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Old 09-21-2018, 08:36 PM   #101
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We live aboard our boat along with our animals. I've lived around hurricanes most of my life and folks who had boats simply moved them if they could. Sometimes it didn't help but often moving a few miles made a huge difference.

Know where to go - what little hole will protect from winds etc.

It isn't easy to do it and it isn't easy to know what to do. But that doesn't mean you should just throw up your hands and give up.

Currently I'm figuring out how far we can get in an hour, 2 hours etc in case of a tsunami. Where we are escape on land doesn't look good, especially with our pets in tow. But we are trying to figure it out because it seems like the responsible thing to do.

If you don't live on your boat and it won't cause harm to others if you leave it then leave it. If you don't care about your windows don't board them up. But if you can run upstream where you can be protected from the wind and can deal with the surge then why not do it?
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:58 PM   #102
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That is INCORRECT. It hit 200 miles south of Houston and destroyed two cities with wind and THEN moved north to Houston where the news media was waiting to report on its rain. Little or NO reporting was made on Aransas Pass, and Rockport. The news media cheated us of rightfully owed attention that would have gotten MORE help for the people Because there are more votes in Houston than in those two small towns!!!!!!! Winds were measured at 155 miles an hour just down the street from my house.

We have NOTHING to be thank full about from either the weather or FEMA.

Dont get me going on this point. There are a lot of people here that are madder than hell at the media.


I stand corrected and understand your stance of Harvey’s devastation south of Houston. We faced a similar situation during the aftermath of Katrina where New Orleans got all of the attention the day after the hurricane passed and their levees failed. Nevertheless everyone needs to evaluate their options to move their vessel as part of their hurricane plan.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:21 PM   #103
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Let’s keep the thread on track, “Disturbing report from New Bern, NC“ and not have to move it. Thanks in advance.
Good idea. I’ve spoken to the owner of the Manatee that the thread mentioned to begin with, and at least up to now, they haven’t located the boat. According to the Dockmaster, it’s not visible among the wreckage. The Insurance company has agents searching for it (and I’m sure many others). According to them, they need to find a carcass before settlement.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:23 PM   #104
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I stand corrected and understand your stance of Harvey’s devastation south of Houston. We faced a similar situation during the aftermath of Katrina where New Orleans got all of the attention the day after the hurricane passed and their levees failed. Nevertheless everyone needs to evaluate their options to move their vessel as part of their hurricane plan.

Of course. And you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right......maybe that good.....maybe
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:46 AM   #105
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Hurricsne path foecasting has come a long way recently...this last one was a good example...

Sure people can always come up with an example that may not have been a good one to move for. Heck, out of all the hurticanes in Fl, Alabama, and NJ that were coming my way, maybe 15 of them I was nervous about, I only moved for 2. But I had plans for all. Even counting those from earlier times with lesser forecasting I wouldn't say picking a direction to move was anywhere near a 50/50 guess.

The NHS gives percentages of errors of strike areas for 4 and 5 days out. If it alters course 4 days out, you move appropriately or if you were headed to a plan B or C area that had better protected marinas or hurricane holes, you stop and batten down there.

Most of my boating friends never really give tying up their boat and protecting it from storms much thought. A few do and you can see it how they leave their boat every time they walk away from it For the rest, too many other things are important....till things go wrong in general or in this discussion, the storm is all but here and they are DEMANDING something be done and done quick.

I think some are missing that you dont have to move out of the hurticane area totally, just moving out of the more exposed marinas could be sufficient.....

For those that can move, at least you implemented a thought out plan to mitigate damage. Understandably those that have multiple assets to protect have to prioritize....and the strength and weakness and mostly the implementation should be reflected in insurance premiums.

If it doesnt work, at least you tried to do something positive.
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Old 09-22-2018, 06:30 AM   #106
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Seaford VA is about 170 miles north of New Bern and we hardly got any wind or rain. You don't have to move very far to be outside of the big destruction area. Assuming you know where it will be.
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:09 AM   #107
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That's just not true. The surge was forecast days in advance at 13 to 14 feet and the marina pilings were only 10 feet tall above high water.

How many "days in advance"?

When we decided to move when Sandy threatened, about 4 days in advance of its eventual closest approach, sea states here sucked.

When we've crossed the Neuse River, further toward the Sound... conditions a couple times ranged from very uncomfortable to downright snotty. Wouldn't want to be in that by waiting 'til only 3-5 days in advance of an approaching hurricane.


