Does a trawler have weather and motion issues like a sailboat?

[Hippocampus]

Hate to do this but will hit you with some neurology. Both NASA and the USN as well as others have studied this over the years. Basically to give gross summaries.
Everyone can get motion sick. EVERYONE. Threshold may vary but it’s everyone.
Most people fall into one of two groups. Those who are more sensitive to low frequency motion or those more sensitive to high frequency.
So some will get sick on a deep V drifting in chop while fishing or a multi hull underway (high) and others on a ship or heavily ballasted mono (low).
Motion sickness involves all sensory systems. Smell, taste, proprioception, sacules/otoliths (gravity) and semicircular canals (angular acceleration). Inability to resolve conflict between sensory inputs leads to motion sickness.
Complex motions (corkscrewing) are more prone to produce sickness than simple motions ( beating through chop).
Anything that decrease conflict will decrease sickness. Using legs to decrease motion, looking at a fixed horizon, lying down on your back with eyes closed. Looking in direction of forward motion, absence of smells, drugs that decrease central histamine, anticholinergics increase norepinephrine/dopamine in brain stem etc.
Seasickness is serious and can lead to death via electrolyte disturbance, Mallory Weiss tears, dehydration etc.
Ocean going boats should carry multiple remedies but any remedy that maybe used should be tried by crew before passage as side effects are idiosyncratic. We carry patches, ginger, stugeron, compazine suppositories etc.

Choice of boat should reflect susceptibility of expected crew. i.e. mono/multi, light/heavy, chined/soft bilges, FD/semi.
In tens of thousands of blue water miles I’ve missed my watch twice. Once while upside down in a sling working on repairing a stay between ala and ama on a tri going at speed (15-20kts). Combination of cold, wet, focusing on tools and task, and exhaustion got me. Slept my watch then back into rotation. Second time was working on engine in a force 8-9.
Bilge water got on hot engine and there was an exhaust leak at mixing elbow. Smell was terrible. No light, no horizon, awkward positions to prevent getting burnt, poor ventilation. Was sick when I crawled out. Captain took me off watch although I was ok after an hour or two standing outside facing the wind and chewing on candied ginger.
As captain it’s key you monitor your crew. Are they sleeping enough?. Eating and drinking enough?. Are they yawning/sleepy or showing other signs of early motion sickness.? Boats are lost not due boat problems but due to the crew being unable to function. Motion sickness is the common reason.

 

[Sabre602]

I"ve been thinking for a year about getting a boat when I retire soon. I looked at sailboats, but it seems like a continuous fight avoiding or getting caught in the weather--sailboats take a long time to make a passage. Also, the ceaseless heeling and rolling seems exhausting, from the videos I've watched.

Are trawlers, or motor yachts in general, different in these regards, or pretty much the same?

Thanks
Jim

Before I proceed with the following generalizations, know that boat designs are extremely varied. There are certainly trawlers that are better suited to rough conditions than some sailboats, and there are certainly sailboats that roll less than some trawlers. Hull form, keel design, ballasting, waterline length, righting moments, tophamper & windage, freeboard...there are many, many factors to consider.

With this caveat in mind, I offer several generalizations.

"Avoiding or getting caught in the weather."
Any vessel can be equipped with the electronics that allow the prepared navigator to avoid weather. In addition to planning, another element to consider in avoiding weather is speed. There may be times when running at a higher speed would allow one to get to shelter ahead of a storm. Many recreational small craft boaters rely upon this method because they aren't really prepared to get and understand forecasts. But we're talking about small craft here. The average trawler doesn't have an enormous speed advantage over a similarly sized sailboat. If you want speed in either type of craft it comes at significant cost.

More serious navigators will anticipate weather and plan voyages accordingly. As far as getting caught out, it happens to most folks if enough time is spent on the water. But non-boaters often have the impression that the sea is constantly stormy. This isn't the case.

But if I were to be out in really big weather, I would rather be in a well found sailboat than an average trawler. As has been pointed out, blue water cruising can be done by many, many sailboats, but by only a limited number of trawler yachts. Again, we're generalizing.

