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Old 05-13-2021, 04:45 PM   #81
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I do not see any need to carry a firearm. Pepper gel works.
Some states support Castle Doctrine, other states you have a duty to retreat.
Shooting someone who is attempting to steal property may well result in manslaughter charges. Tens of thousands in legal fees with a high risk of conviction to protect a few hundred dollars in a wallet? They can have it.
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Old 05-13-2021, 05:14 PM   #82
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Wow, so much anti-New York sentiment here and so much fear mongering.


I think I need to take a break from this forum.
Could just take a break from this thread. The rest of the forum is pretty good. I figure it’s nobody’s business how I plan to defend my home. Surprise makes any defense more effective.
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Old 05-13-2021, 06:01 PM   #83
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But there is no way that I would ever rule out transiting through NY, there are just to many nice spots on the Great Lakes and Canada to see!

Jim
I agree!
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Old 05-13-2021, 06:18 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Zoar View Post
I have tried to stay out of this gun discussion. But no longer can hold back.

As a USMC veteran who shot expert and as a gun owner gun collector I am ever astonished at all the arguments advocating for "needing" a gun for self defense. And, the argument for "the need" is without a doubt intensifying.

I side with those who suggest intelligent alternatives or who sight the fact that the need is blown way out of proportion.

Believe it our not I took my boat on the waterway right through New York City and we were not attacked or mugged; no one even shot at us. I Know: Amazing, right?!!

I have traveled the world many times and have spent time in a vast array of cultures. What I see in the US is a culture of fear (and yes it is growing) where the solution for this fear is the advocacy of using guns for shooting other Americans. This fear and recommended solution pervades everything. And while the argument may be about "the" solution for "the fear" is advocating the use of guns to shoot other humans specifically on boats the net result is all of these cases or situations where guns are advocated to shoot other humans serves to create a culture where guns to shoot others IS a pervasive and accepted argument virtually universally within the culture. Net result---even more shootings, then that causes more fear and that pushes the argument for more guns for shooting other people, and that results in more actual shootings. It is a cycle of madness and more fear and more gun violence.

In cultures where guns are NOT so advocated for shooting other people (out off defense or whatever argument seems to justify getting and using guns to shoot other people) they have far LESS shootings of other people.
Then they use knives.
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Old 05-13-2021, 07:16 PM   #85
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Then they use knives.
ignored the whole point of the comment there, eh?
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Old 05-14-2021, 12:50 PM   #86
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New Jersey has stricter gun laws. Be careful around NJ
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Old 05-14-2021, 01:42 PM   #87
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Here's a solution...

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Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
A short shotgun in 20ga would be good boat defense weapon that could be handled by a woman. How about one of these, they are Canada Legal and come in 2 3/4” and 3” chambers and 12 and 20 ga. A blast of 20 ga birdshot will discourage anyone and will probably not penetrate the topsides and endanger anyone else in the marina, unlike a 9mm or .45. Plus the sound of a shell being racked into the chamber has a deterrent effect of its own, often that is enough.
I think I'll search online for a .WAV file of a pump action shotgun, and program it into my boat's sound system with a special button to launch it. If we get an unwanted visitor, the sound may be enough to get them going! LOL

BTW, the new low light capable Wyze CAM v3 gives an amazing view of what is going on outside one's boat at night when you are tucked inside.

Mainer who sold all his guns when he moved to Long Island NY.

Just to add to everyone else's comments, the NY City restrictions on handguns are incredibly strict (even for people with permits), and currently escalated to the US Supreme Court as possibly being too strict.
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Old 05-14-2021, 02:24 PM   #88
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Carrying a firearm, any firearm, needs some basic reasoning, and some tough sole searching.
Such as...
- where are you planning to cruise where a firearm adds peace of mind.
- is the owner whipping himself/herself into a lather by reacting to media.
- Ok, the owner of a firearm uses it. Now what.
- if an owner has a plan of action, that plan better be at/near/ready and
able to get to and use said firearm. A risky and wishful thinking at best.
- An owner is asked .. "Do you have firearms on board? Now what?
- Suppose you have a fire on board, plus ammunition. Now What?
- Checking with a marina, allowing firearms? I personally haven't, but I'm
thinking there's a first time for everything.
- Suppose the boat is broken into and guess what is stolen. Now what?

I'm just as concerned as the next guy to protect my family and what's mine.
On the other hand, I'd weight the risks, actual or potential, concerning
carrying firearms... any firearm, on a vessel.
Just saying.
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Old 05-15-2021, 02:51 AM   #89
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I'm following this discussion from the other side of the world.
A long time ago I did 30,000+ nm, double handed, in the South Pacific and South East Asia. The only time we felt a need for or ever carried a gun was in the Kimberley region of Australia. There the issue was saltwater crocodiles. You'd feel a tad exposed going ashore in a rubber boat.
Now I have a boat on Vancouver Island, that I hope I will eventually be allowed to use, post covid. It occurred to me that if I can ever get up there, I would like to see the San Juans and SE Alaska again.
Reading many of these posts however, I am getting the strong sense that I should not cross into US waters unless I am armed and prepared to kill someone or something. If I take the boat across the line, I should be prepared to defend myself with deadly force-Have I got that right?
Have things changed that much in a couple of decades?
Who or what is it that I must be prepared to kill? The salt water crocodile has made a huge comeback since they banned hunting them, but they haven't made it to Roche Harbour, have they?
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Old 05-15-2021, 03:41 AM   #90
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[QUOTE=[B]Inbreaker;1004654]The only time we felt a need for or ever carried a gun was in the Kimberley region of Australia. There the issue was saltwater crocodiles. You'd feel a tad exposed going ashore in a rubber boat.[/B]


I'm sitting in Margaret River, Western Australia(wine region south of Perth) about to venture up into croc territory for 6 weeks. Decided not to take a shotgun, just bought some very fast joggers.

