Do I need a Shipwright?

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FreeSpiritSue

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
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26
Location
Australia
Hi everyone
I have a lean to starboard & wondering which professional is suited for the job.
After buying the boat, I stripped it if toilet, 240v oven 2 fridges which were all on starboard & it still leans. I found in the v berth locker on port side a large bag of graphite & also in locker in midship bed, a bag of cement. This is obviously to counter balance a weight issue. The tilt seems more pronounced on the aft deck. It’s a Cuddles 30’ flybridge cruiser which has stabilizers added. I was wondering if the problem could be the stabilizer? There’s no water in the Hull. Appreciate your advice. Thanks. Sue
 
I'm not familiar with the terminology used down your way. I would think any good marine engineer would be able to advise on what should be done and how to do it safely.
 
Location and content of fuel, water, and holding tanks? Liquids are one of the biggest variables in trim. I would keep looking for other items. Battery location?

Ted
 
Assuming the "stabilizers" are bilge keels, the added weight is likely to be equal both sides. OCD`s pointers are good, more sleuthing required. Did removing the items make a difference?
 
Ted has asked the right questions.

Sorry I have nothing useful to add but graphite? You mean the black stuff in pencils? Where do you even get a bag of graphite?
 
Put all the stuff back in its place and start again.

How far from level is the boat?

I used bags of shotgun pellets on my Nordhavn.
If you ballast high it will take less ballast but, totally mess with the roll recovery.
Ballast below the water line and midship.
Another option, if you have a method of transferring fuel, move fuel port to starboard or vice versa and see if you can re-level the boat. Can be as simple as changing the return to the desired tank.
If you do not have a level, use a empty bottle or can. I have been told that works like a level too.
Once you get the boat level again, install an inclinometer.
 
Last edited:
New boats are balanced by design, but owners add and remove items that can cause a list. Most people use cement because it's cheap, comes in bags, and with water will form fit to a space. Just make sure any ballast can't move, no matter how much the vessel rolls. You don't want ballast suddenly on the wrong side. And you don't want sand in the bilge pump.

I have about 2 tons of ballast. Mostly to sit lower for a better ride but also to make up for heavy items in the wrong place.



 
Hi Sue.
These boats are very susceptible to listing (leaning) to one side or the other due to the round bilge hull shape. More so than any other boat I know of. The hull is very "tender" which has its pluses and minuses. A small difference in weight distribution is noticeable, whereas with a hard chined (squared off) hull shape generally sits flatter on the water and requires a bigger weight imbalance to cause a pronounced list.

I find the biggest factor with my Cuddles listing is the level in the water tanks. Because they are built into each outer side of the hull, a small difference makes a pronounced list. The fuel tanks are closer to the centre line, and although they may also affect the balance, it is not as much.

The first thing I'd suggest is to make sure both water tanks are full. Top each one up at each fill point; don't rely on the hose runs between them. See if that makes a difference to how the boat sits. I would also suggest to keep only one tank valve open (the low side) to supply water to your fresh water pump.

What I find with my boat if both supply valves are open, and there is a small imbalance in the boat, the water will run from the high side tank to the low side and it slowly makes the listing worse. The more the boat lists, the more water flows to the low side continuing to exacerbate the problem.

I use my water tanks as the primary means of keeping the boat balanced. As the water tank on one side is used and the other side becomes heavier, I swap over to using water from the low side again. Try that. Its much cheaper than hiring a shipwright.
 
Thanks Ted. I have a 300 litre water tank on starboard & port just under saloon so I haven’t filled the starboard side. The same with fuel tanks. Not sure how much they hold but there’s none in the starboard. So it’s a bit of a mystery.
 
Sue,
Please follow the suggestions of Ted and others above. Transfer fuel and or water. As a ballpark, fuel and water are roughly eight pounds per gallon, and moving small amounts can make a Hugh difference. I move fuel to balance the boat all the time.
Best of luck
 
Thanks I’ll try that. I’ve kept water out of the starboard tank & turned the valve off. If it’s just the Hull shape, we’ll, I can live with that. But as i’ve Stripped it I haven’t yet put in the toilet, stove, fridge which will all be on the starboard side. Loving the boat though.
 
I had a listing issue on a previous boat. I ended up glassing in several hundreds of pounds of lead. Lead works well because it is so heavy versus it’s size. But for that same reason must be well secured.
 
FreeSpiritSue said:
Thanks I’ll try that. I’ve kept water out of the starboard tank & turned the valve off. If it’s just the Hull shape, we’ll, I can live with that. But as i’ve Stripped it I haven’t yet put in the toilet, stove, fridge which will all be on the starboard side. Loving the boat though.
Click to expand...


You told us in your first post that your boat lists to starboard, even after you removed a bunch of stuff from the starboard side. We then suggest that fuel and water are your likely culprits and that maybe you should check your tankage. You are a very patient woman. My wife would have given me a look and said something along the lines of “What do you take me for? An idiot?”

Your boat lists to starboard even without the toilet, stove, and fridge installed on the starboard side. This is without any fuel or water on that side AND a bunch of extra ballast on the port side. Once you add your appliances the list will be presumably be worse and that is with you only being able to use half your fuel or water capacity. I’m certainly stumped.

Maybe you should consider someone like a shipwright?

Oh wait, that was your original question.... ;-)

Maybe a really good surveyor? I don’t know anything about the boat. If the the hull or decks are cored could massive water intrusion on the starboard side cause it? Are there any voids in the boat on the starboard side that could have filled with water? It is hard to imagine that the boat would have left the builder with that much of an imbalance and yet your finding the ballast indicates that the prior owner at some point was trying to correct a long standing problem.

