Dismal news!
- Thread starter DHeckrotte
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Reality is it was already closed indefinitely, they just formalized indefinite. Now, it's just running into the scheduled work on the Deep Creek Lock which is planned to take 2 1/2 months. So, April or so looks like the earliest possible reopening to me.
psneeld
Guru
Which is what the lady at the visitor center told me back before Thanksgiving also.
But she was pretty sure all phases of the project were a go.
OP
OP
DHeckrotte
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We have not yet planned a trip south in Revel (thinking north to Canada for our first foray this summer). But we would have to rethink a route south were the canal to reopen as "The TRUMP Dismal Canal".
Huh?
OP
OP
DHeckrotte
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Wes, just a bad joke.
healhustler
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Geeze, I hope Trump doesn't get involved. He'll "drain the swamp".
OK. I thought it might have been a political statement.
We've been through the Dismal Swamp three times and the Virginia Cut once. I prefer the Dismal Swamp Canal and I hope there's enough boat traffic to reopen it and keep it open.
They appear to be continuing to work toward reopening it and I see nothing that indicates it won't be reopened. A bit of a case where the headline leaves an impression the article doesn't. I think the moment people read "indefinitely" they think there are no plans to reopen it, but everything I see says they're proceeding toward doing so, just going to take time and even if the cleanup work was complete, which it isn't, they still have the lock work scheduled. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I read the indefinite as "some time after the lock work is complete, work continuing, and not sure how long after that."
Donsan
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The competition was going to rename it "The Deplorable Canal".
Gordon J
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I second deplorable
In Sept. we did the Albemarle Loop, leaving from Hampton, VA. From the beginning of the canal to the visitors center, we encountered submerged logs close to 30 times. One encounter stopped my starboard engine. I was running at idle speed, so no damage, but still . . .
The swamp is pretty, but the Virginia Cut not so harrowing.
Gordon
In Sept. we did the Albemarle Loop, leaving from Hampton, VA. From the beginning of the canal to the visitors center, we encountered submerged logs close to 30 times. One encounter stopped my starboard engine. I was running at idle speed, so no damage, but still . . .
The swamp is pretty, but the Virginia Cut not so harrowing.
Gordon
We've never done the swamp. Many times through the Virginia Cut. We've never been there with a draft we were really comfortable doing the swamp with. We have said that one day we'll take our Rib and do it. Definitely not the route I would regularly choose as I'd only choose the swamp route to see the swamp.
psneeld
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I swear by the Dismal for many reasons...but obviously not suitable for all boats.
I have used it 7 times over the last 5 years and never touched a thing...and I travel late and early after winter storms have had their way with trees.
I draw just a hair over 4 feet and have a full keel so if I did...not too big a deal.
Now, Robert the lock master did describe how a trawler ran up on stolen SUV that got dumped in the canal....but that's not common.
If you draw 5 feet or less and the canal is reopened....it is worth one trip in a boating career.
I have used it 7 times over the last 5 years and never touched a thing...and I travel late and early after winter storms have had their way with trees.
I draw just a hair over 4 feet and have a full keel so if I did...not too big a deal.
Now, Robert the lock master did describe how a trawler ran up on stolen SUV that got dumped in the canal....but that's not common.
If you draw 5 feet or less and the canal is reopened....it is worth one trip in a boating career.
Capecodder
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Gordon J
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It was definitely beautiful, and I am glad I did it, but, it was white knuckle driving, waiting for the next bang from below. Our boat draws 4'2" and has a single keel with props on either side.
Gordon
Gordon
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OP
OP
DHeckrotte
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We have a full keel, twin props and rudders. Even though protected against damage by a shoal, I suppose a sunken object could do serious damage anyway.
Dad hit a sunken piece of timber at night while sailing the '72 Morgan 27 at speed (racing). It made a tremendous noise; he found a deep impression of a large hex head fastener in the leading edge of the lead keel when he later pulled the boat. Many years later, I removed the rotted plywood sole and found that the polyester-marble dust filler used to level the hull under the plywood was thoroughly cracked. I repaired the sole and the boat lives on in Baltimore.
