Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-29-2020, 04:51 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Ralsy's Avatar
 
City: Sunshine Coast
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 214
Electric magnetic field heath problems and sea sickness

In alot of boats, passengers sit very close to electrical systems (such as batteries) of significant power, usually for a considerable amount of time. Apparently the currents achieved in these systems and the short distances between the power devices and the passengers mean that the latter could be exposed to relevant magnetic fields. In my case approx 1000 amp 12v battery bank underneath the main cabins bed, around 12 inches below the bottom of the mattress. I'm wondering if the hazards of magnetic field exposure or electromagnetic radiation (EMR) must be taken into account?
Is it usual to put such a large storage of batteries under the bed you potentially spend 1/3 of your day on?
The previous owner of this particular boat has told the broker he doesn't want anything more to do with the boat as all his family members get sea sick on the boat and most other people aswell if they come aboard for any extended lenght of time.
The sea sickness could be enhanced by the relatively narrow beam to length of the boat aswell as the heavy steel superstructure which could make it a little rolley at times. It's a 55ft long, 15ft beam, 45 tonne steel displacement pilothouse cruiser. There is a stability report available on the boat which stipulates the necessary requirements for when cruising such as making sure fresh water tank is full, gray and black are empty, centre fuel tank is empty, the other 4 are balanced except for tank number 1 which needs to have 350 litres of fuel less than tank 4. The boat does have Naiad Stabilizers but still thinking it could potentially be quite rolley.
So there are 2 questions,
1 - could the close proximity of the batteries be a potential health problem OR add to the sea sickness of passengers through the EMF on a steel boat?
2 - could the build of the boat as described be a problem in anything but smooth cruising conditions?
I have been for a sea trial but unfortunately conditions were smooth.
Ralsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 05:20 PM   #2
Guru
 
MYTraveler's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralsy View Post
So there are 2 questions,
1 - could the close proximity of the batteries be a potential health problem OR add to the sea sickness of passengers through the EMF on a steel boat?
2 - could the build of the boat as described be a problem in anything but smooth cruising conditions?
I have been for a sea trial but unfortunately conditions were smooth.
1. I don't see how proximity to the batteries could have any health impact unless you are breathing charging gasses. Also, batteries do not create electro magnetic fields -- only electrons moving through a circuit do. And those fields are not very powerful (in relative terms) -- If a compass still points north, then the earth's magnetic field is demonstrably more powerful.

2. It does sound like the boat lacks stability (and its narrow beam certainly can't help in that regard). I recommend that you sea trial it.
MYTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 05:31 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Ralsy's Avatar
 
City: Sunshine Coast
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 214
Thanks for your reply.
Ralsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 05:44 PM   #4
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,977
Adhering to all of those tank filling restrictions is not feasible in the real world on a day-to-day cruising basis.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 06:20 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Ralsy's Avatar
 
City: Sunshine Coast
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano View Post
Adhering to all of those tank filling restrictions is not feasible in the real world on a day-to-day cruising basis.
Yeah, doesn't sound practicable. Spoke to broker who advised, he'd just fill the tanks and go. Not sure why he wouldn't take on board the recommendations from the stability report. Is it normal for a boat to have a stability report?
Ralsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 06:44 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
gsholz's Avatar
 
City: Out and About
Vessel Model: Sold-GB 52 Europa, Queenship 59, Tolly 45
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 484
Re health risks, a battery at rest has no appreciable magnetic field. Once you start pulling current or charging them, there will be a weak magnetic field around the conductors. The field diminishes with the square of the distance.

The particle that carries the electromagnetic force is the photon. A photon's energy is determined by its frequency, i.e. how quickly it moves back and forth. You need to get up into the Giga (Billion) Hertz range (e.g. microwave, radar) or way beyond (e.g. UV light) before you can harm living things. Electromagnetic waves of all frequencies have been all around us since the beginning of time.

Re stability report. Most likely, the stability report just lists the conditions under which the testing or calculation was performed. It does not mean the boat is more or less stable in other configuration. It just was not tested there.
gsholz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 06:47 PM   #7
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,605
I would never want to own a boat that had so many stipulations needed to acheive acceptable stability. What good is a center fuel tank if using it makes the boat unstable ? Was something significan't added to the boat later in life, like a fishing tower or flybridge ?
Benthic2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 06:56 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Ralsy's Avatar
 
City: Sunshine Coast
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 214
Here are a few pages on this boats operating procedures.
Attached Thumbnails
20200630_094934.jpg   20200630_094904.jpg   20200624_121300.jpg   20200624_121253.jpg   20200624_121246.jpg  

20200624_121237.jpg   20200624_121232.jpg   20200624_121226.jpg   20200624_121221.jpg   20200624_121214.jpg  

Ralsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 07:02 PM   #9
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
There are a lot of people with pacemakers living on boats suffering no ill affects.
Maybe the owners friends get sea sick very easily.
If you are that worried about it, start looking at other boats or consider a RV.
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
OldDan1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 07:09 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Ralsy's Avatar
 
City: Sunshine Coast
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDan1943 View Post
There are a lot of people with pacemakers living on boats suffering no ill affects.
Maybe the owners friends get sea sick very easily.
If you are that worried about it, start looking at other boats or consider a RV.
Didn't know that RVs float?
Ralsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 07:48 PM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
55’ with a beam of 15’ seems very narrow to me. I had a 46’ that had a beam of 16’ and it was very stable.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 07:53 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Oldersalt's Avatar
 
City: San francisco
Vessel Name: Pacific Star
Vessel Model: 1990 Grand Banks 32 #834
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 204
If you are worried about the effects of EMR from your 12-volt batteries, I hope you are not using a cell phone, or even getting near to one.
Oldersalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 08:37 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Ralsy's Avatar
 
City: Sunshine Coast
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 214
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldersalt View Post
If you are worried about the effects of EMR from your 12-volt batteries, I hope you are not using a cell phone, or even getting near to one.
Not really sure, but feel reasured that most people think it's not an issue.
Ralsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 09:06 PM   #14
Guru
 
Lou_tribal's Avatar
 
City: Quebec
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,374
At least you have a good operating manual that you can update based on your experience with the boat.

L
Lou_tribal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 09:50 PM   #15
Guru
 
GoneFarrell's Avatar
 
City: Columbia City, OR & Mulege, BCS
Vessel Name: Imagine
Vessel Model: Farrell 34
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 846
If the boat ever turned turtle and insurance found this thread, would they pay up?

Keep looking, plenty of other boats out there without stability agenda to be concerned about.
GoneFarrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 09:57 PM   #16
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Vessel Name: Circuit Breaker
Vessel Model: 2021..22' Duffy Cuddy cabin
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,691
Quote:
=GoneFarrell;894447Keep looking, plenty of other boats out there without stability agenda to be concerned about.
__________________
Done with diesel power boats! Have fallen in love with all electric!
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 09:58 PM   #17
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar
 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,299
People have been getting sea sick long before batteries were invented.
__________________
Parks Masterson
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supply
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 10:16 PM   #18
TF Site Team
 
Insequent's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
55’ with a beam of 15’ seems very narrow to me. I had a 46’ that had a beam of 16’ and it was very stable.
My boat is stable, and has length of 50' and beam of 15'6". I don't see the length to beam ratio of the boat in question being unusual.

I have Naiad's and they keep the boat flat underway in most conditions. If they are sized appropriately and operating then no-one should get seasick underway.

At anchor it sounds like flopper stoppers are needed. I'll also be adding those before my next Great Barrier Reef trip where you often find yourself trying to anchor in adverse conditions. eg wind at 90° to tidal current, waves from 15-20kn winds topping the reef at high tide and generating roll for a few hours.

The tank balancing & loading regime, together with an apparent tendency to make crew seasick, heavy steel superstructure, and existence of a stability report all suggest to me that the boat needs a bunch of ballast. Was ballast removed by someone at some point? Best to get an NA to use the stability report, plus further tests if required (eg inclining test), to get that sorted as to how much ballast and where. It might not cost that much to do.
__________________
Brian
Insequent is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 10:54 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Ralsy's Avatar
 
City: Sunshine Coast
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insequent View Post
My boat is stable, and has length of 50' and beam of 15'6". I don't see the length to beam ratio of the boat in question being unusual.

I have Naiad's and they keep the boat flat underway in most conditions. If they are sized appropriately and operating then no-one should get seasick underway.

At anchor it sounds like flopper stoppers are needed. I'll also be adding those before my next Great Barrier Reef trip where you often find yourself trying to anchor in adverse conditions. eg wind at 90° to tidal current, waves from 15-20kn winds topping the reef at high tide and generating roll for a few hours.

The tank balancing & loading regime, together with an apparent tendency to make crew seasick, heavy steel superstructure, and existence of a stability report all suggest to me that the boat needs a bunch of ballast. Was ballast removed by someone at some point? Best to get an NA to use the stability report, plus further tests if required (eg inclining test), to get that sorted as to how much ballast and where. It might not cost that much to do.
Ballast is apparently there. Full oil filled keel with added lead ballast.
Ralsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 10:56 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Ralsy's Avatar
 
City: Sunshine Coast
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 214
I see many steel boats with aluminium super structure. Must be because they're trying to lower center of gravity to increase stability.
Ralsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012