Discouraged

[slowandsteady]

I thought it was the boat....1987 Cape Dory 28 Flybridge. All good until the engine survey and sea trial...then...the green monster reared it's ugly head from it's cramped quarters in the bilge and blew up the deal. Where do I start? Exhaust elbow and hose, not bad. Leaky turbo gasket, ok, I can do that. Raw water pump, getting worse. Leaking heat exchanger, uh oh. Blow by...epic fail. I'm trying to get my deposit back for the slip I reserved. I don't want to look at boats anymore.

 

[pilothouse king]

1987 and you expected no issues? Price out a new boat, and all of a sudden those problems are "free".

 

[slowandsteady]

I expected issues but where I come from 2500 hours on a diesel engine is almost new.

 

[THD]

Don't get discouraged. Take it slow and steady the right boat will pop up when least expected, whack you in the head and whisper in a sultry voice "Buy me, Buy me." It'll turn out ok.

 

[bligh]

I dont understand why this is a deal breaker. Try (multiple times if you have to) to get the owner to lower his price or fix the issues. 2500 hours may not be a lot of hours, but 27 years old is old engine wise. They also seem like a lot of DIY projects as well (not sure about the blow by).
I'm replacing the HX in my (new to me) boat and it has the same amount of hours in it and its not even leaking. Preventative maintenance.
You need to expect to invest work on any used boat you buy.
Maybe you should re-categorize your 'discouragement' as 'reality check.'

 

[twistedtree]

I think the blow by is the killer. I agree that all else is fixable.

 

[bligh]

I think the blow by is the killer. I agree that all else is fixable.

It's something I know little about. Sorry slowandsteady. We have all been there before. If you can't make the deal happen then you are better off and another boat will come along.

 

[BruceK]

Richard, you kiss a few frogs to find a Princess. That engine has too many issues. Keep looking, follow your TF name.

 

[Anthonyd]

I agree with Bligh. If you love the boat for other reasons and really want it, you could do as suggested. You could try to price out the repairs if the owner does not want to fix anything and use that information to re-negotiate. Don't be discouraged though, as mentioned the right boat, if it is not this one, will come along.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. s. Don't give up the ship. Well, maybe that one. There should be a sticky someplace that outlines the steps in a boat search. If I were to have an inclusion in such a "list" I would state: "Don't get emotionally involved". It's only a collection of sticks, plastic and as you found out sometimes, cast iron ready for anchor duty.
Here's something to cheer you up.
Shirley Temple - On The Good Ship Lollipop.avi - YouTube

er...wait, what?

 

[healhustler]

Think about it this way......you'd rather be temporarily discouraged from what you learned about the boat than permanently depressed from what you didn't.

 

[Ski in NC]

I'm going to throw out some unsolicited advice. I like the Cape Dory, but it is dang small for the equipment that is in it. The 200hp green monster (if it is 200hp) is right on the edge of getting to semi-planing speed of abt 15kt. Engine should be bigger or smaller.

Hull speed on the 28 is just painfully slow.

To the OP, consider broadening your search to larger DE boats, like 35' or so. Basically all the same hardware, but not crammed into such a small space. A 35 with 300hp will cruise all day long happily at 17kts, and more room to do fun boat things. It will probably cost you more than the 28, but you will get that money back on resale. And if you don't sell it, you will get payback in enjoyment.

A Bruno or Duffy or whatever with a 3208 Cat or 6b Cummins is a sweet rig.

Volvos are not horrible engines, but age catches up to them and then the parts prices KILL you. No one rebuilds small Volvos due to parts prices.

Regarding blowby: If engine starts cold ok, runs ok, minimal smoke and no funny noises, it can run that way for a long time. Also, some mechs flag normal blowby as not normal, so a bit of skepticism of the monster's condemnation is healthy.

 

[slowandsteady]

Thanks for everyone's encouragement (and video!). It wasn't so much that I was emotionally attached to the little downeaster as much as the timing was working out, a slip 5 minutes from my office was all mine and it was a local boat, on the hard when I found it, hull surveyed well and the engine survey was the last step and it was mine. For every questionable power plant there are 50% positive opinions and 50% negative. Either it's a POS or it goes 10,000 hours before an over haul, go figure. It's all in the previous owner's knowledge and care, IMO. Yes, the search will continue, and I am open to one up to 35', the 28 was on the bottom of my range. The other window open on my browser is YW....

 

[Nomad Willy]

The engine is basically worthless so get the seller to face reality. Get a price that will allow a repower. If you can do a lot of the work yourself you'll have a great boat when done ....... assuming the boat itself is much better than the engine.

Gotta get a real low price thoug and the repower doesn't need to be a new engine either.

 

[Northern Spy]

I like the Cape Dory 28. I think it looks...proud.

I think all of the TAMD 41s are getting a bit long in the tooth and many will require repower soonish. I'd spring for one of the cheaper Chrysler gas powered ones and repower with more horsepower (grunt grunt) for cheaper and use the savings for fuel to go fast and wake slow trawlers.

Wish there were more of them on the West Coast.

 

[ksanders]

Negotiate with the seller for a discount on the boat.


I bought a boat with high blow by on one engine and negotiated the seller down by the price of two new cummins reman engines...installed.

