Does anybody know what these are from my fresh water tank?

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OK well I appreciate you guys sharing your thoughts and expertise. I reached out to a company called Trac Ecology Green Products on Peggy's guidance. They have a product called PSR that might work, but it will be pricey.
Bud
 
Hi Bud,

I'm still in the dark about your concerns with your water tanks. Do you have some specific reasons to believe they're contaminated with health-threatening contaminants, and unsafe for drinking water? And if you're concerned about health, how about the rest of your water system (water lines, water heater, faucets, etc.? Or do you simply want to convert them to diesel tankage?

FYI, both CLR and Trac's Barnacle Buster contain acids. CLR is lactic acid, Barnacle Buster is phosphoric acid. Both are perfectly safe, WHEN USED AS DIRECTED! And cleaning the interior of an aluminum water tank is firmly out of both company's usage directives. So be aware. In my opinion, using any acid to clean the interior of an aluminum tank is problematic. There's highly likely spots in the tank you can't reach or flush (like behind the baffles, in the corners, welded seams, etc. that will trap the acid, leading to leakage later.

Regards,

Pete
 
I appreciate your thoughts on this ( except the wise ass part} I dropped off a sample of deposits from my tank to TRAC Ecological in Fort Lauderdale today. They will determine what it is and discuss possible treatment pros and cons. The product they were talking about was PSR. I have not verifyed with them but I am pretty sure acid can be nuetralized after the fact with baking soda or soda ash. I had a battery crack open in a wooden boat once and the battery manufacturer told me that. I did it and had no problems.

I did treat the plumbing and water heater with chlorine
Bud
 
Little bleach and water, I always add bleach to my water prevents alga growth and other nastiest, Drinking water always separated.
 
Here is a spec sheet on the product they recommend.
 

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The CLR disolved the one piece over 24 hours. The piece in the vinegar is still whole. The directions on the CLR bottle says don't use on aluminum. It would nice to find something to treat tank with that could loosen that stuff up.
Bud
I had the same situation in a 44 ft sailboat I owned. 2 custom made aluminum. Filled with white mushrooms !!! Fortunately they had 12x12 access plates. Local water company tested them and YES they were Aluminum Oxide. Had the entire inner tank surfaces scraped clean and scrubbed clean to bare metal. There were lots of pits centered on the mushrooms. Filled all the pits with epoxy glue. Then coated the entire surfaces with food rated epoxy--- 2 coats. (Very Nasty Job) Never ever have Aluminum water tanks in a boat or anywhere else!!!
 
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Hi Geoleo,

That's great information. Thanks for sharing. Yours is the first confirmation of the actual nature of my "crusticles", your "mushrooms", and (I expect) Bud's deposits on the interior of his tank walls. The non-corrosive property of aluminum is often touted as its ability to naturally form aluminum oxide on its surface when in contact with air. There's a number of unpainted boats (hulls and topsides) on the market that appeal to many (myself included), as they don't require the typical maintenance issues (wax, paint) associated with other materials to maintain their structural integrity or appearance. And, because of their appearance, many find them too industrial and just plain ugly. To each his own, for sure.

But I've never found an explanation why this oxide, so benign on the exterior surface of aluminum, forms these damaging deposits on the inside of water tanks! I'm guessing it has something to do with the unique nature of the water contained within the tank, the relatively quiescent nature of the water within the tank, the presence of oxygen on the surface of the water, and who knows what else. The end result of this chemical and metallurgical mish-mash seems to be the alloying elements within the aluminum itself are drawn out of the tank walls, leaving a void (corrosion pit) underneath, ultimately leading to failure.

And of course, how to prevent them, or remove and mitigate their presence after the fact. The obvious solution is not to use aluminum for water tanks, which in a new build or a refit is an option. For those of us with aluminum tanks in place, I'm at a loss. Dealing with biologics in the water supply is amply covered by Peggy Hall and others. But I've not found any sound method of preventing this oxidation phenomenon from occurring. Perhaps a reverse osmosis treatment of ALL incoming tank water from day-1 of ownership would remove some of the "bad actors" such as chlorine and dissolved mineral salts commonly found in municipal water that (perhaps) contribute to these encrustations. Again, OK on a new build, but perhaps not much help 10-20 years down the road. And mitigation after the fact? Sheesh-there's a complex topic!

And, in my very personal opinion on the health aspects of drinking from such an encrusted tank, I'm OK with that. Assuming the biologics (and I include viruses as well) are dealt with in my water system, I'll continue drinking water from my aluminum tank aboard my boat, and live with the knowledge that they're probably crusticles growing on my tank walls. Your mileage may vary here, of course.

