Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-28-2018, 07:42 AM   #121
Guru
 
boomerang's Avatar
 
City: Kilmarnock VA
Country: united states
Vessel Name: YellowBird
Vessel Model: 1978 Mainship 34
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 715
I have always assumed the check valve incorporated into the latest models of bilge pumps is to stop the pumps from cycling where there is a long run to the loop/discharge port and not for protection of a through hull port installed at/below the water level. When I see through hulls mounted close to the water line, I have to wonder if they are there by design or for aesthetics.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
-Shawn-
boomerang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 08:48 AM   #122
Veteran Member
 
SpaceCadet's Avatar
 
City: New Bedford, MA
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Currently Boatless
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 26
Certainly any owner's worst nightmare. At this point in life I know enough to know that I don't know enough to give advice. But that rarely stops me.

Cutwater should settle this and settle it fast. I work in an industry where, unfortunately, law suits are de rigueur. You would be amazed at how fast legal fees can add up to $400k. Especially if you are accused of doing something negligent or outright fraudulent (whether you are guilty or not doesn't matter) and federal agencies with acronyms get involved and impose damages. Even if the company's insurance policy doesn't cover it for some reason, it's short money. Cutwater actually could use this to it's benefit if they are smart. Brands are judged by how they take care of customers when things go bad. (Tylenol vs. Volkswagen) It can take a generation or more to repair a PR disaster like this.

Just my $.04
__________________

SpaceCadet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 10:22 AM   #123
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 19,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceCadet View Post
Certainly any owner's worst nightmare. At this point in life I know enough to know that I don't know enough to give advice. But that rarely stops me.

Cutwater should settle this and settle it fast. I work in an industry where, unfortunately, law suits are de rigueur. You would be amazed at how fast legal fees can add up to $400k. Especially if you are accused of doing something negligent or outright fraudulent (whether you are guilty or not doesn't matter) and federal agencies with acronyms get involved and impose damages. Even if the company's insurance policy doesn't cover it for some reason, it's short money. Cutwater actually could use this to it's benefit if they are smart. Brands are judged by how they take care of customers when things go bad. (Tylenol vs. Volkswagen) It can take a generation or more to repair a PR disaster like this.

Just my $.04
There's one factor, however, that can't be overlooked. Cutwater/Fluid Motion, my not be fluid or liquid enough to be capable of settling something such as this quickly, even if they wanted.

I don't know their financial situation but I know many small builders who have spent the money fully the moment they receive it. Without the up front and progress payments, they're not even capable of building the boats.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 10:47 AM   #124
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
There's one factor, however, that can't be overlooked. Cutwater/Fluid Motion, my not be fluid or liquid enough to be capable of settling something such as this quickly, even if they wanted.

I don't know their financial situation but I know many small builders who have spent the money fully the moment they receive it. Without the up front and progress payments, they're not even capable of building the boats.
BB
One stop at a Ranger Tug rendezvous will tell you they are a very large builder, amongst the biggest in the US. They have a loyal following of hundreds of very smart owners cruising the daylights out of their vessels.

Space Cadet is correct, if indeed they built a problematic outboard vessel they should fix it. But, it remains to be seen if the owner was sloppy and inattentive or the vessel would have floundered in the best of hands.

There is a bottom line here, the best of boats have sunk while the worst of boats somehow remain afloat. Boats owned by billionaires or those on SS, makes no difference. Experienced boaters have numerous sinking stories, the reasons are endless. Mega yachts with professional crew sink due to the simplest of reasons. Single handers on comparatively low cost vessels cruise long distances and remain afloat, some are TF members.

I can provide no answers or even ask intelligent questions on this tragedy. Too bad the TugNuts site is so sparse with this sinking and members questions on same squelched. I'm watching.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 11:58 AM   #125
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 19,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
BB
One stop at a Ranger Tug rendezvous will tell you they are a very large builder, amongst the biggest in the US. They have a loyal following of hundreds of very smart owners cruising the daylights out of their vessels.

.
Actually all that tells me is that they have built lots of boats over the years. Tells me very little about their current state of affairs or financial position. I'd also say that size doesn't necessarily indicate cash available either. They're not among the largest builders in the US at all. Wouldn't be in the top 20, perhaps not top 40. Perhaps big for their type boat.

I'm just saying there are many boat builders that would not have $400k available cash for a payment. None of that disparaging Ranger Tugs at all. Just sometimes easier said than done.

Sears couldn't pay it...lol. Perhaps had they not spent all the money buying back stock.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 01:11 PM   #126
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al View Post
Greetings, I have read the full forum subject on this as well the full blog of the owner.
In review. There is much mention regarding the bilge pump in question located in the engine pod to which I would like to contribute. I will by the use of my personal incident with a Rule pump, (same manufacture).
In my case, on odd times there would be a substantial amount of water in the bilge without any apparent source. I would taste the bilge to confirm it being salt water after thinking that the source was a leaking hot water tank, not the case.
The bilge would be pumped and watched with no incoming water found. There would be days between with no issue. Then a voyage would be made and during that time checking the bilge, water would again be found. Of course, a complete search of the bilge an all, I repeat, all connections to the three Rule bilge pumps would be accomplished. with all connections tight.
After being at anchor one night, with guest aboard, checking for engine start up, I noticed a larger amount of water than even that found in earlier finds. This made the issue too serious to not find the answer.
BINGO!!! It came to me, the overboard outlet for the bilge pump was AT WATER LINE level. hence, with the extra folks onboard, the weight allowed the bilge pump discharge to be under water here is the find (THE RULE BILGE PUMP DOES NOT HAVE A CHECK VALVE BUILT INTO IT.) I found later that only recently had Rule redesigned pumps to include some sort of check ball, not in any of the existing pumps on board my boat.
I reinstalled the discharge hose with new that formed a hoop loop above the discharge and the issue was cured.
Having said this, if you review the photos of the engine pod and the bilge pump discharge, you will note that it comes in at or below the water line and is a direct drop to the pump.

