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06-14-2020, 09:57 AM
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#1
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Guru
City: North Vancouver
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,871
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Do you think this is a good idea?
Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?
Jim
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06-14-2020, 10:04 AM
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#2
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Guru
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,977
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NO. 55-gal drums? 7.6 pounds per gallon is 2500 pounds give or take. If it did not roll the boat over at the dock, it might just crush the structure.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
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06-14-2020, 10:04 AM
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#3
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Guru
City: Sea of Cortez, Mexico
Vessel Name: Irene
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 40II
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,234
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No sir. I would prefer bladders, and as low as possible.
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Jeff
MV IRENE
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06-14-2020, 10:36 AM
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#4
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TF Site Team
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCAVE
Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?
Jim
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Isn't there still fuel available at Shearwater (I haven't checked today)? Wouldn't a better approach be to spend some time on the phone checking on fuel availability and make the route accordingly?
As for Cape Caution, waiting in Port Hardy for a window of opportunity seems like an easy matter. When I was there last year, our rounding of CC was in swells of less than 1.0m, chop of <0.1m. Easy, but the following day was forecast to have more chop.
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Keith
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06-14-2020, 10:38 AM
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#5
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,281
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Why would some one need that much fuel to get around Cape Caution. Is this camp fuel being delivered?
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06-14-2020, 12:26 PM
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#6
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCAVE
Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?
Jim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltrider1
Why would some one need that much fuel to get around Cape Caution. Is this camp fuel being delivered?
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Same here, why are you carrying that much fuel?
It is 130 miles from Port McNiell to Shearwater.
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06-14-2020, 12:26 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: North Vancouver
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,871
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Questions, Questions!
I’m in Port Hardy. The vessel in question is going well past Shearwater.
A correction: 7 barrels of a “pink” liquid. I’m guessing it’s not antifreeze or hand soap.
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06-14-2020, 01:21 PM
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#8
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
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It would be an issue in my mind as to how do you secure them securely? You may plan on good weather but just in case of weather changes they had better be well secured. On most recreational boats there are not many places to tie off for that amount of weight. The fittings better be through bolted and backed up with good sized backing plates. I agree that a bladder would be preferred. Also the bladder will roll up when empty and you don’t have to store the empties.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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06-14-2020, 04:16 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: Bellingham WA
Vessel Name: Hatt Trick
Vessel Model: 45' Hatteras Convertible
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,971
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I wouldn't do it, with that much weight up high and the variability of the conditions you might face at CC, even with favorable weather predictions.
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Ken on Hatt Trick
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06-14-2020, 04:20 PM
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#10
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
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For me it would depend.
One, how much would that change my draft..... and overall stability.
Two, how easy to dump overboard in an emergency.....
Three, do I have deck space and tie down points suitable.
Four, how much do I trust weather forecasting.
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06-14-2020, 05:35 PM
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#11
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Guru
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,145
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2,500 pounds is not an awfully lot for a boat that size. My 36 carries 1,500 pounds of water and probably about 2,000 pounds of fuel. The problem is that you already have your fuel tanks, water tanks and all provisions on board.
That extra 2,500 pounds, being on deck is an invitation for disaster. Don't do it. If it doesn't crush the deck, ruin your floor or make you so top heavy you will roll over in a swell it just might work but not worth the risk, IMHO.
pete
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06-14-2020, 05:50 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
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Without stability info.....NO ONE can predict the stability of adding weight on deck.
To support, again it is dependent on boat construction and where the containers are stored.
While trying it could lead to disaster if no homework was done....doing the right amount could lead to a realistic idea that it is possible.
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06-14-2020, 06:44 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: San Diego
Vessel Name: Circuit Breaker
Vessel Model: 2021..22' Duffy Cuddy cabin
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken E.
I wouldn't do it, with that much weight up high and the variability of the conditions you might face at CC, even with favorable weather predictions.
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+1
__________________
Done with diesel power boats! Have fallen in love with all electric!
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06-14-2020, 07:11 PM
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#14
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TF Site Team
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
Without stability info.....NO ONE can predict the stability of adding weight on deck.
To support, again it is dependent on boat construction and where the containers are stored.
While trying it could lead to disaster if no homework was done....doing the right amount could lead to a realistic idea that it is possible.
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Good advice.
Don't want the CBC to have another disaster to report. Remember this one, only 5 yrs ago, in open water, passenger weight up high, it only took one rogue wave.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40268008
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Keith
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06-14-2020, 09:03 PM
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#15
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Veteran Member
City: Pensacola
Vessel Name: Always Late
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 44 DC
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 94
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The fuel savings is not worth the risk!
Gary
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06-14-2020, 09:45 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Coupeville Wa.
Vessel Name: Pacific Myst
Vessel Model: West Bay 4500
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,402
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Disclaimer: Much of my stabililty understanding, study and experience is for vessels considerably lager than a 38 - 40 ft boat.
Before going too far I would apply a reasonableness test.
Avg weight of #2 diesel is 7.2 lbs / gal. Average because weight per volume changes with temperature, but 7.2 is more than close enough for this.
55 gal per drum = 396 lbs / drum of fuel, not accounting for the drum weight.
6 drums = 2376 lbs, again not accounting for drum weight.
How many 200 lb friends would you let up on the upper deck of a 40 ft boat? 2376 / 200 - 11.88. Add in the weight of the drums and lashing gear and you have roughly 12 of your 200 lb friends up there.
So, the reasonableness test. Would you let 12 of your 200 lb friends ride on the upper deck rounding Cape Caution? An area well known for heavy weather and rough seas?
This scenario surely fails my reasonableness test.
To go any further I'd need good stability info.
Is it worth the risk without a sability study? In my opinon definitely not.
It is worth the expense of a stability study give the above reasonablenss test? Probably not.
Can you find any hydrostatic data on a Tolly? Probably not given how long ago the company closed it's doors.
And, speaking from personal experience. I've owned a 40 ft Tolly and would never dream of letting 12 200 puunders up there, even at the dock.
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06-15-2020, 07:05 AM
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#17
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Guru
City: La Conner Wa.
Vessel Name: Sea Fever
Vessel Model: Defever 49 RPH
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 877
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In case some of you have not seen what can happen when to much weight is put up high on the bridge.
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06-15-2020, 07:38 AM
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#18
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,076
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Jim, what’s the context for the question? Did you see someone heading out like this?
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
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06-15-2020, 07:47 AM
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#19
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCAVE
Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?
Jim
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JD
Is it safe to assume a diesel powered vessel?
A relative's boat rounded Cape Caution on June 13th. He sent me some enroute pictures. The water was like glass. Very rare and not predictable until one gets out there.
The Tolly guy hopefully knows how to be weather smart and adroit at transferring fuel continually from higher to lower tanks. But as mentioned, topping up in Shearwater is easy enough to do.
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06-15-2020, 08:13 AM
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#20
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Scraping Paint
City: HILTON HEAD ISLAND
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 186
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We had a big Marine Trader turn over in flat calm water inshore. 30 or so booze cruisers (half on the bridge deck) leaning over the starboard rail to look at the dolphins. Didn't help that the owner tried unsuccessfully for 2 hours to top off the water tank.
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