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Old 11-26-2018, 05:02 PM   #81
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It would be even more convincing if the surveyors had actually tested the bilge pumps and found a flaw or misrepresentation....
I'm just wondering if the rear one worked at all and how long it took to run the battery down. How long it would take to sink/capsize with water coming in..

I'd think Cutwaters defense would be "Well there are X number of these boats that didn't sink"....
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Old 11-26-2018, 06:08 PM   #82
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It would be even more convincing if the surveyors had actually tested the bilge pumps and found a flaw or misrepresentation....
I'm just wondering if the rear one worked at all and how long it took to run the battery down. How long it would take to sink/capsize with water coming in..

I'd think Cutwaters defense would be "Well there are X number of these boats that didn't sink"....
Knew someone who purchased a brand new home, directly from the builder. He moves in and the air conditioning isn't working. The AC guy comes out and quickly explains he hadn't hooked it up as he was waiting for the plumber to finish under the house first. Turns out the plumber hadn't finished and drains were not connected to the sewage system, all waste just running underneath. Fortunately, only 3 or 4 flushes of a toilet at that point and a little sink water.

I think if one was able to talk to all purchasers and get the whole truth, the evidence would be quite strong at this point. Their recall indicates an issue of some type. Problem is no one will volunteer information as all the other owners want their boats fixed properly at no cost to them, so they're not about to start disparaging the builder.
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Old 11-26-2018, 06:47 PM   #83
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"I think if one was able to talk to all purchasers and get the whole truth, the evidence would be quite strong at this point. Their recall indicates an issue of some type. Problem is no one will volunteer information as all the other owners want their boats fixed properly at no cost to them, so they're not about to start disparaging the builder.[/QUOTE]

Respectfully disagree.
There is no evidence at this point. Only what the blogger says. An independent survey might be considered evidence. Misinformation or misleading information in the owners manual might be considered evidence. Is there an official recall ? Proof ??

And with the Internet most anybody can say most anything and have no fear of repercussions. Who wants to admit they bought a lemon.....

Reading the blog was there ever any doubt this would end badly ?
True spending $400,000 on a new boat "should" get you a good seaworthy boat. But who knows. None of us have a perfect boat for all conditions. Doesn't exist. Did the owner check on it diligently ? I believe the boat could take on water but over what time frame ?? Poor design, sure probably. It certainly could have been better.

I'm not knocking anybody, just it's hard to make any sound judgments based on an Internet post. Let alone legal ones...
Now if it was my boat I'd post the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth !!
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:47 PM   #84
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You always insure the vehicle/vessel. Always. That way your fault, their fault, nobody's fault, you get some coverage.
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:32 PM   #85
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WOW my 2 cents worth.

First of all wow what a situation.
I went to USMMA Kings Point Merchant Marine academy and Maine maritime academy and Im a captain and a marine surveyor but most importantly I had the transom of a boat I was running for a friend fail 54 miles offshore and had a vessel that was lost.

The first thing that sets off a red flag is the fact that the vessel has no insurance. everywhere I go I have to provide insurance info. Infact when I purchased a boat from the dealer I was required to show proof of insurance and yes I paid cash no financing intact it is a state law to have liability insurance. I dont care if its a car boat trailer I make sure be fore its in my name its insured. I am not going to comment on the quality of the build of the boat as I don't have a lot of experience with this manufacturer.

I would like to see the other side of the story and not some copy and pasted emails from one side of the story. I would like to see what was sent aka screenshots showing the un edited emails sent by both parties. He says that he wasn't responded too but later on says he received emails back and forth about the grill. Reading his emails to the dealer ect. I can understand why they weren't given more attention he was very demanding and pushy. If this was the true email and he and been a little nicer he would likely would have got a response.
I also find it hard to believe they never responded and went fishing. He probably got wind u and rude and they didn't want to deal with him. There is more to the emails than he's telling us. worry more about the important issues not the BBQ grill

once again we are only seeing one side of the story but any boat car or other item that is produced by humans has an opportunity for mistakes especially if the build is being rushed for an owner. some of the little things on the sea trial that went wrong are simple issues that would have been caught if dealer had longer to test all systems. are for window leaks and gaskets I have fought that on every boat and rv I have ever owned. considering how complex new systems are getting there wasn't that many problems.

