eBikes - thoughts?

[Woodstock]

+1

https://ridecarbo.com/products/carbo-model-s?variant=32332131598399

Get a waterproof backpack instead of putting on a rack on the bike. I use a Dakin. That way can carry heavy stuff (food/drink, hardware) but loading/unloading two simple pieces of manageable weight and easy to deal with in the dinghy. Set up has nothing to rust and can be left outside locked. Don’t do it. Not visible = not stolen.

When we got our Carbo bikes they were offering free fenders and rack which was a nice upgrade. We use these snap on Panier bags that can hold quite a bit of groceries and connect/disconnect easily. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KW2ZIMQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[OldDan1943]

The Carbo looks like a nice bike.
Now, I wonder if I can put on training wheels to make it into a 4 wheeler, my balance is shot the hell when it come to riding a 2 wheeler.

 

[Comodave]

No way would I let my wife have a bike of any kind. She is too clumsy for a bike. We would be in the ER every week or in rehab for the broken bones. Not so sure I would be trustworthy on a bike either.

 

[Doug_Snider]

My wife loves her recumbent tricycle. She got in April and has ridden just under 1,000 miles. It has power assist so hills are no problem.

 

[AlanT]

We have a couple of Rads. We can walk them off and on the boat when we are in a marina and on board they live under a tarp secured with bungee cord in the aft cockpit. We took them up to the San Juan's last summer and they were a game changer. They took us to hikes that started too far from the boat to be feasible otherwise on San Juan Island and Lopez Island. They also made the ride from Roche into Friday Harbor a pleasant ride which is a chore on regular bikes due to the hills. We do lock the bikes and have motion alarms on them.

~A

 

[AZ2Loop]

I decided to stick with a manual bike.

so... i went to a real bike shop and sat down with the owner to configure the perfect bike for a cruiser. We spent time discussing how I intended to use the bike, the expected conditions, my physical ability, etc...

*Very light weight (around 27 lbs) to make it easy to get on and off the boat
* the most corrosion resistant components he can use in the build
* hydraulic brakes to eliminate mechanical cables and improve braking
* 4.25" tires to ride on the beach and get over obsticles
* a 1X12 gear set for reliability
* high handlebars for a upright stance
* a nice basket for provisioning
* fenders because it does rain

There were no mass produced bikes that are built to do exactly what I want to do, but that is the beauty. He is building my new get around rig to me specifications. A custom solution.

I pick up my new cruising bike hopefully this afternoon.

Great solution. I think I will copy this idea when it's time for new bikes. We brought some (approx) 20-year old Specialized brand hybrid bikes when we moved on the boat. They looked great when we started about 2.5 years ago, but are showing more wear in 2.5 years of boat life than the previous 20 years of Arizona/garage life. The custom build, but still pedal power, is the way we will likely go. I like that idea.

 

[HopCar]

For those of you looking at tricycles take a look at Worksman Bicycles. They make lots of different styles and have electric conversion kits for them. They also make all kinds of industrial bicycles. Very interesting website. Many years ago I had one of their folding bikes with a gas motor on it. I could carry it in the back of my Cessna 172.
https://www.worksmancycles.com/

 

[ranger58sb]

But for cruising, I really need a semi-cargo bike sometimes. In the last year, I've had to transport a Windlass and a starter motor on a bike to a repair shop. Having a strong rack is really helpful.

I have some research on decision factors for me that I will post soon (type of motors, brakes, etc). It's a difficult decision for me.

Agree.

FWIW, I think a front suspension is a kinda nifty option, but I prefer no rear suspension in order to get a better/stronger rack. And then we usually mount a milk crate on that rack so we can throw stuff in there...

Combo of handlebar bag, backpack, crate... I can haul a bunch of stuff relatively easily.

I can't get excited about the extra weight of an eBike... and not even sure it would offer me any useful utility. Partly since pedaling is another bit of exercise that I probably need and doesn't hurt me too much (yet).

-Chris

 

[OldDan1943]

Trike with an insulated box to tote fresh groceries on the front and basket on the back to tote parts?
Oh I forgot, a rack bells to warn people and a head light and tail light (power supplied by a small generator that is tire driven)
That should do it.
Paint Good Humor on the box too.
Dont forget the dry ice

 

[O C Diver]

No way would I let my wife have a bike of any kind. She is too clumsy for a bike. We would be in the ER every week or in rehab for the broken bones. Not so sure I would be trustworthy on a bike either.