"Ceaseless heeling and rolling"
Well, the sea moves a bit. The "ceaseless" part seems like it expresses the feeling that such movement is a bad thing, something to be avoided. Monohull sailboats do heel. It's inherent in their design and it makes them much more stable underfoot when heeled. If it seems something to be avoided, by all means do not consider a monohull sailboat. Catamarans avoid this, but sacrifices are made in comfort in heavy weather, dock space requirements, and the need to have two engines. I don't know what videos you're watching, but I have never considered the motion on a sailboat to be exhausting. Sure, the racers are hammering boat and crew alike, but the average recreational sailor enjoys very pleasant motion when under sail. Rolling your guts out while becalmed in the doldrums? Sure, and very few ever get to experience this.

Frankly, the greatest part of the recreational boating experience is attitude. If someone doesn't like the floor to move, they should avoid boats altogether. Virtually all sailboats and trawlers alike can take far more frolicksome motion than their inexperienced crews can. My wife absolutely loves it when things get bouncy, while others are white with fear. It's really a personal thing more than a factor of what sort of boat you're on.

The only way to learn how you really will feel is to experience it. I do not recommend a bareboat charter, but rather strongly recommend a crewed charter. It can be done as a group charter, less costly than private, where you can forget any worries or responsibilities and simply experience being on the water.

 

[oscar]

Don't most boaters like me "day sail" and avoid long passages?

Depends on where you are trying to go.....

I mean you could day sail to Tahiti but you're gonna have to bring some serious ground tackle.

 

[mvweebles]

Day-hopping is a very slow method of getting somewhere. If your desire is to smell the roses along the way, great. But if you're trying to transit an area, going in/out of inlets /bars often adds several hours to the day. I realize stabilization is expensive, but if coastal passagemaking is planned, they, along with reasonable weather skills, solve 80% of the concerns people have with cruising a trawler.

To those who say they'd rather be on a sailboat in rough weather, don't forget there's a strong likelihood that part of that will involve being on pitching/rolling foredeck fixing/unjamming a line or swapping a sail or something. Rest of the time you're in an exposed cockpit - fatigue will quickly become an issue.

Peter

 

[FF]

Cruising sailboats laid out with a Great Cabin aft solved the"down below with no air or view" many decades ago.

 

[Hippocampus]

Yes 95% of recreational craft aren’t used to their capabilities. Yes it’s true most recreational craft are primarily used to daysail. This makes perfect sense given time required, expense and risks involved. People get great enjoyment from this activity and it needs no defense.
However there’s a small group in both power and sail who cruise. They cruise long distances and for long times. That group is quite diverse. I can sit at a Ocean Cruising Club meeting with a 28’ 40 year old Bristol Channel Cutter Owner on one side of me and a 60’ Gunboat owner on the other. Or a new to him Diesel Duck owner standing next to new Nordhavn owner as we stand around and chat before the presentation. Sure most are on sail but there are trawler people “living the life”. I’ve run into them scattered throughout the leewards and windwards and they do just fine. You see them on Dashews, LRCs, DD, Nordhavns, Krogans and more than occasional one offs or converted commercial boats. They’re Europeans, Aussies, Canadians and a few Americans but they do cross oceans to get there. They are the emotional sons and daughters of captain Beebe. Think Beebe and Slocum would have gotten along just fine even with Slocums dislike of steam.
Many discussions here and on others sites show this dichotomy. Coastal people not understanding the concerns or demands of long term travel. Cruisers being unreasonably picky about things and holier than thou due to fossilized thinking.
My reality is a prudent coastal captain need never see weather as long as he understands “Schedules KILL”. A ocean cruiser inevitably will. Forecasts are a wish at 7 days, reasonable at 5days, decent at 3 days and excellent at one. Only weather that matters is that above your head. There are many hyper local events that are not adequately forecasted. Having said that truly serious weather is a concern less than 5% of the time. But you can’t escape that small percentage indefinitely.
From my personal experience I think coastal is more difficult and dangerous than ocean. More traffic. Much greater need to be totally spot on with navigation. Need to be concerned with depth and hard edges. Inability to see weather at any significant distance. Been in 2-3 meter non breaking waves with a long period that cause no discomfort nor concern when in blue water whereas small waves refracting and reflecting off a shoreline can be most uncomfortable.
I have a bias for which I must apologize. I’m here to learn. But the mission for my boats has been and will be an outlier. So please don’t misconstrue the intent of my dumb questions or comments. Still, it quite evident from some of the comments here people aren’t aware of the trends in all recreational boating over recent years nor how a subset of people use them.