As for them admitting there was a problem no they got the vessel back before it made the long trip 180 hours worth to alaska saving them money. It appears they dealer tried to fix any issue that was pointed out.

the trailer is a whole other story I know for a fact there is no way possible the dealer could pass that off as a new trailer I am going to leave it at that since we don't know the other side of the story.

to take off on an 1000mile 180hour plus trip on a brand new boat with no real shakedown and use of any type to get comfortable with whats what is crazy.

in your 22 day trip thats if you ran 8 hours a day everyday witch we all know is impossible due to weather. there were no water intrusion issues and you yourself said you were in some pretty rough stuff.

Im not gonna rehash all the comments on the pumps but i believe if there had been a problem i think they would have known sooner and agree if they had been wired correctly they should have been running. the boat was supposed to be equipped with a solar charing system as by the looks of thing is didn't see a shore power cable in the picture.

the Vessel when found capsized away from the dock I feel like something or someone had something to do with this. I have seen plenty of boats sink tied to the dock and it would have stayed tied to the dock. I have my doubts about some of the supposed extensive corrosion being that is was fresh water and if drained out and stayed down with penetration old the electrical would have been ok. I saw a guy take a 100ft motoryacht that was sunk in saltwater clean up connections and pickle engines and its fine today.

Lots of Canadians come to the us to buy things in cash as it is much cheaper. I wouldn't thing that a Canadian dealer would be allowed at an us show if there was a us dealer there.

I agree that outboard bracket was not well designed but i have my doubts as to the actually reason it sank I had those flaps on my through hulls had to take one off because it worked too good.

this was not a good situation for either party but I keep coming back to the owner and not the mfj.
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Old 11-27-2018, 07:11 AM   #86
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True spending $400,000 on a new boat "should" get you a good seaworthy boat. But who knows.

Folks that purchase a boat , esp a new boat, without having it surveyed before payment and delivery are "pound foolish".

Any brand , any builder.
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Old 11-27-2018, 07:23 AM   #87
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I too am curious how the boat became detached from the pier. Seen a lot of boats sunk at the dock and they remain tied. Unless using clothesline.
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Old 11-27-2018, 09:05 AM   #88
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I am only seeing one side of this story... I think there is a lot more to the story then we are hearing.
This ^^^^^^^


A lot seems to be missing here. I would not condemn Cutwater based on just this. If this is a part of a much larger pattern, then I haven't heard about it.
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Old 11-27-2018, 10:52 AM   #89
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This ^^^^^^^


A lot seems to be missing here. I would not condemn Cutwater based on just this. If this is a part of a much larger pattern, then I haven't heard about it.
Comments I made about Cutwater and a problem were not based on this report but on the others that show there is some pattern of this model needing to come back for some work. That may all just be them being exceptionally cautious or may indicate a serious issue. Regardless, I treat it much like I would an auto recall for the moment. My vehicle gets recalled, there's a problem. Until knowing more, I can't say whether it's a minor issue or a life and death issue.
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:12 AM   #90
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Comments I made about Cutwater and a problem were not based on this report but on the others that show there is some pattern of this model needing to come back for some work. That may all just be them being exceptionally cautious or may indicate a serious issue. Regardless, I treat it much like I would an auto recall for the moment. My vehicle gets recalled, there's a problem. Until knowing more, I can't say whether it's a minor issue or a life and death issue.
Since there is no federal process whereby boats are "recalled" like autos, or at least none that I am aware of, my guess is that you will see a quiet fix applied to all Cutwaters of this model. And again, we can all agree that the buyer was a doofus and the dealer a lousy one, but if any mariner even mildly knowledgeable about boating looked at the arrangement Cutwater developed to increase floatation so they could produce an outboard model, they would have rejected it as inherently unseaworthy. Would you bet your boat on a $25 bilge pump that absolutely had to work in normally encountered conditions at a dock to keep the vessel afloat?
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:27 AM   #91
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Okay, the question may have been asked before but I will ask it again.
Did he shut the batteries down when he left the boat?
I never shut my batteries down..... Others may disagree with me but, my boat, my batteries, I shall do as I wish. Your boat, you do as you wish.
At the dock, I am attached to shore power, have a 40amp battery charger and I have about 250 watts of solar panels to keep the house batteries charged.
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:40 AM   #92
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Okay, the question may have been asked before but I will ask it again.
Did he shut the batteries down when he left the boat?
I never shut my batteries down..... Others may disagree with me but, my boat, my batteries, I shall do as I wish. Your boat, you do as you wish.
At the dock, I am attached to shore power, have a 40amp battery charger and I have about 250 watts of solar panels to keep the house batteries charged.
Surveyor's report didn't says so and recommended testing, but based on the operator's manual, you don't need to keep a batter switch on since they were supposed to be directly wired to a power source. That guidance is contradicted by the wiring diagram, which shows the bilge pumps to be powered from a sub panel and thruster battery. Most owners aren't going to be electricians so would be expected to rely on the written word describing intended function. The surveyor expressed the opinion that the flapper valve that is supposed to prevent the inevitable water from sloshing into the sponson was inadequate. However you cut it, this Cutwater was very poorly thought out with the result that whatever the failings of the owner or dealer, the vessel capsized.
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Old 11-27-2018, 12:10 PM   #93
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Interesting thread.