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Seaford VA is about 170 miles north of New Bern and we hardly got any wind or rain. You don't have to move very far to be outside of the big destruction area. Assuming you know where it will be.
Doesn't seem like all that long a distance, especially for boats like ours... but of course it'd be a longer trip on a slow boat. Maybe not so great for folks who also have to deal with houses and businesses and helping relatives and so forth.

And what if Florence had turned north after all, as a few of the prediction tracks suggested? That knowing "where it will be" is key...


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Old 09-22-2018, 07:18 AM   #108
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How many "days in advance"?

When we decided to move when Sandy threatened, about 4 days in advance of its eventual closest approach, sea states here sucked.

When we've crossed the Neuse River, further toward the Sound... conditions a couple times ranged from uncomfortable to downright snotty. Wouldn't want to be in that only 3-5 days in advance of an approaching hurricane.


-Chris
Something that needs to be factored into any moving plans....open water versus ICW waters plus speed of advance of the storm.....

Based on predictions, I left less than 3 days before Ssndy to my hurricane hole and travelled in great conditions.

Had I had to run up the Delaware, I might have had to leave a day sooner.

Like General Eisenhower said.....
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:09 AM   #109
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Wifey B: We're almost home from three days in NC and SC. There were the storms of 2015, topped by Matthew in 2016, now Florence in 2018. We're a boat forum so we talk boats, but I never once thought of a boat these three days, other than the ones rescuing people. Instead, some harsh realities of how exposed areas of both states are and not just coastal areas, but look at Kinston, in the past, and Lumberton, and Fayetteville and so many areas in SC near the state line. Then a second thing hit me. How poor those living in some of these areas are. Median incomes of the males of $28-29k, of the females of $20-25k. So many mobile homes and so few with flood insurance. People living paycheck to paycheck. 13% to 24% below the poverty line. We had three with us who weren't familiar with these areas and didn't realize how economically disadvantaged they are. Will the few businesses employing them rebuild? I don't know. Is anyone even accounting for them all? We did locate all our employees but we were not in the worse areas and they knew people that they couldn't find. Sure need more satellite phones in events like this so at least someone can update friends. I see people doing it on facebook but those in the worse circumstances don't have facebook or phones or cell phones remaining.

I don't have any answers, and only one request and that is please don't forget them. When they're going to need us all is 2 weeks from today and 3 months and 6 months. We couldn't even get to the worst hit locations and didn't meet the people hurt the most. I sure felt so helpless and like I was doing so little. As a boater, I care about the marinas and the ICW but that's not where the most serious damage of Florence is.

I just had to say this. Not looking for responses, as I'm not sure there is one. I know many here are familiar with these areas, but just sharing for those not so.
As a former New Bernian and employee of Hatteras Yachts for 23+ years, your words were an insight to the reality of the situation.

I am heartbroken at the devastation that my family, friends and former coworkers are facing. And the economic uncertainty that many face as businesses struggle to overcome the hurdles that are ahead of them. This will take months / years to recover. And many businesses and farms won’t be able to.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:51 AM   #110
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As a boat owner in New Bern; allow me to state why I do not move.

It is simply not an option!

From taking care and prepping my house (which is the priority)
From taking care of my elderly mother (which is a higher priority)
From caring for my boat and her welfare, BUT knowing I could never move her fast enough or far enough (and then into unfamiliar waters) to satisfy the needs of safety.
From being unsure if putting her on the hard is safer than the water (this time it seems it would not have been safer necessarily)
From doing my best to prepare the vessel and trying to make sure those vessels around me are secure.
From needing to remain at the house (or evacuate) and not worry about the vessel until the storm is over and the house and my mother are secure.

I do the best I can; and do not want to lose my boat; but life, others, home come first.

There is no right or correct answer. We each do our best. Those who lost their boats at New Bern Grand Marina and Bridgepoint Harbor did their best.
Sometimes it is the luck of the draw,

There is no blanket answer. Each storm, each place, each circumstance of life is different. I do not judge you in how you respond.

My thoughts a week later and tired from a week of yard clean up and putting the boat back together.

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Old 09-22-2018, 08:59 AM   #111
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During the past 50 years or so how many marina or boat related devastating hurricanes or tropical storms has the New Bern area encountered?
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:39 AM   #112
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BandB said,



"Will the few businesses employing them rebuild? I don't know."



As a small business owner I can tell you that not enough will and some will be replaced by "carpetbaggers." Why? Because the rules that the government applies to recovery are not realistic.



If you have a bad credit rating they will loan you money at under 2%. If you were a successful small business owner they will loan you money at 6%. Who do you think will eventually pay back the loan??? Who do you think will say, "I am outa here."


