Cruising With A Firearm
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Alaskaflyer
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Is New York your destination, or *a* destination as part of whatever trip you are making? The problem that I see most boaters would have is while they may be cruising to somewhere else, they may be spending a few days in the state which puts the provisions of FOPA (federal law which is supposed to protect your right to transport from a jurisdiction where you have a right to possess the firearm, to another jurisdiction where you you have right to possess the firearm) as poor protection under the circumstances considering New York law, not to mention county or city ordinances.
The only opinion which matters is that of the law enforcement officer who contacts you (unlikely, though a safety check or boarding in NY may involve questions about firearms? No idea.) and the District Attorney. The law in NY broadly stated is that you may not possess a handgun without permit and registration, and there is no reciprocity, and no way to obtain one for mere mortals who are not residents. FOPA is often disregarded, or interpreted strictly (direct route, no stopping etc.) I would not want to be in the position of arguing my boat is my home even if it was my home and that isn’t really a defense to NY law anyhow.
There is another federal statute commonly known as LEOSA which allows active and retired law enforcement officers from anywhere in the US to carry (with some restrictions) in every state/locality - which is supposed to preempt state and local laws on the subject. Regardless, LEOs are regularly hassled and even charged in NY and NJ, and subjected to additional requirements that were supposed to be preempted.
The only opinion which matters is that of the law enforcement officer who contacts you (unlikely, though a safety check or boarding in NY may involve questions about firearms? No idea.) and the District Attorney. The law in NY broadly stated is that you may not possess a handgun without permit and registration, and there is no reciprocity, and no way to obtain one for mere mortals who are not residents. FOPA is often disregarded, or interpreted strictly (direct route, no stopping etc.) I would not want to be in the position of arguing my boat is my home even if it was my home and that isn’t really a defense to NY law anyhow.
There is another federal statute commonly known as LEOSA which allows active and retired law enforcement officers from anywhere in the US to carry (with some restrictions) in every state/locality - which is supposed to preempt state and local laws on the subject. Regardless, LEOs are regularly hassled and even charged in NY and NJ, and subjected to additional requirements that were supposed to be preempted.
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This question will dig up lots of opinions but if you feel the need to cruise armed then I would suggest first obtaining a carry permit for your handgun in your home state. Many states have a reciprocity agreement though NY doesn’t. Many states consider cruising yachts like homes and in that respect unless you’re suspected of something will leave you alone. More or less a variation of sanctity of the home. The possible rub comes by crossing state borders with a handgun. I competed for years with handguns and lived in New England. In so doing I crossed thru many states with very restrictive handgun laws but never had any problems. NYC and upstate NY are really almost different states. In the city they frown heavily on handguns but upstate rarely.
Finally you can really solve your problem by ditching the revolver for a shotgun. Shotguns and most rifles are easily moved across state lines and transferred. Plus if your need is a defensive one then a marine 12 or 20 ga answers nicely. Good luck
Finally you can really solve your problem by ditching the revolver for a shotgun. Shotguns and most rifles are easily moved across state lines and transferred. Plus if your need is a defensive one then a marine 12 or 20 ga answers nicely. Good luck
I would not dream of having a loaded and accessible pistol in the state of NY. CWP is of no consequence in NY. The only way I would consider it would be to have the gun and the ammunition locked up separately from each other and at opposite ends of the boat. I have read of some real horror stories about pistols in NY. It just is not worth it. A legal length 12 gauge in stainless with a high capacity magazine tube should work better than almost anything. Whatever your plan I would call the NY State Police and verify it's legality and get a badge number for whoever you speak with.
psneeld
Guru
There are legal organizations or gun organizations that specialize in various state gun laws.
I would contact one of them as they not only know the laws, they know whether jurisdictions are ignoring federal protections....I've had a NJ prosecutor and police tell me how NJ ignores the federal law to some degree so consider that advice tat taking anecdotal internet info is a risky proposition.
I would contact one of them as they not only know the laws, they know whether jurisdictions are ignoring federal protections....I've had a NJ prosecutor and police tell me how NJ ignores the federal law to some degree so consider that advice tat taking anecdotal internet info is a risky proposition.
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
My opinion is that you need to comply with all laws of any state or country you are visiting.
Remember that every state is a sovereign entity and as such has the right to enact laws that govern possession of firearms within it's boundaries.
You might have a 2nd amendment case but your federal rights will really not matter to the officers that arrest you or the prosecuting attorney that will file felony charges against you for violating their states laws.
This is true of a lot of things, not just firearms. Another great example is marijuana. You can buy the stuff legally at any of the hundreds of pot shops in Alaska, but go to another state with your weed and they can and will lock you up.
Always remember that you are a guest when traveling out of your home state and act accordingly.
Remember that every state is a sovereign entity and as such has the right to enact laws that govern possession of firearms within it's boundaries.
