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Old 11-04-2020, 10:49 AM   #21
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.... and I have traveled for work my entire career, at my own expense and to mostly non glamours places. Even when I visit a cool place for work I am in and out so fast that I get very little feel for it. One night spend in a mid level hotel off of the interstate in one place is pretty much the same as one night spent in any other place.
The one thing that sounds different is that we took a step up into bigger boats about 15 years ago. We bought a 1973 36' Gulfstar in 2005, then moved up into our current 2005 Mainship 400 in 2013. For us, that was a good thing that took some of the steepness out of the learning curve.

Maybe you should buy something now, something more manageable, use it for 5 or 6 years and then sell it? Just a thought.[/QUOTE]


Amen on the travel routine - Although I have been using other peoples money for all expenses! I always longed for the unique in a sea of sameness across the United States. We can be so boring with one city identical to the last. Chain stores and restarants repeat repeat repeat... There are few towns where if you were helicoptered in blindfolded you could tell where you were. That said I truly enjoy(ed) the experience, the people, and finding the unique places.
Okay on to boats....Wish I had moved up early like you but life circumstances dictated otherwise. We had access to a beach house which we now own so it never made sense to buy bigger as that would directly compete against an asset in hand.
Same story today. Don't necessarily want to buy up until we are ready to cruise without worry of pesky work getting in the way and use the beach house during the summer months and my Robalo to stay connected to the water.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:32 PM   #22
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Love your prep! Friendly reminder, being as prepared as you can be and prepared are not necessarily the same thing.

Right now you are evaluating everything based on your personal vision of what you want boating to be like. That vision IS distorted. Humans nearly always apply cognitive dissonance to form biases that only process information that fits their internal model of the world. So in some ways, you will certainly be overconfident as a result of your preparation. Determining what those things are is really really hard, even for those trained in doing so. Professionally, I’m skeptical of people who tell me they have “handled” their biases. I’d rather hear a blanket statement of “here are the areas we are likely biased”, “here are our key assumptions”.
Human nature is to strongly bias towards the information they have, with complete and total disregard for the information they don’t, even when they know their information is incomplete. Anything you can do to remind yourself of the areas that you are unsure of, is worth doing. The absolute worst offenders in this? Ironically, the full time user researchers, often doctorate level, very smart, very capable. Humans just can’t resist crediting themselves with knowing everything and experience actually makes the problem worse. The more you think you know, the less you are willing to observe even obvious things right in front of you. So beware, your prep is commendable, but comes with a dark side.

Many if not most new boaters find that the boat they thought they wanted is ultimately NOT the boat they actually want, once they get a little experience. It would be arrogant to think you are immune. Find a way to go boating in such a way that you can change your mind without losing your war chest. Renting may seem expensive, but weigh it against the realistic costs of buying a second time. Don’t be in a hurry. Just find a way to get out in the areas you want to be in. It’s that simple and that hard!

Best of luck.
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Old 11-04-2020, 02:05 PM   #23
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^ "You don't know what you don't know."

There is a constant running argument on boating and airplane forums about buying small and easy and then working your way "up" through subsequent purchases, vs. "buying your last boat [airplane] first" and methodically (and with expert assistance if necessary) learning how to operate it properly and safely. This assuming that your finances can bear either strategy depending on your individual circumstances.

I have the bug too, and among other things there is a tension between my relative need and desire to be able to single-hand something when the need or desire arises, vs. having the size we need or at least want as a family for voyaging, and the heft and various capacities and features we want for the type of voyaging we think we might do.
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Old 11-04-2020, 02:06 PM   #24
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"[QUOTE=ghost;939725]Love your prep! Friendly reminder, being as prepared as you can be and prepared are not necessarily the same thing. Many if not most new boaters find that the boat they thought they wanted is ultimately NOT the boat they actually want, once they get a little experience. It would be arrogant to think you are immune."


Oh, I am definitely far from Prepared and probably never will be! The Ocean is big and unforgiving - not a place to be cocky. As far a picking the right boat for what I think I want to do...who the heck knows. The F55 is my best guess and I look forward to finding out if she is.

Your other points are all very good. Lest you think otherwise please know I am no doctor! I've succeeded in life not from being the smartest but from being a decent human being. So I hope I don't come across as overconfident...I'll be the first to admit I don't know what I don't know and I am very humble about my research and preparation. It is not absolute for sure - just a beginning!! Keeps me on my toes to be on the lookout for new information and this is a great forum to collect opinions and thoughtful insight such as yours.

Thanks for the input - I will definitely take it to heart.
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Old 11-04-2020, 04:29 PM   #25
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Greetings,
Aside to the other TF members: Heh, heh...Wait until Mr. F. starts asking about anchors.


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Old 11-04-2020, 04:46 PM   #26
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Greetings,
Aside to the other TF members: Heh, heh...Wait until Mr. F. starts asking about anchors.