Dad hit a sunken piece of timber at night while sailing the '72 Morgan 27 at speed (racing). It made a tremendous noise; he found a deep impression of a large hex head fastener in the leading edge of the lead keel when he later pulled the boat. Many years later, I removed the rotted plywood sole and found that the polyester-marble dust filler used to level the hull under the plywood was thoroughly cracked. I repaired the sole and the boat lives on in Baltimore.
We're borderline at 5'. We've never taken a boat with less draft that far north.
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Been through the swamp 8 times on 2 different boats. Definitely my preferred route. Much nicer, more scenic, and no sportfish cowboys to deal with. If you're taking the scenic route (less than 7 knots) go swamp. If you're a chest thumper focused on the next destination go Virginia cut.
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fryedaze
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There are people who swear they will never do the Dismal again. Those folks had damage that resulted in prop work. I dont blame them. If I blew $1000 I would stay away too. Fool me once! Its hard to say why some people have hit hard enough to damage equipment. They may have bad luck, run too fast, too close to other cruisers or maybe prop speed, or design has an impact. The faster you go in the shallow canal the lower your boat gets sucked to the bottom. I am on the fence knowing that folks have bent props. The $1000 gamble of a bent prop weighs heavily into my decision to run the Dismal. Having said that I am not an extremely cautious decision maker. We have run the canal three times. Every time I hear things go bump under the boat. This summer there was one hit that I felt and thought it surely bent a prop. None of my bumps on the three trips have resulted in damage. Our boat only drafts 3.5' and is a planning hull. I stay at 5 mph based on something I read on things lifting things off the bottom. Props are 25X27 with 2.66:1 tranny.
Donsan
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Is the canal ever dredged or cleaned or otherwise maintained?
psneeld
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Well....the speed limit us like 5 mph...and going any faster just results in waiting for a bridge and lock.
Even if not leaving the canal for the night, what would be the rush that risking suction to the bottom or crowding with traffic would be worth it?
I know people have done damage, but I also know as many who have done damage in the Virginia cut, Alligator Pungo canal, rockpile behind Myrtle beach, etc.
The biggest issue with the Dismal in my mind is it us narrow enough, you have to pay close attention even at 5 mph.
I can see worrying, but not sure, especially when recently cleaned like they are doing now, that it should be so feared. I could see avoiding it a peak snowbirding time...but the Virginia cut doesn't have a speed limit and that in my mind is probably worse for possible damage.
Even if not leaving the canal for the night, what would be the rush that risking suction to the bottom or crowding with traffic would be worth it?
I know people have done damage, but I also know as many who have done damage in the Virginia cut, Alligator Pungo canal, rockpile behind Myrtle beach, etc.
The biggest issue with the Dismal in my mind is it us narrow enough, you have to pay close attention even at 5 mph.
I can see worrying, but not sure, especially when recently cleaned like they are doing now, that it should be so feared. I could see avoiding it a peak snowbirding time...but the Virginia cut doesn't have a speed limit and that in my mind is probably worse for possible damage.
Yes, it is, but the level to which it's dredged is borderline or inadequate for many of us plus it frequently has a lot of debris. Our plans are to go through with a boat with no propellers one day.
The controlling depth is 6'. At that, the normal depth is probably closer to 5'. Boats with drafts under 5' are generally safe at their slowest speed although still subject to debris. Boats 5' to 6' are taking a significant risk. Boats 6' and above, stay away.
I don't choose to worry take a route that has those worries, nor to cruise at 5 knots. I do want to see it one time and will do so. For those who have drafts of 4' and below and like to go extremely slow, it's a good route. Many, as seen here, love it.
Capecodder
Senior Member
BandB, polite question, if you don't like this Canal, will never travel unless your boat has no Propellers, will not ever travel at the charted speed limit ? If charted depth is six feet, why would anyone navigate any channel who draws more water? If a sailboat has a 65' mast I would expect the operator would avoid 65' bridges
By way your boat is very pretty and I enjoy most of your posts.
By way your boat is very pretty and I enjoy most of your posts.