You might have a 2nd amendment case but your federal rights will really not matter to the officers that arrest you or the prosecuting attorney that will file felony charges against you for violating their states laws.
This is true of a lot of things, not just firearms. Another great example is marijuana. You can buy the stuff legally at any of the hundreds of pot shops in Alaska, but go to another state with your weed and they can and will lock you up.
Always remember that you are a guest when traveling out of your home state and act accordingly.
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Alaskaflyer
Guru
Not similar, exactly, I’ll tell you why below.
But first, the main PITA is that you would have to report to a POE with an office and not just submit to a dockside contact with a border services officer. There you would present your (hopefully pre-filled) declaration form and your fee, and sign it in front of a border services officer.
You would need to declare your reason for importation - hunting, sporting, wilderness protection, or transport directly though the country to another jurisdiction (protection from crime is not a valid reason for importation.) Would the BSO accept the argument that it is necessary for transport through Canada to the US when the whole reason you are visiting Canada is for pleasure before returning to the US on the loop route? Hmmm…not sure I’d rely on that. That is the difference from transiting to Alaska. I’d sure like to hear from anyone who made that argument in the Great Lakes region and were successful.
The AGLCA strongly discourages this, as do some of the other looper resource sites. I’m sure people do it, and many more doubtless try to fly under the radar in Canada and are no doubt successful on a regular basis since most people clear by phone. There are workarounds, such as shipping to a gun dealer near where you will re-enter the US so you can pick it up.
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Agreed - we live in NY.
"I would not dream of having a loaded and accessible pistol in the state of NY."
No handguns onboard.
"A legal length 12 gauge in stainless with a high capacity magazine tube should work better than almost anything."
No pistol grip, no high cap mags, no short barrels, longer tube capacity OK.
“ Finally you can really solve your problem by ditching the revolver for a shotgun. Shotguns and most rifles are easily moved across state lines and transferred. Plus if your need is a defensive one then a marine 12 or 20 ga answers nicely. “
Repeat, the shotgun pretty much eliminates your firearm problems even in Canada where it’s not restricted. Just properly stow unloaded and do not alter or buy some whacko militaristic fringe Hollywood ‘ street sweeper ‘ device that begs you for a good lawyer and jail food. Be safe and low profile.
Repeat, the shotgun pretty much eliminates your firearm problems even in Canada where it’s not restricted. Just properly stow unloaded and do not alter or buy some whacko militaristic fringe Hollywood ‘ street sweeper ‘ device that begs you for a good lawyer and jail food. Be safe and low profile.
Woodland Hills
Guru
A short shotgun in 20ga would be good boat defense weapon that could be handled by a woman. How about one of these, they are Canada Legal and come in 2 3/4” and 3” chambers and 12 and 20 ga. A blast of 20 ga birdshot will discourage anyone and will probably not penetrate the topsides and endanger anyone else in the marina, unlike a 9mm or .45. Plus the sound of a shell being racked into the chamber has a deterrent effect of its own, often that is enough.
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Did you do a search on “interstate transport of firearms” and look at reputable legal websites for the quoted law on the subject. Then maybe print it out, discuss it with your attorney and determine if the law distinguishes between “vehicle” and “vessel.” Keep a copy on your boat.
rgano
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Alaskaflyer nailed the PO's question about NY. I will always leave my firearm at home when heading that direction, which I hope is never.
Zoar
Senior Member
New York is a very, very, very beautiful place. The People are also---for the most part---wonderful people, and sensible and easy to work with.
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Pgitug
Guru
Thank you all for your comments and opinions. After reading all the posts I am sure that the only person put on the dangerous end of a pistol on board would be me. So not going to risk it. The 20 gauge shot gun with standard five round magazine m, no pistol grip, sounds like a good fit. Appreciate the advice. [emoji106]
Zoar
Senior Member
By far MOST of New York has a very low population density, and as a boater you are subjected to even fewer people than in many other states in NY.
The average United States population density is approximately 92.9 residents per square mile of land area. The county I live in NY is 53 people per square mile. Compare that to many places heralded by boaters. Most of Upstate NY has a population density UNDER the national average.
Greg Sutton
Member
I recall current boat safety literature indicating a gun shot 2 seconds apart is a coast guard recognized distress signal. The booklet shows a clear depiction of a 1911 handgun. Doesn't that make the 1911 a safety signaling device?
stubones99
Guru
Close quarters operation of a shotgun (of legal length) is easy to defend against... Since most boats are smaller, if you're within arms reach of the barrel, use it as a lever away from yourself, at the risk of getting shot in the process... While a shotgun is generally a good self defense weapon, unless you've practiced with it, and have room to operate it, it could be a liability.