What I am saying is with the water being forced up and about with the stern facing the waves, the water was coming in via the bilge pump and not the stern gaskets resulting in filling the pod. At some point as the boat was becoming laden, the inflow was increasing allowing faster flow backwards through the discharge hose to the and through the bilge pump itself. (No Check valve)

Al-Ketchikan.

Interesting. You could be right. However, there shouldn't be a check valve in a bilge pump discharge line. They can fail and cause problems. What you did, make a loop so the line went well above the waterline is the proper solution (with an anti-siphon valve in it).
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 05:55 PM   #127
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 11,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
...I'm just saying there are many boat builders that would not have $400k available cash for a payment. None of that disparaging Ranger Tugs at all. Just sometimes easier said than done....
Surely it`s common for product manufacturers to have Product Liability Insurance to cover exposure potential like this.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 06:52 PM   #128
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 19,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Surely it`s common for product manufacturers to have Product Liability Insurance to cover exposure potential like this.
I would think so and I'd think they'd go that route rather than pay themselves. However, that means taking the time to convince the insurer it's a covered event. Whereas the builder might like a quick accommodation, the insurer doesn't hold the same incentive of goodwill.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 07:03 PM   #129
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 6,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
I would think so and I'd think they'd go that route rather than pay themselves. However, that means taking the time to convince the insurer it's a covered event. Whereas the builder might like a quick accommodation, the insurer doesn't hold the same incentive of goodwill.
Perhaps the company attorney advised them not to admit to anything.

Of course, if the company picked up the boat, everything has changed. The boat owner no longer can protect the evidence.
__________________
The meek will inherit the earth but, the brave will inherit the seas.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 08:34 PM   #130
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Port Credit
Country: Ontario
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Since there is no federal process whereby boats are "recalled" like autos, or at least none that I am aware of
USCG Safety & Recall Notices
__________________
If you can live with the consequences, go for it - wg
Y'am what y'am an' thats' all that y'am - Popeye
I had an allergic reality - Jillie the Bean
boatpoker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 08:42 PM   #131
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 6,115
"Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Since there is no federal process whereby boats are "recalled" like autos, or at least none that I am aware of

USCG Safety & Recall Notices"

First off, I guess, there must be a number of complaints, on the same subject, before the USCG gets involved.
To whom do they report the defects without fear of a lawsuit.
__________________
The meek will inherit the earth but, the brave will inherit the seas.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 08:47 PM   #132
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,509
Greetings,
Where's good ole AYBC in all of this?
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 08:50 PM   #133
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 6,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Where's good ole AYBC in all of this?
What can the AYBC do?

We are discussing theory here. We do not know the complete facts nor have we heard the builder's response.
__________________
The meek will inherit the earth but, the brave will inherit the seas.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 09:02 PM   #134
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,509
Greetings,

Mr. OD. Agreed. We know very few of the facts nor the builder's response. My comment was initially tongue in cheek but upon reading your response it got me to thinkin'.

Since AYBC "suggestions" are, supposedly, an industry agreed upon set of build guidelines, surely at some point questions will arise as to the proper application of said guidelines in the build of the Cutwater vessel.
NOT making any judgements at this point.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 09:51 PM   #135
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Yes, thank you. BB already pointed that out. Much obliged.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 10:02 PM   #136
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 6,115
Due to the previous discussion of 'some owner's' shutting off all the batteries upon leaving the boat for a period of time, I wonder if he shut the batteries off.

IMO, it is ridiculous for the builder to suggest, he shouldn't have docked the boat stern to face the waves.

The picture, as pointed out, an absence of dock lines too.

Things are are, shall we say, a bit clouded.
__________________
The meek will inherit the earth but, the brave will inherit the seas.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 10:07 PM   #137
Veteran Member
 
Tolly Roger's Avatar
 
City: Tsawwassen/Point Roberts
Country: Canada/USA
Vessel Name: Tolly Roger
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34 SC
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 94
So.... I've been trying to figure this out.
Let's just say that the boat capsized and that ALL internal systems and parts are toast. Engines? maybe??
It's a write-off. Scrap!
Would the hull, deck, cabin and any other fiberglass parts be salvageable?
What's the value of that?
Could you "de-construct" it and start all over.
If a new one is $400K what would the cost be to rebuild it?
Guesses?
Worth it?
__________________
Tolly Roger
1983 Tollycraft 34SC
www.tollyroger.com
Tolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 11:04 PM   #138
Guru
 
refugio's Avatar
 
City: Meydenbauer Bay Yacht Club
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Lulu (Refugio sold)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Where's good ole AYBC in all of this?
<cough> ABYC
__________________
Keith
refugio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 11:16 PM   #139
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,509
Greetings,
Thanks Mr. r.

Mr. TR. I suspect someone will have to pay to dispose of it. My guess is it would cost more to fix than scrap if you figure in labor $$.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 11:59 PM   #140
Guru
 
South of Heaven's Avatar
 
City: Sharon, Ma
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Lane
Vessel Model: 2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,078
Could this get the vote for 2018/19 TF winter thread of the year?? This may get us through the winter....Better than Netflix. There's still SO much to be revealed (but let's not hold our breath on Fluid Motion, LLC releasing any statements!). I also find it very interesting that the "Tug Nutters" are staying quite mum on the whole situation. I don't blame them though.....they love the company and are loyalists.
__________________

__________________
Jason

2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht
South of Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×