 

[Andiamo2018]

Cart before the horse

What do you know how to do? So many people spend their time getting a boat and then customizing it but never learn much about actually how to use it.

If you are near retirement age and you don't know about sailing already.... You have a big commitment in front of you for whatever you want to do but you need to try those options first.

Or just get a big boat and sit on the dock and motor around (even if it is a sailboat). If you actually want to go places there is a lot to learn. The learning process was incredibly fun for me. If it isn't for you maybe just get the smallest boat that will let you join a yacht club.

 

[Benchmark]

Here's a sample

Here's a short video of what its really like in blue water on a calm day

Something you need to endure for the privilege of visiting the most gorgeous places on the planet.

Another Gulf Stream crossing moment, where Mother Nature put on a show!

These folks have lots of great footage of transits in a large fast boat, which you might enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbuTTI_DH-F3VbxYTR9zQX0-gdLvQJAT8

Good luck in your quest.

 

[TollerTrawler]

I love trawlers, but I own a sailboat. I like the challenges of running a sailboat--quite a bit more to know and do, to get somewhere. I enjoy when the auxiliary is shut off, and I always feel closer to nature on my sailboat. I particularly like the simplicity of the little diesel--I can do most of the maintenance, not that there's much. On the flip side, safety is a bigger focus (we are never above decks without our Airforce vests), but I feel safer in weather. Sailing is a lot more physical; I don't think I've ever been on my boat without banging my head, or a shin, or an elbow. I really like that I get a more 'sophisticated' boat (systems, features, arguably styling) for the equivalent money of a trawler, as these days in the PNW trawlers command a premium.

 

[socalrider]

We transitioned from a 40' mono sailboat ('87 Beneteau First 405) to a 41' trawler, in part because we found that locally (SoCal) most of the passages we made were under power anyway (we get wind from noon to five, and motoring into the prevailing NW swell to Catalina for 12-14hrs at 6.5kts SOG was incredibly uncomfortable even in relative calm. Any faster than that and the boat would slam. Everyone got seasick except me both ways.

This summer's passage was vastly better on the trawler. We made the trip in ~8hrs at 7.5-8kts, so we could leave at dawn rather than 2am. My youngest got a bit seasick on the way up, but nobody else, and the way back was totally relaxing (though it was a particularly calm day).

If we were doing really long passages I'd want a big sailboat to get similar room but more range - I was looking seriously at a Stevens 50, but that's 25% more in slip fees, 2x the cost, and such a large rig and heavy displacement, daysailing would be a lot of work.

Horses for courses!

 

[jeffnick]

I'm not so good with numbers or techniques, but I can relate personal experience.


In our 20's my wife and I decided we wanted to live aboard a sailboat. We did, for 3 years, sailing from New England to the Caribbean. We probably ran the sailboat motor for over 60% of the water miles we covered, but it's that other 40% that gets you addicted to sailing; a sailboat does strange things to your memory.


We were on an offshore passage. The winds were gale force; the temps in the high 30's. We often had seas breaking over the boat, basically submerging us with water streaming through the the slides of the hatch. My wife and I looked at each other, cold, wet and exhausted and declared, "We're never doing this again!"


Six days later when we finally anchored safely in our home port, we again looked at each other and she asked, "Where do you want to go next?" And there were many more "nexts". Such is the life of a sailor - this would never have happened in our trawler because one doesn't allow that adventure with a coastal trawler.


Looking back for us (we're in our 70's) with experience on a 27' sailboat and 35' trawler we might suggest that sailing is adventure for the physically fit. A motor vessel is for laid back get-aways, more suitable for folks our age. But the trawler was expensive to maintain and had complicated systems. We eventually migrated to a trailerable houseboat.
https://72land-n-sea.blogspot.com/2012/04/sailboat-or-trawler.html


and even then we appreciate all the help we can get.

https://72land-n-sea.blogspot.com/2020/10/big-duck-not-me-102-3-420.html

 

[Oldsarge]

Yes, I have a 24 foot sailboat that I have only ever sailed on Green Bay. It was built with a full keel as a cruising sailboat. I have never sailed it in any ocean, but in my research boats exactly like mine have sailed long ocean passages. Displacement 6,500 lbs.