My wife use to be an avid cyclist and athlete. Hadn't been on her bike in a few years and has become more sedentary. Last winter we were together for a month in Florida. She decided to get back on the bike. Told me to go do my 12 mile daily circuit while she practiced around the neighborhood. When I returned, the bike was lying next to the back door, not good. Trip to the urgent care facility to immobilize a broken wrist bone. I had to drive her back to Illinois and spend a week between covid clearance tests, surgery, and beginning rehab. Bike with be sold. If you get off for a few years, don’t get back on.

Ted

 

[AlanT]

My wife use to be an avid cyclist and athlete. Hadn't been on her bike in a few years and has become more sedentary. Last winter we were together for a month in Florida. She decided to get back on the bike. Told me to go do my 12 mile daily circuit while she practiced around the neighborhood. When I returned, the bike was lying next to the back door, not good. Trip to the urgent care facility to immobilize a broken wrist bone. I had to drive her back to Illinois and spend a week between covid clearance tests, surgery, and beginning rehab. Bike with be sold. If you get off for a few years, don’t get back on.

Ted

Without disagreeing with you - different strokes for different strokes. My wife is the wrong side of 70 (Sshh), has never been particularly athletic but is fit and weight proportionate. A year ago she had her second total knee replacement. She hadn't ridden bikes regularly since adolescence. She picked it up again 15 years ago in Barcelona where we wintered. She didn't like it at all but persisted, she never felt confident. Move on 15 years and she now loves her Rad ebike. She is confident but cautious on it, doesn't much like riding in traffic but will do so if needed. Loves bike paths, paved trails.
~A

 

[Doug_Snider]

Without disagreeing with you - different strokes for different strokes. My wife is the wrong side of 70 (Sshh), has never been particularly athletic but is fit and weight proportionate. A year ago she had her second total knee replacement. She hadn't ridden bikes regularly since adolescence. She picked it up again 15 years ago in Barcelona where we wintered. She didn't like it at all but persisted, she never felt confident. Move on 15 years and she now loves her Rad ebike. She is confident but cautious on it, doesn't much like riding in traffic but will do so if needed.

My wife, also in that age group, was an avid biker in her twenties. Our lives took different paths and it wasn’t until 2014 that we reconnected and married in 2016. For most of my adult life I was a bike commuter. She wasn’t quite up to biking at my pace and kind of gave up on getting back on her bike. An auto accident in 2018 cost her most of her right hand. Riding a bike was not possible. Not discouraged, she tried out a recumbent trike. She loves it and we ride together almost every day.

The shop in Portland where we found the trike specializes in adapting them for riders with limitations.

Here are our teenage grandsons trying to keep up with her.

 

[ksanders]

This is my new bike

Not an e-bike. It weighs 27 pounds which I was very thankful for getting it in and out of the cockpit.

Rode it for the first time yesterday, will go out again today.
This bike was designed by my bike shop professional as a cruisers transportation machine during lengthy discussions regarding my intended use as a full time active cruiser.

Notice the riding stance is upright. This is different than most performance bikes and is more comfortable for extended operation at a leisure pace.

The saddle bags open up and remove to be perfect grocery bags.

Over time perhaps I'll think of things to add or change but my first impression is he got the design spot on.

 

[mvweebles]

This is my new bike



Not an e-bike. It weighs 27 pounds which I was very thankful for getting it in and out of the cockpit.



Rode it for the first time yesterday, will go out again today.

This bike was designed by my bike shop professional as a cruisers transportation machine during lengthy discussions regarding my intended use as a full time active cruiser.



Notice the riding stance is upright. This is different than most performance bikes and is more comfortable for extended operation at a leisure pace.



The saddle bags open up and remove to be perfect grocery bags.



Over time perhaps I'll think of things to add or change but my first impression is he got the design spot on.

Nice Kevin. Question. How did you decide to go with far tires?

 

[HopCar]

Trike with an insulated box to tote fresh groceries on the front and basket on the back to tote parts?
Oh I forgot, a rack bells to warn people and a head light and tail light (power supplied by a small generator that is tire driven)
That should do it.
Paint Good Humor on the box too.
Dont forget the dry ice

No Problem! Worksman made them for Good Humor and they still make them.
https://www.worksmancycles.com/vending.html

 

[ksanders]

Nice Kevin. Question. How did you decide to go with far tires?

Two reasons. One was the ability to go over things in villages that would put a side load on the tire, and potentially cause me to loose balance. For example a bit of concrete that was not poured thinking about the piece next to it, something I found common in La Paz.

The other reason was beach and or sand riding. Fat tires give more flotation.

