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Old 11-04-2017, 01:45 PM   #21
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Land and water seem so similar but are so different. I believe every new car built will be either electric or hybrid in a few years. The volume and visability of land vehicles means they come first. It's easy to see the inroads already made. Boats and ships are at least two decades behind. We're not even to the point when Toyota first offered hybrids.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:53 PM   #22
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There has been a guy on this forum who has a solar cat that has been operational for years and cruising the keys last I thought....and very happy with it.

Sure solar powered boats are in the future. So are a load of batteries and electric motors that show promise. Making the solar boat a bigger reality.

For now if what most here say is the least expensive part of boating, fuel....... and oil comoanies are promising new finds every year bigger than the middle east.....I am content with a small diesel putting out way less emmissions than lots of other non essential sources.
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Old 11-04-2017, 02:03 PM   #23
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David,
Very well put and as far as I see it good numbers. Ithought the plug-ins would cost about as much as a Cadilac after the electrons were purchased. Would that be much different back east.

I’m a poor man driving an 06 Avalon that somehow manages to get 25mpg (according to the car) and has on tap 268hp. Far more power than I need but I love the comfort and drivability. Automatic shifting is even perfect. And the fuel consumption is absolutely no problem. Five mpg less than my previous Jetta but the difference seems like flystuff.

Soon we are going to drive up Vancouver Is at least to PR and I wonder how much of a hassle finding charging stations would be? Also I would imagine plug-in stations would charge more for electrons than your local PUD. And at times I would probably have to sit in my car while it was charging.

All and all it looks like they are more practical and useful than I thought. I Nissan Leaf may do for my needs if they have a 150mi range. What does one do when the batt goes dead? For now though I think I’d be happier driving my Avalon.

And yes the batts on the e-cars do seem to have a relatively good record. But what would/will we do w all those spent batts when e-cars become the norm? An incredible number of batts will need to be recycled or disposed of. Man’s garbage is just about unmanageable as it is.
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Old 11-04-2017, 02:23 PM   #24
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Land and water seem so similar but are so different. I believe every new car built will be either electric or hybrid in a few years. The volume and visability of land vehicles means they come first. It's easy to see the inroads already made. Boats and ships are at least two decades behind. We're not even to the point when Toyota first offered hybrids.
That might be a bit of a stretch

17,550,000 vehicles were sold in the US in 2016. 159,000 were EV and 347,000 were hybrid.

In perspective, Ford sells more F-Series pickup trucks in 2 months than all combined EV and hybrid annual sales.

A large percentage of the EVs were purchased by government agencies.

I have nothing against hybrids or EVs, but they don't meet my personal requirements. Even though the tiny city I live in has several free charging stations.

A step change in battery power density or photovoltaic conversion efficiency is required.
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Old 11-04-2017, 04:11 PM   #25
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Great Britain has banned all gas and diesel vehicle sales after 2040.
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Old 11-04-2017, 04:58 PM   #26
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Great Britain has banned all gas and diesel vehicle sales after 2040.
Certainly a reasonable goal. The likelihood of engineering breakthrough and the cultural shifts that occur in next 22 years make it possible. The fact that the longest traverse of the island from tip to tip is 850 miles helps too.
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Old 11-04-2017, 05:34 PM   #27
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Here's the hybrid boat psneeld mentioned...

2009 Island Pilot DSe12m Hybrid Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I've been underway on both the Greenline 33 and 40 and was impressed by the stable ride (both have fixed fins) and the quiet, but slow, while under electric only.

Greenline Yachts

For land and sea alike, the key is getting lots more power out of batteries and solar panels.
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Old 11-04-2017, 05:37 PM   #28
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I love Sam's stitch and glue boats, ever since I walked through one of his early boats, the "Czarinna." His shop is a candy store that I can't afford to hang out in too long! I don't know much about this latest design idea posted by the OP.

I think we will see a lot more hybrids for coastal and inland cruising before we see big all electric boats. Maybe Sam's new design is a hybrid? I don't know/can't find any info.

The euros have made some real progress with hybrids: Broadbeam Packages - Hybrid Electric Marine Propulsion I can see these working in the canals and bays easy. Super quiet, no fumes through the locks, etc.

Still more $$ for hybrid drive vs. conventional, but it offers the possibility to go all electric galley/no propane.

I can't see doing it to save $$ on fuel for a trawler/displacement hull, seems like the payback is out there beyond my good years left to navigate/scrape and paint!
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Old 11-04-2017, 06:34 PM   #29
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If you want a 2019 Volvo you'll either go hybrid or all electric.

That's how we'll move as a society, when we have no choice or no suitable alternative. People didn't voluntarily give up gas guzzlers. They had to be reduced to meet mpg requirements. No one volunteered for a catalytic converter. The other way is making it economically a wise move, which it isn't today. Either taxes or incentives. Same thing for solar homes and windmill farms.

I admit to being slow to move to electric or hybrid cars. We actually were interested in the Tesla convertible but it was short lived. Just thought it a great novelty and good for driving locally. For out company cars we currently are using Honda Civics, Accords and Pilots. Very closely following the Clarity, both the electric and fuel cell models, but we live about as far from their availability as possible. We have our first replacement vehicles to be purchased in the next few months. We'd figured we'd go to Civic Hybrids and Accord Hybrids, but Civic Hybrids no longer exist. An Accord Hybrid is $6,035 more than a Gas only version. We can save about $95 a year in fuel. So, if we drive them 63 years. We haven't decided, waiting to see what they do over the next few months.