NOPE - I am half way through Hinz' The Complete Book of Anchoring and my wife and I took the Boaters University's "Anchors and Anchoring" course taught by Chuck Howley.
I am definitely NOT going to risk this kind of investment to poor ground tackle or an insufficient anchor for the bottom you are anchoring in!
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Old 11-04-2020, 04:54 PM   #27
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One of your goals is to single hand the boat. Depending how the boats equipped, it is possible. Of coursed you need to handle your own lines too.
You might investigate wireless controls. Then make a plan.... start main and generator, pull in shore power and then plan which lines to take in when. Then which lines go over first.
When at the helm, who is going to relieve you when you need to relieve yourself? Who's going to relieve you at the helm when you get tired? A trustworthy auto pilot can go a long way to assist you if you are away from shore and not in the shipping lanes.
Soooooooo, I would recommend and encourage you to take someone with you.
Yes, it can be done but, I discourage from trying it for more than a few hours.
You would not be the first person to fall asleep without warning and run the boat into the shore or worse.
Traveling at 7-8 knots can be very boring when alone.
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Old 11-04-2020, 05:07 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by FIRE View Post
.

Amen on the travel routine - Although I have been using other peoples money for all expenses! I always longed for the unique in a sea of sameness across the United States. We can be so boring with one city identical to the last. Chain stores and restarants repeat repeat repeat... There are few towns where if you were helicoptered in blindfolded you could tell where you were. That said I truly enjoy(ed) the experience, the people, and finding the unique places.
Okay on to boats....Wish I had moved up early like you but life circumstances dictated otherwise. We had access to a beach house which we now own so it never made sense to buy bigger as that would directly compete against an asset in hand.
Same story today. Don't necessarily want to buy up until we are ready to cruise without worry of pesky work getting in the way and use the beach house during the summer months and my Robalo to stay connected to the water.
Wifey B: I think you're approaching it all the right way, love your prep. Don't be scared of size, if you can afford the added costs of owning. You're likely use to space in your living arrangements.

Now, have to give you a thought adjustment on sameness across the US. Often times things look the same on the surface. Two house, then really nothing alike. Two meals but one prepared well and one not. Two people but one great to be around and the other a jerk. Well, no two cities in this country the same. You just need to dig deeper and traveling by water allows and encourages that. See them from the water. Walk the city streets when you're not in a hurry. Look at the local arts and crafts. Go to the local museum and find out their history. Look at attractions and see what they're proud of.
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Old 11-04-2020, 05:23 PM   #29
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FIRE: Contrary to some opinions, try and make your next boat your last boat. Just my opinion. You’ve got lots of experience. The only issues with bigger boats are:

1) more careful, and more consideration when docking.
2) more expensive to maintain and for moorage.

If you have the funds and the means, By all means! Buy what you wish. Just make sure that boat is what you want.

7 years into our boat and we have no regrets...except for some “holy shits!” in the maintenance area this year. But then, that comes under 2) above. You often can’t always be prepared for that.

As others have already mentioned, get yourself on lots of boats and then decide. You should also determine if travelling at “X” speed is sufficient for you, or do you want/need more speed? Full displacement boats cannot be made to go faster.

Jim
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Old 11-04-2020, 05:52 PM   #30
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Magna - I have considered between 42' and 55'. Largest boat Ive owned an operated was a 27' Albin Family Cruiser. Today I run a 24' fish boat. My retirement dream boat from about 10 years back was a 44 Nordic Tug with flybridge...Then I saw/considered Full Displacement hulls including Defever, Kady Krogan, Nordhavn, Selene, then shifted to Semi Displacement hulls where I have settled. Looked at Krogan Express, Marlow's, Grand Banks and somewhere in there my favorite .... the Fleming 55. Well engineered and beautiful classic lines.
The jump up scares the living hell out of me!
The Fleming 55’ is an awesome boat. My dream boat. I love the lines. Only down side is the engine room is somewhat tight because they were trying to keep the CG low so something had to give and it was the engine room. But I could learn to live with it and smile from eat to ear.
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Old 11-04-2020, 06:12 PM   #31
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Magna - I have considered between 42' and 55'. Largest boat Ive owned an operated was a 27' Albin Family Cruiser. Today I run a 24' fish boat. My retirement dream boat from about 10 years back was a 44 Nordic Tug with flybridge...Then I saw/considered Full Displacement hulls including Defever, Kady Krogan, Nordhavn, Selene, then shifted to Semi Displacement hulls where I have settled. Looked at Krogan Express, Marlow's, Grand Banks and somewhere in there my favorite .... the Fleming 55. Well engineered and beautiful classic lines.
The jump up scares the living hell out of me!
I think you will be fine with the jump up. I went from 28' to a light (Bayliner 4788) 50' then from 50' to 72' which as you put it, that last jump scared the heck out of me too! I have had the 72' for only 6 months so it is very early days but my observations;
- So much more comfortable, feels solid, like a home.
- Ease of maneuvering. The 50' had twins and I felt was easy to maneuver, without thrusters in most situations. However it was highly subject to wind drift. The 72' is heavy, it does not turn as quickly, as I expected. It is far less subject to wind. It has bow and stern thrusters and I feel that I need them.
- I can walk into my engine room
- I can walk around my bed
- I can climb into many of the other spaces that contain equipment, that on the 50' required reaching in, leaning in for access.
- I am spending a lot of money catching up on deferred maintenance. So far within budget. I haven't been surprised by the incremental cost of repairs to the much larger boat, I budgeted +50% on what I would have spent on the 50' and it is coming within that envelope.