My take away is two-fold. The first is that the buyer was likely inexperienced and uninformed. That is unfortunate as it cost him dearly. I make purchase decisions all the time that are uninformed and full of assumptions that aren't necessarily true. Granted, not $400,000 purchases but...


Secondly, it certainly appears that there was a design problem with the addition of the outboards. As near as I can tell, if the penetrations had been water tight, there wouldn't be a problem. If the bilge pumps were wired directly, that would have mitigated the problem (until the battery died), but isn't a solution to a likely design issue.


This is a bad situation all around, one that will hurt both the buyer and the builder.
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Old 11-27-2018, 12:12 PM   #94
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I am very confused about how he bought a boat at the Seattle Boat show from a Canadian dealer. Only the Seattle dealer is allowed to display at the Seattle boat show.
Now, I'll preface this by saying, "I'm not saying your wrong", however that is unusual. The Show organizer is in the business of selling booths to vendors and selling tickets to attendees. The show organizer could care less about a vendors distribution rights.

In every other boat show I've ever attended, when there is more than one dealer present for a specific brand, they usually collaborate by sharing booth space. It is mutually beneficial. There is no point in both vendors hauling and displaying the same boats in two different booths.

When you enter that booth, they ask you your location. They usually designate you with a sticker, color-coded to the regional dealer. Everyone pitches in, but you're sent to your specific regional dealer when you start discussing pricing.
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Old 11-27-2018, 01:15 PM   #95
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Since there is no federal process whereby boats are "recalled" like autos, or at least none that I am aware of, my guess is that you will see a quiet fix applied to all Cutwaters of this model.
USCG Recall program. Recalls

However, larger production boats generally and most builders like them would take steps without CG involvement.

Sort of like lemon laws where dealers would buy back before being forced to so they could then resell it as used without it being labeled a lemon buyback.
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:24 PM   #96
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Not having insurance, did not sink the boat. I am speculating, that there was zero lien on the boat, and speculate that he has the wherewithal to self insure. As far as him being a jerk as one poster said, I know not. He did manage to take the boat from Port Alberni to Skagway, with no mentioned calamities. A feather in his cap for that. Why the boat did not just settle in the water supported by mooring line, I donít know that either. He posted that after getting boat righted he moved it to his hangar. Does that mean the fellow flies? And in the Yukon. Might be smarter than a lot of posters are giving him credit for, just speculation though. Seem that both surveys, pointed out shortcomings in the design of drainage and routing of control lines thru the pod, I have no comment, as it would be speculation on my part. I would speculate that owner will pursue compensation thru the courts, and it will be interesting to see where it leads.
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:37 PM   #97
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Note: Fluid has in fact had several recalls or cases but none serious. Most are boats at boat shows lacking labels or certifications or hull ID number. One is for sidelights, one for navigation lights.
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:00 PM   #98
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There is no requirement for insurance for boats in Canada. Iíve never been asked for any in a marina or harbour.

Not sure why everyone keeps keying in on that fact.

At least we know it isnít insurance fraud.
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:32 PM   #99
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There is no requirement for insurance for boats in Canada. Iíve never been asked for any in a marina or harbour.

Not sure why everyone keeps keying in on that fact.

At least we know it isnít insurance fraud.
Because most of us believe buying a $400k boat and not having insurance on it is unwise and had he had insurance, he'd be far more protected against this loss. There is something about screaming and yelling about a terrible loss when you chose not to be insured that is bothersome.

Also, had there been a fuel leakage, then the cost of the sinking would have dramatically increased.
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:48 PM   #100
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Because most of us believe buying a $400k boat and not having insurance on it is unwise and had he had insurance, he'd be far more protected against this loss. There is something about screaming and yelling about a terrible loss when you chose not to be insured that is bothersome.

Also, had there been a fuel leakage, then the cost of the sinking would have dramatically increased.

And just exactly what does that have to do with the boat sinking due to a design flaw? Absolutely nothing, why conflate two separate issues. Wrong is wrong is and if it is a design issue (which it appears to be) then it doesn't matter who incurs the loss be it the owner or his insurer.
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