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Old 12-07-2018, 11:21 AM   #381
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Great perspective, thank you.
+1. Which is why on our latest P purchase we went for the 7 year warranty.
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Old 12-07-2018, 11:38 AM   #382
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+1. Which is why on our latest P purchase we went for the 7 year warranty.
Extended warranty's are insurance. If you don't drop dead, I doubt your wife thinks the money was wasted. Modern cars are dependent of their computer systems and electronics, and they are very expensive. I doubt I'll need the policies I have on our cars for mechanical reasons, but electronic may be a different story.
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Old 12-07-2018, 11:49 AM   #383
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A corollary to this (since we are way OT) is that collectors of the future will have little to collect. A Model A Ford is made from steel and a very little bit of stranded wire. You can make replacement parts for nearly everything in it, but being steel you mostly don't need to. A friend of mine runs a shop that repairs antique race cars. They needed an engine for a 1916 Pugeot, so they made one. Today's cars are injection molded plastic and integrated circuit electronics and firmware. It is very difficult, - practically impossible - to replace parts, once the repair stock is gone. They are truly disposable. Perhaps manufacturing technology will catch this up (3D printing for example) but probably not completely.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:31 PM   #384
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Extended warranty's are insurance. If you don't drop dead, I doubt your wife thinks the money was wasted. Modern cars are dependent of their computer systems and electronics, and they are very expensive. I doubt I'll need the policies I have on our cars for mechanical reasons, but electronic may be a different story.
One thing that is becoming apparent is that what were once simple fender benders are now significant financial events. The number of sensors, radars, cameras, etc. in the fenders and bumper covers of even economy cars is astounding. A fender that once cost $800 now is filled with as much as $10,000 of electronics that are easily damaged in even minor bumps. Putting all of these sensors on the periphery of the vehicle may be necessary but it also puts them at greater risk.

We are not far from the day a nearly new compact car needing a couple of fenders and a bumper cover will be a total loss.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:58 PM   #385
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BandB, I will forever kick myself for not foreseeing the future. In 1969, while at the University of Washington, I took a COBOL programming course. The computer was in a temperature controlled, glassed in room the size of a house. You passed your punch cards (Google it) through a slot and were told when to come back and get your printout. I saw no future in computers. Too big and time consuming (the punch card part, not the actual computing time). With any vision I could have been Bill Gates and owned that 959 instead of just working on it.
To get back to the original subject, I'm getting my boat back and will be at my marina tomorrow. If anyone is interested I can take a few pictures of the sponson on the Cutwater that had the battery meltdown, see post #16. I do not recall seeing any round access plates in the top, but I will look again.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:04 PM   #386
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One thing that is becoming apparent is that what were once simple fender benders are now significant financial events. The number of sensors, radars, cameras, etc. in the fenders and bumper covers of even economy cars is astounding. A fender that once cost $800 now is filled with as much as $10,000 of electronics that are easily damaged in even minor bumps. Putting all of these sensors on the periphery of the vehicle may be necessary but it also puts them at greater risk.

We are not far from the day a nearly new compact car needing a couple of fenders and a bumper cover will be a total loss.
The electronics are the cheap part. The software to utilize them is what costs the money.

As GM says "You may be buying the car, but you are only licensing the software that actually makes it run."
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:42 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
One thing that is becoming apparent is that what were once simple fender benders are now significant financial events. The number of sensors, radars, cameras, etc. in the fenders and bumper covers of even economy cars is astounding. A fender that once cost $800 now is filled with as much as $10,000 of electronics that are easily damaged in even minor bumps. Putting all of these sensors on the periphery of the vehicle may be necessary but it also puts them at greater risk.

We are not far from the day a nearly new compact car needing a couple of fenders and a bumper cover will be a total loss.
An argument for a good old used car. Heck, I've never spent more than $8k on a car but only had a few. Get a good one, take can of it and when it gets old, junk it and get another. Very cheap and reliable transportation, and my car is just as comfy and does the same thing that a new one does. Cars are only consumables. I'm not in love with a car. Now, the boat or plane are different. One can get emotional about the well being and feelings of their boat.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:46 PM   #388
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Here's an example of the equipment needed to calibrate lane change assist after a sensor has been replaced.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:02 PM   #389
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Here's an example of the equipment needed to calibrate lane change assist after a sensor has been replaced.
If I had this in my car and the sensor failed, I'd probably just turn the system off and carry on (especially if the warranty is over). So far I've driven for 40 some years without lane change assist. I can probably manage without it.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:07 PM   #390
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Insurance companies may dictate what you have in your car or not...already discounts can add upfast for even systems that have been around for decades now.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:13 PM   #391
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If I had this in my car and the sensor failed, I'd probably just turn the system off and carry on (especially if the warranty is over). So far I've driven for 40 some years without lane change assist. I can probably manage without it.
What happens if there is an accident and a victims attorney wants to know why you choose not to repair government mandated safety equipment? I would also check the fine print on your policy about maintaining your vehicle in safe working order and the implications of consciously deciding not to do so. If your car came with a backup camera, it breaks and you decide not to repair or replace it and you back over a toddler, what do you suppose a jury would think? Particularly if you are getting up in years.......?
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:25 PM   #392
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Insurance companies may dictate what you have in your car or not...already discounts can add upfast for even systems that have been around for decades now.
Wifey B: I thought some of the new gadgets and systems were silly and who needed that and oh my god wonder what we paid to have that and such. Then you get in a car with it and drive it. You realize it might just save your life sometime. You get back in a car without it and find yourself missing it. The prices will come down and you won't have a car without it.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:29 PM   #393
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It's definitely a trend in today's world, real risk management though comes from understanding the need to be aware, gizmos just make it easier to spot dangers.....only some gizmos now override human mistakes.