All in all I say the bigger the better, if you can afford the increased costs and can find moorage.

Good luck!
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Old 11-09-2020, 01:09 PM   #32
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I would triple check the insurance... have a friend who owned a 32 foot trawler for about 7 months... before that, he had (and still has) a 20 center console outboard.. The trawler was a total lose in hurricane Sally. Now he has a contract on a 48 foot Navigator. He called Geico/BoatUS and they said they would not insure him because (as they stated to him), "you do not have experience in a boat that big".. Not sure if that is the real reason (or if behind the scenes, it was because he just declared a total loss)... I assume he will find insurance somewhere, but he may be paying more than he wants too.... As you do your research, call like you have for a quote and tell them you have no on the water experience with a boat like this... see what they say...
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Old 11-09-2020, 01:52 PM   #33
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I like what everyone else has offered for advice. All good advice on the technical merits and enthusiasm to make your dream come true! I think the most important piece is to keep the Admiral 100% involved with the planning and dreaming. Together, watch and post process the tons of videos on Youtube like this couple's series/channel .

So long as Covid or other unforeseen problem does not impede us, we will be cutting the cord from our earth-located address next season, and either do the Loop or follow the seasons up and down the eastern seaboard on our trawler, purchased this year after the sale of our home. The best gift I have going for me is a wife who is into this as much as I am. I have a close friend who was less fortunate. He is now continuing his cruising dream but only after an amicable divorce. It was just not her thing.
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Old 11-09-2020, 04:52 PM   #34
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Ditto the recommendation to charter a couple of boats with your partner before you buy. Before we purchased our Mainship 400 we chartered from Southwest Florida Yacht Charters. They have several boats in your size range. They have training Captains available who may be able to qualify you for Chartering on your own and sign you off for big boat insurance. Dreams and reality can be vastly different and it would be nice to be sure you are both on the same track about what type and size of boat to buy. Hate to have to sell and lose 10% commission and sales tax% on a quick resale due to a poor decision. If you plan on cruising the boat, as opposed to having it at dockside for long stretches, my vote is for the smallest boat you will be comfortable living on. Paul. Blue Moon
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Old 11-09-2020, 07:20 PM   #35
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I thought only magazines and periodicals had issues.
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Old 11-09-2020, 07:52 PM   #36
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83GB has a good point.

Insurance companies are asking a lot more questions about the captain's experience. They like to see several years captaining a boat that's of similar size to the new boat.

This is especially true when someone is moving up from a small boat to an expensive and complicated boat like a Flemming 55.

I have a friend who was buying a 50' cat and could not get insurance coverage unless he hired a captain for the first year.
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Old 11-10-2020, 11:52 PM   #37
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I've seen research that says more than 50% of the joy of vacation is the planning and anticipation. Maybe your getting a lot of joy from the planning and anticipation, but the joy of the cruising is wonderfully life changing.
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Old 11-11-2020, 07:18 AM   #38
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Together, watch and post process the tons of videos on Youtube like this couple's series/channel .

Great advice - thanks for your input. I am an avid follower of MVFreedom and did watch that on my own and watched it again with my wife who is all in on our next chapter. Admidtedly I am overly enthusiastic on this topic, (hence my original post) then she so I need to measure the doses of boat talk I subject her to and pepper in conversations about little things like our children and other interests she has. Yes, that was sarcasm.
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Old 11-11-2020, 07:28 AM   #39
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I've seen research that says more than 50% of the joy of vacation is the planning and anticipation. Maybe your getting a lot of joy from the planning and anticipation, but the joy of the cruising is wonderfully life changing.

HA! You are probably right.
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Old 11-11-2020, 07:35 AM   #40
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I have a friend who was buying a 50' cat and could not get insurance coverage unless he hired a captain for the first year.[/QUOTE]


Holy smokes - Hire a captain for the first year? I had always figured if an insurance company was anxious about the risk you would need only get a captains sign off on your ability? Either way I have submitted my experience to several different insurance companies and all have given me a quote without requiring a captain of any sort.
I am thinking I will put together a better boat resume specifically for insurance adjusters that will include my boats owned, training, and general preparedness prior to purchase. Maybe no substitute for big boat ownership but I figure its all about assigning risk. I want them to know I am not a fool with enough money to buy a big boat and arrogance to think I can captain it just because I have money.
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