 

[OldDan1943]

Stabilizers will reduce the roll but not the bow burying motion.
It is exciting to see the water coming over the bow and against the pilot house windows.

 

[Cartouche]

I"ve been thinking for a year about getting a boat when I retire soon. I looked at sailboats, but it seems like a continuous fight avoiding or getting caught in the weather--sailboats take a long time to make a passage. Also, the ceaseless heeling and rolling seems exhausting, from the videos I've watched.

Are trawlers, or motor yachts in general, different in these regards, or pretty much the same?

Thanks
Jim

Everything you love on a sailboat you hate on a trawler and Vice Versa. Beam sea is miserable on a trawler going into a sea is great. they love calm flat water.

 

[Ken Ongemach]

Roll moment

Sure.. As long as a boat displaces less water than ir weighs, it's going to have some type of roll. Aircraft Carriers Roll!


The answer here is What KIND of Roll. Slow to start & stop or a Snappy roll with a snappy finish.

The boat with the lower center of moment will have the slowest roll. A sailboat normally have a lower center of moment than a semi displacement Trawler but, which would you rather sail in. A hull with very restricted volume or one with a lot of volume, like a Trawler.


Their is NO free lunch. Semi Displacement hulls, like Trawlers will have a snapper roll than a sail boat, of a given length.


But as Active Stabilizers are restricted to larger hulls & a maintenance nightmare, just set up your Trawler for extended periods of weather.. Restricted weight above the water line, not enough handholds, etc...


Ken, Tampa

 

[mvweebles]

QUOTE: "But as Active Stabilizers are restricted to larger hulls & a maintenance nightmare, just set up your Trawler for extended periods of weather.. Restricted weight above the water line, not enough handholds, etc...*

My 1970 Willard 36 came with original Vosper hydraulic stabilizers. They lasted 48 years, the last 20+ under my ownership with minimal maintenance. My head system has needed more maintenance than my stabilizers.

Really depends on your intended cruising grounds. ICW or Great Loop? No need for stabilizers. Coastal passagemaking to Mexico, Bahamas, Central America, or outside transits of the US? I personally would strongly prefer some form of stabilization despite the expense.

Peter

 

[jfox]

I just want to say what an amazing post this was. I had a Facebook site that over 40 people were added to called "Victims of FoxSea". If they threw up, they got invited to the site. FoxSea was a 38 foot sailboat. Over the years I tried to figure out what flips that switch for some but not others. Pharmacologically the best drug my crew seemed to have the most success in avoiding becoming another victim was with scopolamine. Good overall balance between efficacy and side effects. In the end my wife made me sell the sailboat as she got too seasick unless we were going fast in light seas. So now we have a powerboat and as long as its going fast, she doesn't experience any Mal de mer. But she cant tolerate fishing, even trolling at 7 knots makes her nauseated.

But being a sailor all my life it's been quite the transition to power boating. Its been 4 years now, and I still don't feel confident the way I did in my sailboat anytime the wind or seas pick up. I find myself really watching the weather much more so on my passages to Catalina when I hardly considered that in the sailboat. But the plus sides are many and include a way bigger cockpit for entertaining and fishing and the twin diesels makes it much easier to handle in tight quarters than my sailboat was.

Also consider that options for chartering a sailboat are much more plentiful than chartering powerboats.

 

[Hippocampus]