Now I have a boat with two brand new engines

 

[FF]

Hull speed on the 28 is just painfully slow.

If ICW travel is contemplated the boat will be fine as it should get to 6K , and will collect at the bridges with all the rest of a gaggle.

 

[JDCAVE]

When you finally find the right boat you will be very glad you passed on this one. When you find the right boat, you will know.

 

[FF]

All the >problems< described are from a basic lack of maint.

You would be redoing them anyway in time if the boat was 100% .

The blowby is the only real hassle , BUT how much hassle?

First it could be stuck rings from some doofus starting the engine and ideling it once in a while..

Sometimes one can get lucky and a few hours at high load will only cost a few gallons of diesel and an oil change or two, with very modern high detergent oil.

IF this does not help, blowby will lower fuel mileage a few percent and use more oil during operation.

SO WHAT? Oil is cheap and so is fuel for the usual 200 hours a year most recreation boats get used.

Perfect is always nice , BUT the cost of operating less than PERFECT may be surprisingly small , compared to the hassle/cost/risk of an engine rebuild.

RELIABLE , is a different desirement , yes the boat should be as reliable as can be done , but catch up maint and a bit of slobbering does not make the boat unreliable.

 

[Wxx3]

Richard, you kiss a few frogs to find a Princess. That engine has too many issues. Keep looking, follow your TF name.

Ditto

Last few years, I looked at many boats that had a multitude of issues.

I realized that while I wanted to work on the boat myself, I didn't want it to become the end all and for it to become the never-ending project.

The good news is that I found a boat that was well maintained and interestingly enough, the prices were all nit that different.

Keep looking, keep the slip.

Richard

 

[sunchaser]

I expected issues but where I come from 2500 hours on a diesel engine is almost new.

Unless treated right, marine age trumps hours every time. 27 years is an old engine when untreated and let go. But, price out a repower if the boat owner will price it accordingly - ie - knock off 15 to 20 grand.

 

[slowandsteady]

Well, I said I wasn't going to look at anymore boats. I lied. Saw a brand new listing on YW yesterday, called, checked it out this morning, one that I wanted from the beginning. I met the broker and the owner and checked it out myself. As I was leaving I called my surveyor who was right around the corner working on his boat. He met me there, looked it over, he gave it the thumbs up I made an offer, owner accepted, survey is Monday!
THD was right, she whispered, "Buy me, Buy me". Actually the boat screamed "Buy me!" Here she is, meet Sandy Lee IV, my new love.

 

[THD]

So much for "Slow and Steady"! Rename yourself "Fast and Furious"!

Good luck with the new boat!

 

[Ski in NC]

What motor is in it???

 

[slowandsteady]

For those that haven't recognized it, it's a Mainship 34 III with Perkins 200HP. It's more boat for less money.

 

[bligh]

Well, I said I wasn't going to look at anymore boats. I lied. Saw a brand new listing on YW yesterday, called, checked it out this morning, one that I wanted from the beginning. I met the broker and the owner and checked it out myself. As I was leaving I called my surveyor who was right around the corner working on his boat. He met me there, looked it over, he gave it the thumbs up I made an offer, owner accepted, survey is Monday!
THD was right, she whispered, "Buy me, Buy me". Actually the boat screamed "Buy me!" Here she is, meet Sandy Lee IV, my new love.

Nice looking boat!

 

[FlyWright]

Wow!! What a difference 2 days make. Congrats on your new love.

 

[N4061]

Survey Success

I thought it was the boat....1987 Cape Dory 28 Flybridge. All good until the engine survey and sea trial...then...the green monster reared it's ugly head from it's cramped quarters in the bilge and blew up the deal. Where do I start? Exhaust elbow and hose, not bad. Leaky turbo gasket, ok, I can do that. Raw water pump, getting worse. Leaking heat exchanger, uh oh. Blow by...epic fail. I'm trying to get my deposit back for the slip I reserved. I don't want to look at boats anymore.

Congratulations, you did the right thing so don't beat yourself up! You were smart enough to spend a few dollars, higher an inspector who appears did his job and saved you a lot of money and headaches. As others have pointed out, this is a 25 year old boat so you should have gone in with that mind-set.

We were in similar shoes when were looking for our boat and the one found was only 9 years old, very low hours and had an owner who used an open checkbook to keep her like new. Despite this, the survey found a few issues which we took care of and missed an overheating stuffing box that cost me a few thousands to take care and this is on a boat this a true 9.5 out of 10. Bottom line is don't get discouraged, take your time and you will find your boat.

John T.
N3522
La Tempestad

 

[Art]

That IS part of the Miracles inside pleasure boating world! You will soon begin experiencing more Miracle Parts! Congrats!! - Art

 

[Ski in NC]

That Perkins 200 comes with the dreaded "manicooler", combined heat exchanger, exh and intake manifold. Cast aluminum, it can corrode badly where the bronze HX end caps seat. Make sure that gets a good thorough look over. Not sure if the manicooler is still avaiable, but even if it is, it is very expensive. Contact TAD in virginia and see if still available. Charge air and oil cooler have similar issues. Al with brnz caps.

Otherwise, a pretty good engine. Not sure how long parts are going to be available, but since there are so many still out there, the market usually fills the needs.