I can only wish you luck.
 
FreeSpiritSue said:
Thanks I’ll try that. I’ve kept water out of the starboard tank & turned the valve off. If it’s just the Hull shape, we’ll, I can live with that. But as i’ve Stripped it I haven’t yet put in the toilet, stove, fridge which will all be on the starboard side. Loving the boat though.
Click to expand...

Sue - It may be worth double checking to see if you starboard water tank is truly empty. It is possible the hose or valve is blocked up and not allowing water to drain.
Don't worry too much about the stove, toilet and small fridge. The total weight of all of those wouldn't change the weight distribution as much as a quarter tank of water.
 
Are you tied to the dock or under way?

First ONE question. How many degrees off plumb are you?
One or two degrees, I wouldn't worry about it. Off plumb just makes it difficult to get 2 eggs in a small flying pan.

I too have a starboard list but that is because of tying my starboard side to the dock and the breast line and tide.
 
FreeSpiritSue said:
Thanks Ted. I have a 300 litre water tank on starboard & port just under saloon so I haven’t filled the starboard side. The same with fuel tanks. Not sure how much they hold but there’s none in the starboard. So it’s a bit of a mystery.
Click to expand...

One of the challenges with trimming a boat is that there are items such as the galley that usually end up on one side and throw off your trim. As others have mentioned, adjustments can be made with fuel and water to offset this. Unfortunately, with full fuel and water, the list is still there. Sometimes you can stow heavier items on the high side such as drinks, canned goods, tools, and heavy spares to help trim the boat. Worth also noting, the heaviest items, furthest out to the hull, provide the best trimming value. Finally, while ballast placed outboard will solve the problem, adding useful ballast is a better option. A second battery bank or an additional water tank are items that come to mind. Something simple such as additional water in 5 gallon of one gallon jugs can solve trim problems and be useful.

Ted
 
Not sure where you would get graphite in large quantities or at what price, but it is no even close to lead in terms of weight. Specific gravity of graphite is about 2 versus 11 for lead. So graphite is only 2x density of water and lead is 5.5 times heavier per unit of volume than graphite. So, it makes little (no) senses to use graphite for ballast. Should be easy to tell if it really lead shot just be heft.
 
HopCar said:
I should have known! Now why would anyone use graphite as ballast? Concrete is a LOT cheaper and heavier.

I bet the op found a bag of lead shot and thought it was graphite.
Click to expand...


I don't know. Graphite is surprisingly light for it's size.


Matt Jackson makes giant pencils that write with it.



 
You need an understanding dock master , and a few clear days.

EMPTY everything ,lockers, tanks, closets, spares , if it wasn't part of the build , out on the dock it goes.

Then see what you have in the way of a list.
 
What a great idea Ted of using extra batteries & water as ballast! I’m loving this forum for all the insightful knowledge. Thanks
 
FF, that’s what I did when I bought it. First noticed the list when driving it back to the Gold Coast. It’s presently moored at a friend’s jetty until everything is sorted. Thanks
 
Sue,
I think what you are referring to as Graphite is in fact Ilmenite. Very heavy black sand, often used as counterweight in cranes etc.
Rot Twitchin, rod@rtmarine.com.au is a surveyor on the Gold Coast and quite good to deal with. He also does project work.
There are many shipwrights just up the river from you at The Boatworks and Gold Coast City Marina.
 
Our current boat has a bit of a list to starboard. So when we put the equipment onboard everything heavy went on the port side, tools and things like cases of water bottles. It pretty much took care of the list.
 
Comodave said:
I had a listing issue on a previous boat. I ended up glassing in several hundreds of pounds of lead. Lead works well because it is so heavy versus it’s size. But for that same reason must be well secured.
Click to expand...
I use recycled lead shot in 25# bags. On my boat I have spaces where the bags absolutely cannot shift with any boat movement so glassing the lead is not at all necessary. Plus, I have the flexibility of moving weight port and starboard at will. Glass it in and you are stuck with it in place.
 
Our boat had a pretty good list to starboard when we bought it, thanks to the addition of a house bank and inverter by the PO. I upgraded our anchor chain, and tossed the old chain in a port side, waterline cabinet in the aft cabin. Then, moved all my tools to that same cabinet. List gone.
 
I am following this thread with interest as my boat lists to port. The PO apparently installed a house bank of 750 pounds outboard of the port motor. All tanks are athwart ship, so no balancing is available with them. I've tried storing heavy items on the starboard side, but generally just live with the list. I will try some of the ideas mentioned here. Thanks everybody.

Cheers, Bill
 
Arun52 said:
Sue,
I think what you are referring to as Graphite is in fact Ilmenite. Very heavy black sand, often used as counterweight in cranes etc.
Rot Twitchin, rod@rtmarine.com.au is a surveyor on the Gold Coast and quite good to deal with. He also does project work.
There are many shipwrights just up the river from you at The Boatworks and Gold Coast City Marina.
Click to expand...

That's it! I have the same ballast in my Cuddles. I haven't been able to work in out what is was but after googling limonite, it appears to be what they used for ballast in these boats. Mine is in under the centre of the V-berth in a sealed hatch. At first I thought it must be ground up lead but it wasn't heavy enough.

According to goole Limonite is a type of iron ore commonly mined in Australia.
Although not as heavy as lead (slight lower specific gravity than iron), it's a great ballast for filling up a sealed hatch. Being granular, it won't bang around if not fixed in place.
 
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