For reasons already mentioned elsewhere we’re downsizing to a trawler. We expect to have a similar program. We expect to continue to make the occasional passage as we have done in the past. Systems will be the same. Watermaker, AC, Northernlights gensets, flatscreen TV, extensive audiovisual entertainment, hydronic heat, fleet one or equivalent and probably SSB because I enjoy it. The sailboat was plumbed for a splendide but we never put in in. All this business amount complexity is hogwash in my view. There’s little difference if any in the level of creature comforts or complexity in the modern sail or power cruiser. The visibility argument seems over wrought as well. Taking watch under a hard dodger with the companionway partial open means your dry, out of wind and toasty with true 360 scan easily done. Believe visibility aft is actually better as is views of the sky. At anchor many sailboats put up a full cockpit enclosure. Some leave it up unless weather is quite extreme. So again a pleasant place to be on a early spring or late fall day. Physical demands are more similar than different. As previously said my 100lbs 4’10” wife can solo her watch without difficulties. She can reef, strike, raise and hand all by her lonesome. She uses the power winches but she’s done every evolution without them by herself.
In short the modern FD blue water cruising trawler is more like the modern blue water cruising sailboat than either is to boats not aimed at that segment of the market. Yes the AVS of the sailboat is typically above 130 whereas it’s typically around 90 for the trawler. Yes weather tactics are different but survival weather tactics now are just about the same. Talking with my insurance friends insurance rate per 10k for international open water cruising are the same for both. Leading me to believe risks are similar. I think there’s no escape in decreasing the work, time and money involved in being a safe captain (or crew) and having a good safe boat under you. The sail/power split is meaningless as regards that issue.

 

[Hippocampus]

To continue my rant. There’s many people on this site that have been in more and worse weather than I have. And they have done on power. People tend to misuse words. By the Beaufort definitions I've been in one true storm (sustained winds 48-55kts) we saw gusts in the 70s. That’s once in 35 years. Perhaps a dozen gales, more squalls than I can count. Got to think the folks on power with similar programs have seen the same or worse. Got to think many of the people here posting have more experience than me in weather. From reading their posts they on good seaboats and are good seamen(and women). Think the whole weather thing is a bunch of hoey. Yes you think a lot about it. Yes you prepare and train. Yes there’s definitely sailboats (some quite large and expensive) I wouldn’t take out of sight of land and there’s power I’d have no problem high lat cruising. So think it’s way more productive to talk about specific boats, tactics, and equipment than do the power v sail thing.
Rant over. Thanks

 

[Hippocampus]

Please note my posts reflect full displacement trawlers aimed at passage making not semi displacement vessels nor recreational tugs.

 

[Sitka]

Journey vs Destination

We own both a trawler and a sailboat, living aboard in CA during the winter and the PNW in the summer. I would sum it up as journey vs destination. I feel like our experience on the sailboat is much more the journey itself. The minute by minute changes along the way that are felt by the boat, the crew and the environment. It’s exhilarating, exasperating and often time exhausting. The trawler experience is equally dynamic but the focus for us is more about the excitement of the destination. Exploring the places we dock or anchor with lots of energy left when we arrive. With all boats the time in port is spent checking and maintaining systems to minimize problems underway. There is always a bit of security having the sails if the engine malfunctions but there is also Boat US Towing....

PS: We couldn’t decide either which is why we ended up with 2 boats and no house for retirement!

I"ve been thinking for a year about getting a boat when I retire soon. I looked at sailboats, but it seems like a continuous fight avoiding or getting caught in the weather--sailboats take a long time to make a passage. Also, the ceaseless heeling and rolling seems exhausting, from the videos I've watched.

Are trawlers, or motor yachts in general, different in these regards, or pretty much the same?

Thanks
Jim

 

[CDreamer]

I grew up sailing and motoring and I’ve done long passages on both.
First of all, do you know how to sail? Meaning offshore? If not, that’s a lot of learning.
Foot for foot, a good cruising sailboat is generally able to take rougher weather than a cruising powerboat. And while a semi-displacement cruising powerboat can get up and go fast (With a righteous fuel burn), my 40’ cruising sailboat would easily make 8 or 9 knots under sail, compared to many 40’ displacement trawlers that would work hard to make 7 or 8.
But if you’re doing the Loop or hanging out in the Keys? Trawler all the way. More comfortable in general...weather in those examples isn’t a big issue and traveling would be more like an RV.

 

[FF]

"traveling would be more like an RV."

Boaters are not that lucky , sadly the std RV toilet system and propane reefers are not yet enjoyed by boaters.

A WAG would suggest boaters need a pump out 3x - 5x as often and suffer reefer power requirements daily.