If you are a homeowner that needs repairs you will get help. But, if you are renting, the lower level of income, your landlord will get no help. You are pushed out by the city that will condemn your house and provide no help to the landlord to fix it for you.


With no home and the small business that employed you leaving town, you have no choice to move on and become another citys problem. The definition of Urban Renewal, "get rid of the poor."


SBA and FEMA need to consider that small businesses and landlords perform a service to the disadvantaged population and quit discriminating against them because they are "Fat Cats". They are working people also and are feeding their own familys from their rentals and businesses. And though better off, they still need help after a disaster.
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:22 AM   #113
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As a former New Bernian and employee of Hatteras Yachts for 23+ years, your words were an insight to the reality of the situation.

I am heartbroken at the devastation that my family, friends and former coworkers are facing. And the economic uncertainty that many face as businesses struggle to overcome the hurdles that are ahead of them. This will take months / years to recover. And many businesses and farms won’t be able to.
Wifey B: Add coal ash in the Cape Fear, toss in Hwy 421 to Wilmington now broken, add in the loss of hog and chicken farms and the run off from the dead animals into the streams. More people in SC evacuated yesterday.

I also expect an increase in some diseases that won't be apparent for years as so much won't be replaced, but simply people will make do the best they can in homes that have been filled with water. This is a real concern in Houston, post Harvey. Obviously a huge issue in Puerto Rico. It was a hidden cost of Katrina, not so much in New Orleans where buildings were destroyed as in other areas that had milder flooding. For just one condition, look at Histoplasmosis.

Then toss in more human impact. Children who panic every time there's a storm of any type. Adult relationships that fall apart. Those whose anger overtakes them. Deep depression of those who lost everything.

The hurricane ends and for those who don't live in the area it's all over, they don't look back. However, for those who do live there, the damage remains with them. And this isn't just true of hurricanes. Look at the fires and tornadoes.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:07 PM   #114
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Larry...any good news on Swanee?
Looks bad for poor old Swanee. Owner says a surveyor just called and said the boat is still in the area where the slip was located, but upside down. Too bad. They did a lot of work on it. She sank with my old mast & boom attached. I hope we can at least see it salvaged or parted out somewhere. No one seems to know what happened to the one that sunk in Irma.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:21 PM   #115
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Seems to me that if someone lives in an area that is prone to hurricanes, tornadoes, or live in an area where flooding is possible, responsible people have insurance. Not having insurance for events that are clearly possible is not a good idea. I also get a little annoyed when those that have chosen to NOT insure themselves expect the public to bail them out.

The same is true in my region where we face real risks of wildfire, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and tsunamis.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:29 PM   #116
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But is insurance good enough?

Are we expected to do more than just let insurance make up for our inattention?

In a wild fire area, do people cut brush back from the house?

Do we build homes to meet certain risk criteria?

Do we just shrug and let insurance take care of our boats if options to mitigate storm damage are available?

Sure, insurance is necessary over government assistance where ever possible...and personal involvement to keep insurance costs down isn't a bad thing either.
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Old 09-22-2018, 01:13 PM   #117
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Wifey B: Let's keep perspective that some of the homes had never flooded and some were in areas that hadn't flooded until 2015 or 2016. So some had lived in areas all their lives and never needed it.

Also, what about people who cannot afford flood insurance? They may rent or live in mobile homes. Those most flooded were inland 50 miles and more. A lot like Houston and Harvey.

I believe all homeowners (and business) insurance should have both windstorm and flood coverage. I think it's crazy people aren't insured for those. We're guessing as to who needs and how badly instead of including it.

Still I just can't turn my back on those hurt badly. We can all live without a boat, but we need shelter and clothing and necessities of life. Also, don't think for one moment that FEMA or any other assistance makes those who suffered losses whole. It simply helps them survive.
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Old 09-22-2018, 01:41 PM   #118
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But is insurance good enough?

Are we expected to do more than just let insurance make up for our inattention?

In a wild fire area, do people cut brush back from the house?

Do we build homes to meet certain risk criteria?

Do we just shrug and let insurance take care of our boats if options to mitigate storm damage are available?

Sure, insurance is necessary over government assistance where ever possible...and personal involvement to keep insurance costs down isn't a bad thing either.
No, Insurance alone isn't enough, but it's still critical.

I don't think anyone just shrugs and says let insurance take care of things.

As to building homes to meet certain risk criteria, I absolutely believe we should. All coastal homes should be built to hurricane standards such as Miami/Dade standards. Homes in flood zones should be elevated above some reasonable flood level. Still one has a debate as to what reasonable is. These floods have exceeded the 100 year flood data.