It takes practice to handle a stockless shotgun, like a Mossberg 590, which would be a better self defense shotgun, if you've trained with it. It isn't the gun as much as it is the shooter... You have to practice with whatever weapon you plan to use in a self-defense situation, and practice multiple situations.
magna 6882
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Its to bad we have to discus personal protection while traveling but its just the new America. While no new york citizens may carry they sure dont have a problem getting guns to criminals leaving regular guys sitting ducks. I usually have a Kris Vector and a browning, both 9mm while traveling in the motorhome and on the boat a walther pk380 and a tavor x95 5.56. Both my wife and i are licensed and experienced. I dont expect to really need anything for defense for myself but i have this thing about everything going to hell in a handbasket while not at home where i have a better supply.
Alaskaflyer
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FF
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Boats are small , a bull pup shotgun is handier than a long gun.
At night a built on flashlight is nice.
The Hi Standard 10B semi auto unit has a heavy receiver so it absorbs much of the 12g recoil, which makes one handed operation easy . Built for right handed operation only.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Standard_Model_10
At night a built on flashlight is nice.
The Hi Standard 10B semi auto unit has a heavy receiver so it absorbs much of the 12g recoil, which makes one handed operation easy . Built for right handed operation only.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Standard_Model_10
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catalinajack
Guru
Too many New Yorkers in New York? Or, is New York overpopulated? Have you ever been to New York State anywhere north of Westchester? No different than Maine, Vermont, or New Hampshire.
catalinajack
Guru
Agree. Boaters are far safer on the water than they are on land but I do have a Mossberg 590a1 eight shot (8+1) on board just because I own one. Did the Loop without it cuz I did not want to go through the Canadian process for bringing it along.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Iggy
Guru
I was in N.Y. City with my wife and dog a few years ago. We stayed in a hotel in Time Sq. It was time for a walk and there where 2 officers in the lobby on the way out. Of course my dog wanted to say hi to them. No big deal and we got to talking.
One asked about the knife in my pocket. I told them that I am a boater and ways carry one. At the time I was wearing the Club hat and jacket. They told me and I don't know how true this is. That it was unlawful to carry a knife. They were good about it and said just go back to your room and leave it there. So I did!
A firearm for protection is very much like a fire extinguisher. A piece of safety equipment that you should have but hope you will never need. The similarity goes further. It is all too often a piece of equipment that when you do need it you won’t know how to use it.
As a defensive tool it is the ‘ great equalizer ‘ as Col. Colt proclaimed but it should always be your last option. I and many more knowledgeable people firmly believe that in the house, the boat or R/V the best perimeter defense is a yappy protective small breed dog. A dog who likes to nap during the days but remains keen at night. If an intruder gets past the dog you will at least have time to take a position in your safety location and you must know that position.
As a defensive tool it is the ‘ great equalizer ‘ as Col. Colt proclaimed but it should always be your last option. I and many more knowledgeable people firmly believe that in the house, the boat or R/V the best perimeter defense is a yappy protective small breed dog. A dog who likes to nap during the days but remains keen at night. If an intruder gets past the dog you will at least have time to take a position in your safety location and you must know that position.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. I. How did they know you had a knife in your pocket?
Mr. I. How did they know you had a knife in your pocket?
Sleeping Bear
Veteran Member
Firearms
A few years ago we were entering Canada on our sailboat, and did the entry over the phone because of the card we had (can't remember which one as they change), and the gal asked if we had food on board... duhh!!
So a few days later I was on the dock in Gore Bay (Canada) and along comes the very nice Border lady, and I asked about the food thing, and she said "Aww, we don't care about food, but if you come in with a firearm you're going to JAIL"
Just sayin.
A few years ago we were entering Canada on our sailboat, and did the entry over the phone because of the card we had (can't remember which one as they change), and the gal asked if we had food on board... duhh!!
So a few days later I was on the dock in Gore Bay (Canada) and along comes the very nice Border lady, and I asked about the food thing, and she said "Aww, we don't care about food, but if you come in with a firearm you're going to JAIL"
Just sayin.
In Michigan there are requirements for barrel length and overall length of all long guns. Anything that does not meet that length is considered a pistol. This is more of a purchase issue than a transport issue, but it does speak to varying laws by state. I am not sure, but I think if you are in a moving device containing a toilet, stove, and a bed it is considered a home or domicile.
Canada- If you want to transport a legal length and capacity shotgun into Canada you must follow VERY precise rules. Get caught and you will wish you had not. Lawyers and court travel alone are onerous. During duck season the border agents are somewhat used to it, but in off season you will get far more scrutiny.
Canada- If you want to transport a legal length and capacity shotgun into Canada you must follow VERY precise rules. Get caught and you will wish you had not. Lawyers and court travel alone are onerous. During duck season the border agents are somewhat used to it, but in off season you will get far more scrutiny.
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