 

[Kintala]

Agreed

I have to say I agree almost 100% with everything Hippocampus has said. We cruised full time for six years on a very blue water capable Tartan 42 and are now preparing to transition to a trawler. The Tartan was a bit of a thoroughbred, built on the old Tartan 41 racing hull. The decks were narrow and cluttered and we just found that we were tired of navigating the complex work that was sailing her. I’m also developing a good case of arthritis in my hands, which made it difficult without electric winches, so we’re looking forward to a bit more relaxing on a trawler. Don’t get me wrong- I wouldn’t trade the time sailing for anything, and if I was a bit younger we’d still be on a sailboat, but at 64 I’m tired of always being cold and wet in the cockpit coming down the ICW in October. That’s a game for the young and hardy.

To the OP - when we were deciding to retire onto a boat, we took a couple liveaboard courses to help us decide what kind of boat to buy. I highly recommend a one-on-one school over just a captained charter. You still get the experience along with valuable knowledge. They are generally cheaper than charters as well so they’re a good value. A captained charter is more like a vacation and doesn’t really give you a feel for the challenges that come with full time living aboard.

If I might, I’d also like to suggest a book that my husband and I wrote called How NOT to Buy a Cruising Boat, which details ad nauseum our process and answers a lot of your questions. It was written about our search for a sailboat, but the principles apply to power as well. It’s available on Amazon.

Best of luck on your search,
Deb

 

[ProMaritime]

Catamarans, both power and sail (I've owned both) are generally more comfortable than either mono-hull sail boats (which I also own) or trawlers, to a point. Enough wind will make anything that floats uncomfortable and possibly dangerous. Experience on the water is what counts. If you don't have it don't push yourself or your boat.

 

[SoWhat]

All boats roll. My deep keel sailboat would head into heavy seas that I would not dare approach in my SD trawler. But I think the fundamental issue for us 'older' folk is being out in the elements. After a bout with melanoma, sailboat cockpits are out. We are now inside in a shady comfortable helm.
We did not have a hard dodger, electric winches, or cockpit heating. Too many hours getting drenched, long cold hours at the wheel, green water over the head adjusting a whisker pole,
Now experimenting with noise canceling headsets. 2 diesels under the feet are a bit loud

 

[markpierce]

My boat bucks when hitting a steep five-foot wave, burying the anchor. An I've experienced several times being knocked down with strong winds from the stern on a sailboat. Nature is master.

 

[tomfive]

Trawler boom sail

Sailboats may heel in a significant wind, but they are stable in that mode, more so than a trawler. A trawler even a blue water capable one like the Nordhavn will bounce around more than a sailboat will. Dynamic stabilizers will help with this though.

And the majority of sailboats are stable and strong enough to make a blue water passage. Not so with most trawlers.

David

My trawler has a boom, and I've thought about installing a sail to help stabilize in a broad reach situation. Has anyone out there had success using a trawler boom sail? I'm sure paravanes are much better, but probably overkill for my inside passage trips.

 

[Phil Enscoe]

Last year I bought my trawler (36' Albin) after being a sailor for 50+ years. I love my trawler, but I would have to admit that I would rather be in my old sailboat in bad weather than in the trawler. The trawler rolls a lot more than the sailboat did especially when under sail. On the positive note, the trawler has improved our speed from approximately 6 mph to 8.5 mph. That doesn't seem like much, but its a 42% improvement. In terms of living space and comfort, there is no comparison. The trawler wins, hands down!!!

 

[mvweebles]

My trawler has a boom, and I've thought about installing a sail to help stabilize in a broad reach situation. Has anyone out there had success using a trawler boom sail? I'm sure paravanes are much better, but probably overkill for my inside passage trips.

Many trawlers have a boom to support lifting tackle for the dinghy. Willard traditionally fit a somewhat taller mast and longer boom (see my avatar pic), and most came with a steadying sail.

In my experience, they take a half-a-hurricane on the beam to set the boat enough to make much of a difference. Just not enough sail area. Not worth the trouble.

There are several folks who will state they make a difference, but generally seems to be based on theory - if it doesn't work, then it must not be a flat enough sail or something. All I can tell you is despite being moderator of Willard Boat Owners for 20+ years and having this discussion with dozens of owners, few set a sail for more than salty appearance.

In short, I wouldn't bother with a steadying sail. If you discover otherwise, please let me know.

Peter