We need regulations on marina construction. It's not accidental that one marina handles a storm better than the one across from it. Then we need responsible marina operators in addition to boaters. I can't blame a marina if a boat sinks in it's slip, but I do blame when a boat floats into a home located two miles away. Just reducing the percentage of damaged boats would be significant.

As we talk prevention, we need to remember that many of these waters and dams were already noted as being at risk. Dams are breaching that were listed by the states. So, we need to take action. Houston's risk had been identified. Duke Energy's Coal Ash risk was identified. The Catawba River in Western NC has multiple dams and lakes that were built primarily for flood control. Many of the rivers involved in this flooding need dams for flood control. Some haven't crested yet. Conway SC still expecting 3 more feet of rise and, incidentally, it's officially not in a flood plain.

We must recognize that NC and SC have major flood risks that need to be addressed.

I'd say the same thing in fire areas as we will continue to have wildfires if we don't take any steps to lessen the risk.

We need it all, personal effort, governmental effort and regulation, and insurance. The problem is increasing and our inaction is deadly, figuratively and literally.

There isn't a single answer. I don't blame a homeowner or boat owner without knowing fully their circumstances. This is a very complex subject. We didn't seem to learn anything after Matthew except how to rebuild. Will we learn from Florence and actually take action?
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Old 09-22-2018, 02:11 PM   #119
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Wifey B: Let's keep perspective that some of the homes had never flooded and some were in areas that hadn't flooded until 2015 or 2016. So some had lived in areas all their lives and never needed it.



Also, what about people who cannot afford flood insurance? They may rent or live in mobile homes. Those most flooded were inland 50 miles and more. A lot like Houston and Harvey.



I believe all homeowners (and business) insurance should have both windstorm and flood coverage. I think it's crazy people aren't insured for those. We're guessing as to who needs and how badly instead of including it.



Still I just can't turn my back on those hurt badly. We can all live without a boat, but we need shelter and clothing and necessities of life. Also, don't think for one moment that FEMA or any other assistance makes those who suffered losses whole. It simply helps them survive.

I don’t disagree with anything you say. I also recognize that I have the luxury of choice because I am financially fortunate. Still, if someone can’t afford flood insurance, then maybe they shouldn’t live in a flood prone area? If someone can’t afford to clean up the spill caused by a sunk boat, and can’t afford the insurance for that, maybe they shouldn’t have a boat? Now, those are two entirely different things. I do understand that there are folks with limited incomes and limited opportunity. It may be that the only place they can afford to live where they can get work is in a rented trailer that is sitting in a flood zone. They may not be able to afford insurance. Again, poverty limits choices and not all poverty is a result of poor choices.

We have seen some major weather events that have forced flood maps to be redrawn. Some of the recent events (Katrina, Harvey, Sandy, etc... ) created unusual situations that the average business or homeowner may not have had any reason to anticipate. However, I’m convinced that city and county planners should have anticipated them and simply failed in their duty.

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But is insurance good enough?

Are we expected to do more than just let insurance make up for our inattention?

In a wild fire area, do people cut brush back from the house?

Do we build homes to meet certain risk criteria?

Do we just shrug and let insurance take care of our boats if options to mitigate storm damage are available?

Sure, insurance is necessary over government assistance where ever possible...and personal involvement to keep insurance costs down isn't a bad thing either.

I agree. Insurance itself isn’t an excuse to not take responsibility.
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Old 09-22-2018, 04:19 PM   #120
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I don’t disagree with anything you say. I also recognize that I have the luxury of choice because I am financially fortunate. Still, if someone can’t afford flood insurance, then maybe they shouldn’t live in a flood prone area? If someone can’t afford to clean up the spill caused by a sunk boat, and can’t afford the insurance for that, maybe they shouldn’t have a boat? Now, those are two entirely different things. I do understand that there are folks with limited incomes and limited opportunity. It may be that the only place they can afford to live where they can get work is in a rented trailer that is sitting in a flood zone. They may not be able to afford insurance. Again, poverty limits choices and not all poverty is a result of poor choices.

We have seen some major weather events that have forced flood maps to be redrawn. Some of the recent events (Katrina, Harvey, Sandy, etc... ) created unusual situations that the average business or homeowner may not have had any reason to anticipate. However, I’m convinced that city and county planners should have anticipated them and simply failed in their duty.
If you choose to let people own a boat (which isn't a necessity), and they choose to not insure it, if it sinks, and they can't or won't pay for the removal and environmental cleanup, should they be held legally responsible?

I believe in all states, if you own a car (which most would classify as a necessity) it is a crime for which you can be held financially and criminally liable to have licensed to use without insurance.

Why should boats be any different?

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