People have a misconception that fat tire bikes require more exertion than a more slender tire. That is not so much true if you inflate the fat tires to a higher pressure. To get the best flotation you can reduce the air pressure on a fat tire bike down to as low as about 4 psi, but my bike designer recommended that for most of my intended use to keep them at 19-20 PSI.

 

[Pdxstriper]

My wife has a power assisted Catrike Trail folding recumbent trike and I’m not ready to give up my Trek Marlin mountain bike powered by a 77 year old. When our new Helmsman arrives, we plan to carry them on the boat deck and use the Nick Jackson hoist to handle them. Any suggestions on keeping them dry and corrosion free?

We have a pair of foldable RAD Mini4s. Before purchase I did some research and could not find an ebike that was saltwater friendly. (I even got a form letter back warning me of the ill-effects of saltwater on the electronic components, connectors, etc.). So we had a couple of heavy rubberized nylon bags made with wraparound straps for lifting and waterproof zippers. They were custom made to fit our ebikes by our local canvas shop (Hayden Island Canvas, Portland, OR). They charged us $250 each. We will travel with then on the upper deck of our American Tug 34.

I know from past experience traveling with a scooter in the cockpit that a regular hosing off and followed by spraying with CRC helps extend the life of metal in salt water environments.

Hope this helps.
Pete

 

[mvweebles]

I just ordered the Ride1Up 700 Series eBike. https://ride1up.com/product/700-series/ $1545 delivered.

I came close to going with a Folding eBike, which would have been the Aventon Sinch https://www.aventon.com/products/aventon-sinch-foldable-electric-bike

Had I been willing to wait a while, I would have probably gone with the Ride1Up Cafe Cruiser. More relaxed configuration. Looks cool to my eye. Unfortunately, I have a road-trip planned and don't want to wait. https://ride1up.com/product/cruiser/

The Aventon Aventure would have been a good choice too - and I was close as it has fat tires, but was about $500 more expensive (with rack and light). https://www.aventon.com/collections/ebikes/products/aventure-ebike

How did I decide? Wasn't easy, and I'm not sure I made the right choice.

Why eBike vs regular bike? I'm not much of a bike rider, but I thought about it anyway. For me, range and carrying capacity came into play. Plus, living in Florida with heat/humidity, I thought the extra ooomph of an eBike would be userful.

Full size vs Folding. Hardest part of my decision. I had a folding Dahon bike and it sucked. So I was biased against, even though I know they've improved. But the folding aspect was definitely compelling. However, more I thought about it, the more I realized I would use the bike outside of just the boat. I live in a beach community now where parking is tough so getting around town will definitely be easier. We like to camp at National Parks and such so bike is second transportation. In the end, it was really close, but the more I thought about it, the less benefit I could see in folding. Time will tell.

Features. It took me a while to figure out the motor power ratings and such. There's some gamesmanship in the market right now about "Peak Power" which is meaningless. The most important rating is torque (usually in Newtons). This gives an idea of ability to go uphill. But here is a rundown of some of my learnings:

• Motor Wattage. Range from 300W to around 750W. Higher is better.
• Battery Capacity. Again, some FUD here - usually stated in AH, but you have to keep an eye - most bikes are 48v, but some are 36v, so really WH is the better rating. 14AH @ 48V is fairly common (672WH), but range is from 500WH to 750WH.
• Brakes. Either mechanical or hydraulic. Hydraulic are less maintenance and was important to me.
• Step-through or cross-bar frame (girls vs boys bike). I would have gone with step-through except the price was $150 more and I figured the cross-bar frame is stronger.
• Handlebars - pull-backs or straight. I wanted a more upright ride, so would like some lift and pull-back. I am doubtful the bars on the bike I got are what I want, but they are fairly inexpensive (under $50) if I don't like them.
• Motor. There are two types - mid-drive that drives the crank/pedals; and hub-drive. Mid-drive benefits that you get the gear-ratio benefit of the crank but is much, much more expensive. For hub-drive, the cheapest bikes are single-speed. The mid-priced models such as the ones I was looking at are gear-driven. They are very reliable. Due to budget, I didn't have a choice.
• Tires. Fat tires (3"-5") or regular tires (2-1/2" tires). I would have preferred the 3-inch tires just because I will be off-road some - this is the main reason I would have chosen the Ride1Up Cafe Cruiser had it been available.
• Suspension. Some form of front fork suspension was important to me. Most bikes have it, but not all. Travel ranges from 40mm (just under 1-1/2") and 80mm-100mm (around 3-inches).
• Accessories. Primarily bike rake, fenders, and lights. Can easily add $200-$300 to the cost. Given the rain in places like Florida, I cannot imagine not having fenders.

