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Old 06-14-2020, 09:57 AM   #1
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Do you think this is a good idea?

Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?

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Old 06-14-2020, 10:04 AM   #2
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NO. 55-gal drums? 7.6 pounds per gallon is 2500 pounds give or take. If it did not roll the boat over at the dock, it might just crush the structure.
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Old 06-14-2020, 10:04 AM   #3
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No sir. I would prefer bladders, and as low as possible.
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Old 06-14-2020, 10:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
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Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?

Jim
Isn't there still fuel available at Shearwater (I haven't checked today)? Wouldn't a better approach be to spend some time on the phone checking on fuel availability and make the route accordingly?

As for Cape Caution, waiting in Port Hardy for a window of opportunity seems like an easy matter. When I was there last year, our rounding of CC was in swells of less than 1.0m, chop of <0.1m. Easy, but the following day was forecast to have more chop.
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Old 06-14-2020, 10:38 AM   #5
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Why would some one need that much fuel to get around Cape Caution. Is this camp fuel being delivered?
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Old 06-14-2020, 12:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCAVE View Post
Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?

Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltrider1 View Post
Why would some one need that much fuel to get around Cape Caution. Is this camp fuel being delivered?
Same here, why are you carrying that much fuel?

It is 130 miles from Port McNiell to Shearwater.
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Old 06-14-2020, 12:26 PM   #7
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Questions, Questions!

I’m in Port Hardy. The vessel in question is going well past Shearwater.

A correction: 7 barrels of a “pink” liquid. I’m guessing it’s not antifreeze or hand soap.
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Old 06-14-2020, 01:21 PM   #8
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It would be an issue in my mind as to how do you secure them securely? You may plan on good weather but just in case of weather changes they had better be well secured. On most recreational boats there are not many places to tie off for that amount of weight. The fittings better be through bolted and backed up with good sized backing plates. I agree that a bladder would be preferred. Also the bladder will roll up when empty and you don’t have to store the empties.
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Old 06-14-2020, 04:16 PM   #9
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I wouldn't do it, with that much weight up high and the variability of the conditions you might face at CC, even with favorable weather predictions.
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Old 06-14-2020, 04:20 PM   #10
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For me it would depend.

One, how much would that change my draft..... and overall stability.

Two, how easy to dump overboard in an emergency.....

Three, do I have deck space and tie down points suitable.

Four, how much do I trust weather forecasting.
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Old 06-14-2020, 05:35 PM   #11
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2,500 pounds is not an awfully lot for a boat that size. My 36 carries 1,500 pounds of water and probably about 2,000 pounds of fuel. The problem is that you already have your fuel tanks, water tanks and all provisions on board.

That extra 2,500 pounds, being on deck is an invitation for disaster. Don't do it. If it doesn't crush the deck, ruin your floor or make you so top heavy you will roll over in a swell it just might work but not worth the risk, IMHO.

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Old 06-14-2020, 05:50 PM   #12
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Without stability info.....NO ONE can predict the stability of adding weight on deck.

To support, again it is dependent on boat construction and where the containers are stored.

While trying it could lead to disaster if no homework was done....doing the right amount could lead to a realistic idea that it is possible.
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Old 06-14-2020, 06:44 PM   #13
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I wouldn't do it, with that much weight up high and the variability of the conditions you might face at CC, even with favorable weather predictions.
+1
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Old 06-14-2020, 07:11 PM   #14
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Without stability info.....NO ONE can predict the stability of adding weight on deck.

To support, again it is dependent on boat construction and where the containers are stored.

While trying it could lead to disaster if no homework was done....doing the right amount could lead to a realistic idea that it is possible.
Good advice.

Don't want the CBC to have another disaster to report. Remember this one, only 5 yrs ago, in open water, passenger weight up high, it only took one rogue wave.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40268008
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Old 06-14-2020, 09:03 PM   #15
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The fuel savings is not worth the risk!
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Old 06-14-2020, 09:45 PM   #16
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Disclaimer: Much of my stabililty understanding, study and experience is for vessels considerably lager than a 38 - 40 ft boat.

Before going too far I would apply a reasonableness test.

Avg weight of #2 diesel is 7.2 lbs / gal. Average because weight per volume changes with temperature, but 7.2 is more than close enough for this.

55 gal per drum = 396 lbs / drum of fuel, not accounting for the drum weight.

6 drums = 2376 lbs, again not accounting for drum weight.

How many 200 lb friends would you let up on the upper deck of a 40 ft boat? 2376 / 200 - 11.88. Add in the weight of the drums and lashing gear and you have roughly 12 of your 200 lb friends up there.

So, the reasonableness test. Would you let 12 of your 200 lb friends ride on the upper deck rounding Cape Caution? An area well known for heavy weather and rough seas?

This scenario surely fails my reasonableness test.

To go any further I'd need good stability info.

Is it worth the risk without a sability study? In my opinon definitely not.

It is worth the expense of a stability study give the above reasonablenss test? Probably not.

Can you find any hydrostatic data on a Tolly? Probably not given how long ago the company closed it's doors.

And, speaking from personal experience. I've owned a 40 ft Tolly and would never dream of letting 12 200 puunders up there, even at the dock.
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Old 06-15-2020, 07:05 AM   #17
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In case some of you have not seen what can happen when to much weight is put up high on the bridge.
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Old 06-15-2020, 07:38 AM   #18
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Jim, what’s the context for the question? Did you see someone heading out like this?
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Old 06-15-2020, 07:47 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?

Jim
JD

Is it safe to assume a diesel powered vessel?

A relative's boat rounded Cape Caution on June 13th. He sent me some enroute pictures. The water was like glass. Very rare and not predictable until one gets out there.

The Tolly guy hopefully knows how to be weather smart and adroit at transferring fuel continually from higher to lower tanks. But as mentioned, topping up in Shearwater is easy enough to do.
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Old 06-15-2020, 08:13 AM   #20
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We had a big Marine Trader turn over in flat calm water inshore. 30 or so booze cruisers (half on the bridge deck) leaning over the starboard rail to look at the dolphins. Didn't help that the owner tried unsuccessfully for 2 hours to top off the water tank.
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