Till everything is automated, it's like a disconnected pilot/copilot to some degree and with not all, but many people.

It's is interesting how much stock insurance companies do put into some automation.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:40 PM   #394
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We have a 2003 MB E320 that has been a great car for all of these years. Last fall I was driving on I55 during heavy rain and started hydroplaning - had never experienced this - a bit terrifying. Then i felt the car take control, applying braking to individual wheels, turning the steering wheel, and guiding us out of trouble straight back in our lane. Had completely forgotten that this 15 yr old car has 'traction control' that has never been called for, but worked great when needed.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:49 PM   #395
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Had it not worked at least it that instance, and you didn't expect hydroplaning or how to handle it yourself ...then it's better the car does everything automatically.

That is as long as it can...if not,bit puts you and others on the road in jeapordy as much as not having the system...and it lulls an undertrained population into a false sense of security.
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Old 12-08-2018, 01:09 PM   #396
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Had it not worked at least it that instance, and you didn't expect hydroplaning or how to handle it yourself ...then it's better the car does everything automatically.

That is as long as it can...if not,bit puts you and others on the road in jeapordy as much as not having the system...and it lulls an undertrained population into a false sense of security.
Itís not false security if the systems work. And they do work. No more a false security than air bags, 3 point seat belts, anti-lock brakes, collapsible steering columns, padded dashboards etc. Ditto roofs that donít collapse in a rollover, radial tires and even safety glass, all could give a false sense of security if you think they give you permission to drive like an a$$hat.
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Old 12-08-2018, 01:33 PM   #397
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First, I apologize for getting this thread so far off track. But it does seem to be something people are interested in. Two stories, the first I read about and the second I was involved in. 1: a car went off the road backwards into a tree. The owner sued because he said the traction control should have prevented that. At the speed he was going, captured by an on board computer, he would have gone off the road even if he had been on rails. The laws of physics still apply. 2: A man was upset and wanted to sue because his sister, riding in his passenger seat, was injured during an accident. He said the airbag should have kept her from being injured. We were able to show him the airbag only works in the initial impact, not the second, third, or fourth. He entered a curved tunnel at high speed, lost control, and bounced off the tunnel wall multiple times.
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Old 12-08-2018, 02:37 PM   #398
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One thing that is becoming apparent is that what were once simple fender benders are now significant financial events. The number of sensors, radars, cameras, etc. in the fenders and bumper covers of even economy cars is astounding. A fender that once cost $800 now is filled with as much as $10,000 of electronics that are easily damaged in even minor bumps. Putting all of these sensors on the periphery of the vehicle may be necessary but it also puts them at greater risk.

We are not far from the day a nearly new compact car needing a couple of fenders and a bumper cover will be a total loss.
Not far?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...lise-for-sale/
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Old 12-08-2018, 03:07 PM   #399
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It’s not false security if the systems work. And they do work. No more a false security than air bags, 3 point seat belts, anti-lock brakes, collapsible steering columns, padded dashboards etc. Ditto roofs that don’t collapse in a rollover, radial tires and even safety glass, all could give a false sense of security if you think they give you permission to drive like an a$$hat.
Totally missing the point.... there's a huge difference in active versus passive systems.

I have enough safety and risk management training to know the difference between safety systems that eliminate the human element and those that may or may not whether functioning correctly or not.....especially those requiring active measures.

Nothing to do with how you are driving, but recognizing potential weaknesses in those systems whether fully funtional or not can be the diffetence in an accident or not.

You are in my world of operational risk mangement and a search of a thousand accidents can show where some cases active systems helped and others, the llack of human training or experience when the system failed or was inadequate definitely hurt.

Just ask Sully and a bunch of other heroes that proved training and experience, plus no false sense of security can be invaluable.
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Old 12-08-2018, 05:38 PM   #400
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For everyone that seems so pro extended warranty......there is a reason that the auto companies push them so hard. They are huge profit generators for them. They know that they will collect more from you than they will have to put out in claims. Standard warranties are 5 or 6 years or more. If something was faulty it probably would have failed in the first 5 years. If something just wears out, that's part of the cost of driving a car. Insuring against that may not be a sound financial decision.
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