I feel I'm beating this poor horse to death, and the topic is perhaps more appropriate on some professional forum. Perhaps our professional brethren lurking on this forum might chime in here, and volunteer to launch such a discussion amongst their peers? And share the results? Oh please, oh please!!!!!

Regards,

Pete
 
" Perhaps a reverse osmosis treatment of ALL incoming tank water from day-1 of ownership would remove some of the "bad actors" such as chlorine and dissolved mineral salts commonly found in municipal water that (perhaps) contribute to these encrustations. "


I'm not familiar with aluminum water tanks specifically, but the very pure nature of some drinking water and of RO water might be a contributing factor to the problem. Very pure 'unbuffered' water could magnify the problem if, say, the oxidation reaction was acidic. A small amount of bicarbonate in the water might buffer the reaction with the aluminum. I would defer to the aluminum experts here.
 
Greetings,
Buffering, in some form, may lessen reactivity but it's been so long since "Chem 101" (~50 yrs) that this is a WAG at best. VERY pure water is extremely reactive/corrosive.
One of my former clients was working with UHP (Ultra High Purity-sub ppb) water and using gold plated SS vessels. They had a very short lifespan due to the gold coating corroding. I ended up making him glass vessels which did last substantially longer.
 
Yuck

Ok, some very good technical answers here. But come on, this day and age let’s not poo poo some good ole fashioned humor. The first few answers had me chuckling. Last few answers leave me wondering how I’m gonna get my tanks inspected. It’s all good brothers.
 
Filter your water

As a precaution for future, I would suggest you use a charcoal filter when filling your tanks to help prevent the reaction between the chlorine and aluminum in your tanks.
 
grumpyfnq

Been through same problem in long term fresh water aluminium tanks. Hard white nodules blocking outlet, filter etc.
But please not too many technical questions to a non-chemist.

But I understand the hard white bits are harmless regarding use of water but is a product of corrosion inside the tank and will eventually lead to tank failure.

Solution I was given was magnesium anodes as are fitted to hot water systems and magnesium erosion will protect aluminium against corrosion as per cathodic protection of steel by zinc anodes. Installed in tanks and issue has gone away over some years.

It was all news to me at the time but apparently well understood by corrosion experts.
 
Aluminum is not a good choice for water tanks (ABYC H-23). Aluminum and the chlorine found in city water do not go together.

Now if changing them is an option, it might be a good thing to do. If not, there are many commercial cleaners out there.

Once you get the tanks clean, let me recommend using a Camco 40042 TastePURE Filter to clean the water going into the tanks.

It will take out the chlorine and almost everything else in the water (read the lengthy spec list). You can get them at Walmart or via Amazon for about $14.00 each and they'll last around 6 months to a year depending on the amount of usage and state of the water you're filtering. On the loop, in the northeast, some of the water in the smaller city marinas was sooooo dirty, the filters would last about three months.

When we first bought our boat 2001 DeFever in 2005, it took us five full tank flushings over a three month period to clean our two 175 gal stainless tanks to get clear, clean, odorless water. Garbage in, garbage out. (10 loads of laundry took care of 350 gallons).

Opened the tanks on our boat after about a year of using nothing but the Camco filters (mostly used by RVers) when filling the tanks. They were spotless.

Always used the water in the tanks to keep it circulating (never used the tank bypass).

If your "under the sink" or "before the shower" filters need frequent cleaning or replacement, then take a look at cleaning the water before you put it in your tanks.

In your case, until you get the slime out of the tanks or replace them, I would suggest filtering the water before you consume it, wash with it, do dishes with it, etc.
 
just curious

could you send a picture of the inspection plate you installed? I need one for my water tank as well. I have heard about some that are digital.
 
Take a sample to a lab.
If you look on eBay you can see 'Eddy' electronic water softeners on sale, buy the larger one suitable for a 4 bedroom house. If you buy on eBay UK even including the shipping its cheaper than buying eBay In the US. They're made in the US, crazy I know.
I found on our boat they save the build up of calcium which is in part reacting with your aluminium. If the 'crusticles' dissolve in 12% white vinegar you have your answer.
 
I just installed a inspection plate in my fresh water tank and In the process of cleaning it out I was finding these deposits. They break apart easy. Maybe calcium? I also am wondering what to clean it with.

Bud

I suspect it's calcium carbonate. Nothing else. Drop some brick cleaner (hydrochloric acid) on it and see if it fizzles before disappearing.

Common problem.
 
I hate to tell youthis

Bud, I don’t know how old you are but I am just going to say two words: Jimmie Hoffa. We thought no one would ever find him.
 