Toss in solar homes. You'd think in the Sunshine State, they'd make a lot of sense. No. If we were building a new home we'd have them, but to go to solar with our existing roof would be terribly expensive. Oh, produce extra and sell it. Well, only back to FPL and net metering isn't a great deal. What about in a hurricane? Well, only if you have equipment installed that prevents your solar from feeding electricity back through the lines, otherwise it gets shut off. For us to pay for solar would take until the 12th of Never. We still want it for some reason, but now we're holding out hope for a Powerwall and then feeding the solar to it. I don't know where we'd put the Powerwall's or the legal hurdles. Part of our problem too is our house is very energy efficient. It often gets overlooked how much Dade hurricane requirements add to efficiency plus concrete and good insulation, so energy efficient building worsens the payback of solar.

We've given electric vehicles and solar homes a lot of thought, but haven't moved toward either yet.

That is true of land. We haven't given them much thought yet on the water as no boat that interests us is offered hybrid and solar would be of minimal benefit to us.
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Old 11-05-2017, 06:10 AM   #30
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"Great Britain has banned all gas and diesel vehicle sales after 2040."

2039 is going to be one heck of a year for car sales!
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Old 11-05-2017, 07:30 AM   #31
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Here began the operation of an electric car ferry 2017



https://www.electricvehiclesresearch...he-environment
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:37 AM   #32
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Duffy is at FLIBS and shows their all electric line of boats. They are the oldest manufacturer of electric boats and have been doing nothing but electric for years.

Of course, most of their customers are theme parks and that sort of thing...

I'd personally prefer a molten salt thorium reactor powered vessel. Never have to fill up, have plenty of heat for desalination and endless power.
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:53 AM   #33
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Has anyone figured out where all the batteries are going to come from for these electric boats and cars as gas and diesel is banned?
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:05 AM   #34
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Or worse, where they will wind up if not recycled properly.
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:27 AM   #35
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I fear solar/electric boats, except for a few very specialized uses, are another joke on the public like ethanol fuel and electric cars.
You may have noticed that Tesla's sales fell to zero in China after the government subsidy was ended, in GA they fell from 1400 to 100 after just the state subsidy was ended. I am tired of helping, with my tax dollars, rich people buy toys (like a Tesla).
Where do these electric car people think the power to charge their cars is coming from if not coal/heavy oil fired power plants for the most part. How much diesel fuel do they think it takes to grow/process a gallon of ethanol for that matter.
The marketplace will take a decade to recover from these and many other government distortions after they are ended.
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:37 AM   #36
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Land and water seem so similar but are so different. I believe every new car built will be either electric or hybrid in a few years. The volume and visability of land vehicles means they come first. It's easy to see the inroads already made. Boats and ships are at least two decades behind. We're not even to the point when Toyota first offered hybrids.
For casual city use an all electric vehicle is the choice of a few. But to drive from Salt Lake City to Las Vegas is about 6 hours by gas powered car or close to 3 days by an EV. Electric powered vehicles have been is use for over a century. Their shortcomings for more than near plug in city use are well understood. Without CA "thinking" and taxpayer funded rebates for wealthy EV owners this wouldn't be much of a topic.

The success of hybrids is due to a very efficient gas engine. That is OK and makes them a popular choice for many including taxis.
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:43 AM   #37
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Duffy is at FLIBS and shows their all electric line of boats. They are the oldest manufacturer of electric boats and have been doing nothing but electric for years.
Ahh, the latest Duffield built at the old Cabo plant in SoCal is gasp, a very nice diesel powered 58 footer with a planing hull and single diesel. Doug Zurn is the designer. Duffield may well have hit a diesel powered home run.
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:46 AM   #38
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Or worse, where they will wind up if not recycled properly.
You are correct. Lithium is a dangerous substance. We can't even recycle our lead/acid batteries. We send them to Mexico for recycling where the acid and lead sulphate go into their groundwater and the lead comes back to make more happy battery customers.
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Old 11-05-2017, 10:05 AM   #39
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You are correct. Lithium is a dangerous substance. We can't even recycle our lead/acid batteries. We send them to Mexico for recycling where the acid and lead sulphate go into their groundwater and the lead comes back to make more happy battery customers.
There are several lead acid recycling plants in the US where every solid and liquid part of the battery is recaptured. Are you saying spent batteries from MA go to Mexico?
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Old 11-05-2017, 11:34 AM   #40
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There are several lead acid recycling plants in the US where every solid and liquid part of the battery is recaptured. Are you saying spent batteries from MA go to Mexico?
Far more likely to go to Middletown, NY. That's not saying that US batteries don't go to Mexico as there are more batteries than can be recycled in the US.

Recycling of batteries, and especially of lead, was a horrific polluter in the US and Europe. There were many companies in the US that are now shut down and major superfund sites, some funded by successor companies that never operated the plant in that location. The history isn't pretty.

However, today, automotive type batteries are one of the biggest success stories of recycling with an extremely high percentage of batteries recycled and it done in environmentally safe and protected ways. It didn't come easy and was forced and still cleaning up from the former companies that refused to clean up their own messes and used bankruptcy to delay.

It's a model for other industries to really look at. Many other products are far easier to recycle but aren't recycled at decent percentages because it's not financially imperative to get the used product to recycling nor financially beneficial to then recycle it.
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