To sum-up, not sure I made the best choice for strictly boat usage - I may have gone folding even though racks are not as strong. But I think for my use, it's a good choice but time will tell.

I am really bullish on solar and electric stuff so this was an interesting exercise for me. When I started, I thought the idea of spending $5k on a bike was nuts (for me it is), but I can see how a nice cargo bike can remove the need for a second car for some people. The Tern GSD is top quality at $5700. Given the expense of a car, plus maintenance, insurance, and operating costs, I can really see the business case for some people.

Thanks to everyone for your input. Really helpful to see what others did and the generally strong support for eBikes.

Peter

 

[mcarthur]

For the boat, I was looking for: alum frame, IGH (8/11/14 gear internal geared hub), Gates belt drive, 250W electric with torque sensor, 36V battery, folding, 20 or 26" tyres, and not too expensive. Not much to wish for

That would make it a lot less pervious to salt water, lightish, smallish, and cheapish.

Still looking...

 

[Caballero II]

I avoided folding ebikes, because to the great compromise, and bought a couple of commuter bikes (not fat wheels, good distance bikes, comfortable to get into town and back). Some friends with subarus that couldn't fit the full bike into the car had to go with them, but it's a compromise that I would avoid if you can. Check www.radpower.com bikes. They are very popular and at good price points.

There is likely an e-Bike in my future. Best I've found is this list -

https://www.bikeride.com/best-electric-bikes/

Folding sounds handy, but not sure it buys much given they aren't exactly demure so maybe a regular bike-size. Any thoughts or experiences out there? For me, would be used when cruising in lieu of either walking or a car/taxi.

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

For the boat, I was looking for: alum frame, IGH (8/11/14 gear internal geared hub), Gates belt drive, 250W electric with torque sensor, 36V battery, folding, 20 or 26" tyres, and not too expensive. Not much to wish for



That would make it a lot less pervious to salt water, lightish, smallish, and cheapish.



Still looking...

You have pretty well described the Pedego Latch. Carbon fiber belt vs chain. 3-speed shifter so no derallieure Aluminum frame. SS spokes, etc.

https://pedegoelectricbikes.com/product/latch/specifications/

Review from a reputable blogger.
https://youtu.be/SQULQ6UBuMw

About $3000 with upgraded battery. 5-year warranty.

 

[Blue Yonder]

I've been looking at 'bikes for the boat' for a while now and recently pulled the trigger. We went with the Riese & Müller Tinker Vario compact cargo ebikes. Luckily there was a bike shop that carried all 3 of my finalists so we were able to do a head-head comparison between the Brompton, Tern HSD and Tinker. The Brompton felt like it wouldn't pull a skin off a rice pudding, and would break if we hit a decent pothole, so it was out straight away. In fairness we are 'large framed' (I'm 6'4", 270 lbs). The HSD and Tinker Vario both rode excellently but in the end the Tinker won out because it was a wee bit shorter and handled slightly better. I think the HSD would be better for purely hauling stuff.

I wanted a belt drive and hydraulic brakes to reduce maintenance, and something we could comfortably go decent distances on. Light weight was also a consideration, but only the Carbo seemed to fit the bill and you can't test ride them here in Oz (you have to purchase then return it).

We've had the Tinkers for a couple of months now. So far we've been super happy with the switch to electric. Hills are so easy now. We forgo using the car in deference to them where possible. Battery life hasn't been an issue but our trips are typically in the 20 - 40 km range.

Our boat is currently being built (55' power cat) and we've specified a locker at the front to house the bikes. At 55 lbs they are heavy. I'm hoping that will be Ok for getting in/out of the tender.

 

[Caballero II]

For the boat, I was looking for: alum frame, IGH (8/11/14 gear internal geared hub), Gates belt drive, 250W electric with torque sensor, 36V battery, folding, 20 or 26" tyres, and not too expensive. Not much to wish for

That would make it a lot less pervious to salt water, lightish, smallish, and cheapish.

Still looking...

I'm not sure what the regulations are in Oz, but you are describing a fairly low-powered bike. In the U.S. we have access to bikes up to 750 W and beyond. Also, we have access to eBikes that are not only pedal assist, but also have an independent throttle to allow you to start easily from a dead stop. I know they are not allowed in Europe. I love the idea of a belt drive, but that eliminates the option of a derailleur (more gears).