I'm nor sure I understand all your post but giving it a shot. I do travel at any speed limits, abide by any no wake zones. I even stuck to the 5 mph limits on the Erie, although that meant taking the boat in and out of gear. I observed many slower boats than me exceeding the limits as they just stayed in their lowest RPM which was still too fast.
People shouldn't navigate channels who have drafts that exceed the charted depth. However, many channels, including the Dismal often do not have the charted depth. If it had the charted depth, I would have navigated it. I've been in the area with a 5' draft. Based on what I was hearing from others though, I wasn't comfortable with that. Had my draft been 4', I'd have perhaps taken the route. I've also seen times that the reports of debris or growth were so great that I wouldn't have tried it. I don't know why anyone would navigate a channel where their draft exceeds it's depth or try to go under a bridge they can't clear.
The no propellers is simply that the only boat we're likely to be there with that can handle the depth is our RIB with no propellers. We use it to go in many places our boat won't go and one day will use it to travel the Dismal. Might have half of us go that route, the other half around and meet us at the other end. Then switch to return.
I do want to one day see the canal, just not going to do it in a boat where propeller damage or worse is a significant risk. Nothing against the canal. I live on a canal, surrounded by canals. Although the city only promises 5', luckily our canals are 9', 9' and 8' and no current carrying debris.
psneeld
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Again....I think a few incidents have turned people away from the Dismal.
Sure, if uncomfy...don't do it....or if your navigational depth is questionable don't do it.
But after 7 transits, I personally haven't hit anything but twigs and never say less than 6 feet on the ducer....and again that is when the weather was most likely to have left trees down. There have been quite a few and I have reported them. But going around them in a 40 to 50 footer was no issue.
I sometime have to wonder. I get all the active Captain alerts on shoaling and the vast majority of reports I find to be off. Sure there is shoaling. But there is still lots of water to be found. None have stopped me, even though I have had to back off and explore the best depths. When found, they clearly exceed what many reviewers have posted as a minimum depth.
Sure, if uncomfy...don't do it....or if your navigational depth is questionable don't do it.
But after 7 transits, I personally haven't hit anything but twigs and never say less than 6 feet on the ducer....and again that is when the weather was most likely to have left trees down. There have been quite a few and I have reported them. But going around them in a 40 to 50 footer was no issue.
I sometime have to wonder. I get all the active Captain alerts on shoaling and the vast majority of reports I find to be off. Sure there is shoaling. But there is still lots of water to be found. None have stopped me, even though I have had to back off and explore the best depths. When found, they clearly exceed what many reviewers have posted as a minimum depth.
Donsan
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Thanks. That encouraging after the horror stories being told here.
I didn't see the things said here as horror stories. I saw limited depth that if one didn't have a draft under 5' made it a questionable choice. I saw one boat that bumped but no damage 8 times, but no explanation. Talk about props but then some of what I saw also was hitting timbers traveling at night in a race. For the right boat, the swamp is enjoyable to many. For the wrong boat, it's the wrong route.
I saw a comment about 5 mph speed limit but to my knowledge there's no actual limit, it's just you must stay in a displacement mode or you'll hit and you'll stir up bottom trash. Many don't realize the adverse impact of speed.
However, it does bring up a question of speed limits. The Erie Canal has both 5 mph and 10 mph. 5 mph is 4.34 knots. How many here have boats that will go below that speed? I'm just curious. We had to go in and out of gear to do so as our idle in gear at 600 rpm is 7 knots. As I saw other boats, it appeared to me they were meeting the spirit of the rules but technically over 4.34 knots.
Florida defines it's wake zones in two classifications.
The slowest is "Idle Speed, No Wake." That is defined as "A designated area where vessels must be operated at a speed no greater than that which is necessary to maintain steerage and headway. The vessel should not produce a wake at this speed." With boats I've been on that's about 7 knots. What is it for others?
The other wake zone is "Slow Speed, Minimum Wake". That is "Areas where vessels must be fully off plane and completely settled in the water. Any wake created by a vessel in one of these zones must be minimal (very small). If your vessel is traveling with the bow even slightly elevated while in one of these zones, it is not proceeding at "Slow Speed" as required by law." For us that's generally 8 to 9 knots.
