend warned me not to swim in marinas because of electric shock. I certainly try not to swim in any marina. I have been in a marina where I lost my zincs in days which normally would last more than a year.
Well, there are many reasons not to swim in marinas and most marinas won't allow you to do so.

We've noticed a difference in life of anodes based on where we were.
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:34 PM   #24
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A friend warned me not to swim in marinas because of electric shock. I certainly try not to swim in any marina. I have been in a marina where I lost my zincs in days which normally would last more than a year.
Another good reason not to swim in marinas is the danger of getting hit by moving boats or causing boaters to have to make emergency maneuvers with the real possibility of damage to boats or docks.

We had that problem in our marina once with some guests and they had to get a good stern talking to. "Not nice" words were spoken.
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:44 PM   #25
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I have a Square-D QO distribution panel, twin 30 amp with a split neutral buss, so it was easy to add 4 circuits to be AFCI-GFCI breakers or just GFCI.
So currently,
water heater is GFCI
AC heat pump is AFCI-GFCI (includes the AC water pump)
Microwave is AFCI-GFCI (on its own outlet)
All outlets are AFCI-GFCI

forward cabin heater non GFCI
aft cabin heater non GFCI
fridge non GFCI
leaves one breaker location unused.

I can hook up to a GFCI extension the entire boat from the pedestal, and no nuisance tripping. That is a good test to see if your AC system is tight.

Electric system handles my Onan gen set with no nuisance trips.
My 3000 watt inverter has a 20 amp GFCI outlet on it's output. I discovered Hubbell and Leviton work fine with MSW inverters, no buzzing.

30 ma ELCI is enough power to kill you, it is really only equipment protection, not personal protection GFCI set to 6 ma trip, better than nothing I suppose.
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Old 08-19-2017, 09:27 PM   #26
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Here are 76 recent posts in this forum related to this topic.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/big-marina-rewire-new-code-30314.html
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Old 08-20-2017, 09:02 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
I'm not so sure it is so crazy.
Very few people understand ac power systems yet we all use it.
There was even a joke made about wiring in this thread (tongue in cheek???).
The reality is that this is no joking matter and people die from electrocution regularly.
I've seen things in ac boat wiring that made my hair stand on end!
No, I am ok with the safety devices on our boat.
Bruce




I believe you misunderstood my post. It had zero to do with safety and a lot to do with vernacular.
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Old 08-20-2017, 12:39 PM   #28
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We had an ESD a couple of weeks ago where a 15 year old boy jumped in the water and didn't resurface. Two of the firemen who responded also got shocked but were not seriously injured. It took awhile to shut off power to an adjacent pump station before they could enter the water to search for the body.


That brought up a question during the course of many discussions about ESD:
Why don't fish, beavers, otters and water birds (geese and ducks) have ESD problems?
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Old 08-20-2017, 01:56 PM   #29
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We just had our docks tested by a master Electrician who is also a member of our club. We found 4 areas that were suspect where current was detected near our aluminum safety ladders and turned off the 4 nearest boats at each until we isolated the problem vessels. The floating shock alert sensor is easy to use and only $150 at home depot. A must have for any Club or Marina especially in fresh water.

I looked into the video on this... showing its use in a pool. Seems you'd need to walk all areas of the dock to learn if there was elect current any place in the water?? Not very efficient if that is so.

My question...[regarding fresh water]: If you reach off finger dock to rinse hands in water... and there were electrical current in water... would it shock you to death?
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:09 PM   #30
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I looked into the video on this... showing its use in a pool. Seems you'd need to walk all areas of the dock to learn if there was elect current any place in the water?? Not very efficient if that is so.

My question...[regarding fresh water]: If you reach off finger dock to rinse hands in water... and there were electrical current in water... would it shock you to death?
Shock you, perhaps. To death, no.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:09 PM   #31
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I looked into the video on this... showing its use in a pool. Seems you'd need to walk all areas of the dock to learn if there was elect current any place in the water?? Not very efficient if that is so.

My question...[regarding fresh water]: If you reach off finger dock to rinse hands in water... and there were electrical current in water... would it shock you to death?
Wash your hands one at a time.

Seriously, I can't answer your question with authority but it's the electric current passing through your heart that does the damage. One of the safety rules of working on something that may be hot is, keep one hand in your pocket. Of course that doesn't work if you're standing in a puddle.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:12 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
I'm not so sure it is so crazy.
Very few people understand ac power systems yet we all use it.
There was even a joke made about wiring in this thread (tongue in cheek???).
The reality is that this is no joking matter and people die from electrocution regularly.
I've seen things in ac boat wiring that made my hair stand on end!
No, I am ok with the safety devices on our boat.
Bruce
I cringe every time I see a "how do I wire my boat?" post on a web forum. My thought is, if you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing your own boat wiring.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:19 PM   #33
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I cringe every time I see a "how do I wire my boat?" post on a web forum. My thought is, if you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing your own boat wiring.
DIY overload sometimes. I admire those of you with such DIY talent and love. However, when I see some who are clearly over their heads start to mess with electricity, on boats, on docks, or in homes and businesses, it scares me.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:24 PM   #34
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It took our electrician almost 3 hours to do the whole dock slowly checking the ladders and other points. It is an aluminum framed dock with aluminum safety ladders. This sensor reacts to millivolts. when he got a hit he would then turn off the adjacent boats in order then the power to the whole quadrant to isolate the problem. The two older boats found with hot wiring have been turned off and their owners informed that they need to repair faults prior to a reconnect with our electrician present to retest.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:32 PM   #35
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We had an ESD a couple of weeks ago where a 15 year old boy jumped in the water and didn't resurface. Two of the firemen who responded also got shocked but were not seriously injured. It took awhile to shut off power to an adjacent pump station before they could enter the water to search for the body.


That brought up a question during the course of many discussions about ESD:
Why don't fish, beavers, otters and water birds (geese and ducks) have ESD problems?
Those animals especially fish can sense electric currents and I think either swim away. Or they shock a little and drift away then recover.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:59 PM   #36
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Those animals especially fish can sense electric currents and I think either swim away. Or they shock a little and drift away then recover.
Hence the reason the electric fence on the Illinois River works.
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Old 08-20-2017, 04:17 PM   #37
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Thanks. That's kind of what I figured but I wanted to ask those of you who know a LOT more about this than I do.
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Old 08-20-2017, 06:25 PM   #38
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DIY overload sometimes. I admire those of you with such DIY talent and love. However, when I see some who are clearly over their heads start to mess with electricity, on boats, on docks, or in homes and businesses, it scares me.
You are light years ahead of me. I don't even believe in electricity.
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Old 08-20-2017, 06:33 PM   #39
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Most of it isnt rocket science.

Certain principles are different than dirt electrical and must be understood. Follow the rules for the rest and most circuits have ready made diagrams to follow to make it easy....if you are so inclined to look up, study and learn.

Beginner boaters probably shouldn't rewire a boat. But someone who has been studying the principles for years and asks good questions is probably more capable than the yard techs who would work on your boat that aren't ABYC cetified...or even the qualified ones possibly.
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Old 08-20-2017, 06:38 PM   #40
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Most of it isnt rocket science.

Certain principles are different than dirt electrical and must be understood. Follow the rules for the rest and most circuits have ready made diagrams to follow to maje it easy....if you are so inclined to look up, study and learn.

Electrical circuits have always been a mystery to me. I have never understood something as basic as how one light can be switched by more than one switch in your home. I finally decided that I'm too stupid to understand circuits so try to avoid them whenever possible. Now, it is true that I traced down a dead short in my boats AC circuit, but I think that had more to do with luck than anything else.
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