 

[mvweebles]

I'm not sure what the regulations are in Oz, but you are describing a fairly low-powered bike. In the U.S. we have access to bikes up to 750 W and beyond. Also, we have access to eBikes that are not only pedal assist, but also have an independent throttle to allow you to start easily from a dead stop. I know they are not allowed in Europe. I love the idea of a belt drive, but that eliminates the option of a derailleur (more gears).

The motors are geared so there is mechanical advantage. Plus, with a folding bike with 20-inch wheels, there is additional mechanical advantage due to smaller wheels. The Pedego Latch has a 250W motor that has been around for a few years and is well reviewed. Point being there is more than one way to get torque beyond simple power (though more power/wattage is nice).

If I wanted an eBike for a boat for a long cruise (say....The Loop), the Pedego would be a really good option. It's among the most compact and relatively light for an eBike. While more gears is nice, the 3-speed hub is clean and maintenance free. It's definitely a compromise, but ticks a lot of boxes for a boat-stowed eBike.

Peter

 

[Pdxstriper]

One factor I would consider is the expected 'longevity' of the parent manufacturer. There appear to be hundreds on brands of ebikes on the market. Heck I have never heard of most of the brands mentioned in this thread! How many of them will be around in 5 years? I feel pretty comfortable with RAD as they appear to be one of the biggest. Lectric is also moving a lot of product. Just my opinion. And, for the record, I am in no way associated with RAD, Lectric, or any other ebike maker.

 

[OldDan1943]

There used to be a 2cycle gas motor that would drive the bike by metal wheel rubbing on the tire. I had one for about 6 months and sold the motor at a profit and gave the bike away. I do not recall the brand.

 

[mvweebles]

Best i can tell, the eBike builders are essentially assemblers, not manufacturers. Reminiscent of the PC market back in the 90s.

They design and build a frame, but everything else is sourced from off the shelf parts. More expensive bikes have more expensive components. But business model is the same.

 

[HopCar]

There used to be a 2cycle gas motor that would drive the bike by metal wheel rubbing on the tire. I had one for about 6 months and sold the motor at a profit and gave the bike away. I do not recall the brand.

Sounds like the Bumble Bike. I sold a few of them in my store and owned one my self. This is a photo of one like I had.

 

[Caballero II]

The motors are geared so there is mechanical advantage. Plus, with a folding bike with 20-inch wheels, there is additional mechanical advantage due to smaller wheels. The Pedego Latch has a 250W motor that has been around for a few years and is well reviewed. Point being there is more than one way to get torque beyond simple power (though more power/wattage is nice).

If I wanted an eBike for a boat for a long cruise (say....The Loop), the Pedego would be a really good option. It's among the most compact and relatively light for an eBike. While more gears is nice, the 3-speed hub is clean and maintenance free. It's definitely a compromise, but ticks a lot of boxes for a boat-stowed eBike.

Peter

My point is, in physics, everything about power is at a cost. 250W is at the low end of the power range, so if the PO has not studied these ebikes in depth, he might not know or understand this. If he's a big guy, he really needs to know. And a three gear internal hub is nothing like a 10-gear system, and maintenance can be as easy as an annual visit to the bike shop.
Again, not sure what the regs are in OZ, but it would pay to know what the various classes of eBikes are available there.

I will assume the bike for the loop you mention would be pretty much a flat-lander bike whereas, if you want or need to climb some hills, that's a very different animal. Just like boats, it's all about the compromises you are willing to make to maximize your options, so you had better understand those variables. There's a wealth of internet reviews out there, so I highly recommend studying those. I studied for 8 months before pulling the trigger, but that's me.

 

[Caballero II]

My point is, in physics, everything about power is at a cost. 250W is at the low end of the power range, so if the PO has not studied these ebikes in depth, he might not know or understand this. If he's a big guy, he really needs to know. And a three gear internal hub is nothing like a 10-gear system, and maintenance can be as easy as an annual visit to the bike shop.
Again, not sure what the regs are in OZ, but it would pay to know what the various classes of eBikes are available there.

I will assume the bike for the loop you mention would be pretty much a flat-lander bike whereas, if you want or need to climb some hills, that's a very different animal. Just like boats, it's all about the compromises you are willing to make to maximize your options, so you had better understand those variables. There's a wealth of internet reviews out there, so I highly recommend studying those. I studied for 8 months before pulling the trigger, but that's me.

Also, I might add that a Pedago might be low on my list as they hew to the European Union rules of pedal-assist only. That means you won't get any electric assist unless you start pedaling. Not the end of the world, but if Oz allows it, I would be sure to include the independent throttle option. It's really helpful, especially if any balance impairement involved.