Yes my tanks are aluminum

I wholeheartedly agree with HypnoBob and others, aluminum is a very poor material choice for water tanks, however, I disagree with the suggestion that chlorine be removed from water entering the tank. If you remove the chlorine from the water you'll have much bigger problems than these nodules. I've learned this lesson the hard way using carbon pre-filters for tank filling. Without chlorine the water in your tanks will develop a mold and/or bacteria based bio-colony. You can use a sediment pre-filter for water being run into tanks, just not filters designed to neutralize chlorine.

Interestingly, aluminum tanks are more likely to develop aluminum hydroxide deposits when using reverse osmosis water, as it's slightly acidic (leeman touched on this). I've encountered this on a few Nordic Tugs and GB's with water makers, when the tanks are filled with RO water, the production of aluminum hydroxide goes up noticeably. Some water maker manufacturers actually offer a "filter" that introduces some minerals back into the water to bring the ph closer to neutral, as the acidic water can dull marble and granite, as well as cause Al tank issue.

There isn't a good or easy solution for aluminum water tanks, however, you can install a strainer before the pump (it should have one anyway) and a whole house/boat sediment filter after the pump to remove any that are picked up in the intake.

For more on potable water systems and tanks see https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/potable-water-systems/ It covers the de-chlorination issue.

The attached photo is of the inside of a 15-year old Grand Banks aluminum water tank.
 

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Ok, some very good technical answers here. But come on, this day and age let’s not poo poo some good ole fashioned humor. The first few answers had me chuckling. Last few answers leave me wondering how I’m gonna get my tanks inspected. It’s all good brothers.

I got a good chuckle out of them too!
 
I just installed a inspection plate in my fresh water tank and In the process of cleaning it out I was finding these deposits. They break apart easy. Maybe calcium? I also am wondering what to clean it with.

Bud

Whatever you do, don't sleep next to them. They will steal your brain and you will turn into an alien! I swear it's true. It happened to my brother!
 
I just installed a inspection plate in my fresh water tank and In the process of cleaning it out I was finding these deposits. They break apart easy. Maybe calcium? I also am wondering what to clean it with.

Bud

I have SS tanks and have never had that specific problem although I have had dark blobs of algae that seem to form on hot summer days. Anyway, with regards to your question "what to clean it with", don't laugh but I actually use cognac (a cheap one, not Louis XIII) to wash the inside surfaces of my water tank. It is 50% alcohol so disinfects well and leaves no chemical residue or taste. It is a little bit more expensive than chemical cleaners but it does a great job and cleaning the tank is a lot more fun.
 
I just installed a inspection plate in my fresh water tank and In the process of cleaning it out I was finding these deposits. They break apart easy. Maybe calcium? I also am wondering what to clean it with.

Bud

Aluminum is not good for storing water. It does not rust but corrodes creating aluminum oxide, that white slimy stuff which, hardens when it dries. We have some aluminum reservoirs in the lab which, we use to store and transfer tap water to environmental test chambers. We have gone away from aluminum to acrylic. Aluminum will supposedly corrode very slowly in pure water with a neutral pH but tap water is usually alkaline (above 7 pH) and also has chlorine in it in some areas plus algae. It just does not do well with aluminum even if it's anodized. The smallest scratch in the anodization and corrosion starts. Once aluminum starts to corrode it's done.

I suggest replacing the tanks with plastic or fiberglass. Sorry about the bad news. I suppose you could try to treat the water to bring the pH as close to 7 as possible. That would probably help but it's very hard to maintain a constant pH. We don't even try.

I don't know why manufacturers insist on using aluminum for water applications. It just doesn't hold up.
 
"I don't know why manufacturers insist on using aluminum for water applications."


Its quick , cheap and tanks of any size can be had locally.
 
Is there any simple test I can do to find out what it is or at least rule something out.
Bud

Simple test, flash light and look inside.
Use your wet vac to suck out the pieces.
 
Steve there's no one else I'd rather get an answer from and since we're on the topic what would be your suggestion to remove said deposits?

I would use the aforementioned TracEcological product, PSR. I've had excellent results with all of their products. Ultimately, however, the best way to remove deposits like these is manually, i.e. access each baffled chamber and was/scoop them out (use only plastic tools, no metal, copper, brass or even stainless, all of which are anodic to aluminum). The aforementioned Sea Built inspection ports are a good way to do that if you don't have clear access.

If it's not practical, I would not worry too much about getting everything out, get it as clean as you can, then be sure to use a strainer before the pump, and a filter after the pump.
 
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