IMHO, Zoar's post is well thought out and well put. His conclusions seem to be based more on lived experience than ideology, always a good start.
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Old 05-15-2021, 06:31 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Inbreaker View Post
I'm following this discussion from the other side of the world.
A long time ago I did 30,000+ nm, double handed, in the South Pacific and South East Asia. The only time we felt a need for or ever carried a gun was in the Kimberley region of Australia. There the issue was saltwater crocodiles. You'd feel a tad exposed going ashore in a rubber boat.
Now I have a boat on Vancouver Island, that I hope I will eventually be allowed to use, post covid. It occurred to me that if I can ever get up there, I would like to see the San Juans and SE Alaska again.
Reading many of these posts however, I am getting the strong sense that I should not cross into US waters unless I am armed and prepared to kill someone or something. If I take the boat across the line, I should be prepared to defend myself with deadly force-Have I got that right?
Have things changed that much in a couple of decades?
Who or what is it that I must be prepared to kill? The salt water crocodile has made a huge comeback since they banned hunting them, but they haven't made it to Roche Harbour, have they?
It's just a discussion amongst US citizens of how best to be incompliance with out various states' laws. Don't get yourself all wound up about it. There is risk every time you open your door and go out, even in supposedly peaceful Canada.
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Old 05-15-2021, 08:18 AM   #92
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I just finishing viewing quite a few episodes of “Under Arrest” on NetFlix filmed in Canada. Only a few drive by shootings with AK47’s or handgun arrests. But lots of knives, look alike pellet pistols and attacks with lengths of rebar, hammers and machetes. When a particular weapon is legally restricted the next best un-restricted weapon will be used not only in Canada but everywhere, I guess it is human nature and the need to protect one self and love ones. I tried thinking of one place weapons are not needed for self protection if you don’t want to become a victim
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Old 05-15-2021, 09:08 AM   #93
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I can think of only a three times in my life when I thought I might need to defend myself with a gun. Once in 1981 during a bad storm we sailed into the lee of Gun Cay along the south end lighthouse and right into a drug unloading between a houseboat and two cigarettes. We stayed as far away from them as we could, stayed off the radio, and put everyone below the waterline on the sole. I loaded my Remington Sportmans 58 and it promptly jammed. By the time I got it functional they were gone. Pump shotguns only!

The second time was in a purchase transaction where the other person threatened me. I was armed and extremely concerned I might have to defend myself. I took the beef to the local police station rather than getting mixed up in a gun fight. I truly needed my gun, but was unwilling to use it unless it came to the very last moment of NO OTHER CHOICE. Being trapped inside a boat or somewhere else is likely to result in the feeling of nowhere to escape to.

The third time is when some little hooded punk was coming to rob me when I was filling up my truck. I saw him eyeball me and change his course right for me. I was unarmed. I squared up to him and reached into the small of my back and essentially dared him to keep coming. My bluff worked. Here was a time I was prepared to use a gun and did not have it. The threat of a gun was all I needed.

I have never carried a gun on my boat with the single exception of the Bahamas story I mentioned. That time I would have gotten us all killed if I had shown it to a greatly superior force. My intention was to lie on the sole with my friends and use it as a last resort.

This topic is very much a personal choice. I would guess that most times you might actually need a gun it will be too late or more likely to get you killed. My home and my boat are both places I intend to defend as my sovereign territory. They also happen to be places I feel somewhat trapped in. I carry a gun situationally into situations that are potentially dangerous AND that I cannot avoid. Boat alarms and my 130 lb German Shepherd should be all the deterrent I need and thus I do not plan to be armed on my boat. Anyone who gets past my dog will make quick work of me. This could also be a very good reason to have a gun on board. I view this as a one in a million chance and prefer the mind set of not being armed. I reserve the right to act differently if those million to one odds change substantially.
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Old 05-15-2021, 09:42 AM   #94
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Cruising With A Firearm

Only 2 times for me, both in Bahamas. Mid ‘80’s doing diving in center of andros. A place called twin lakes. Approached by armed folks; more than likely in the transport business. We were camping, armed with only 1 12 gauge. 2nd time anchored at little harbour berries. Another illicit trade situation. Fishing boat with smaller skiffs in tow; mother ship just offshore in deep water. We were in a morgan 41, i curled up that nite with my hk91.

Of course, the blame is with the US demand🤯
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Old 05-15-2021, 10:17 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by moparharn View Post
I can think of only a three times in my life when I thought I might need to defend myself with a gun. Once in 1981 during a bad storm we sailed into the lee of Gun Cay along the south end lighthouse and right into a drug unloading between a houseboat and two cigarettes. We stayed as far away from them as we could, stayed off the radio, and put everyone below the waterline on the sole. I loaded my Remington Sportmans 58 and it promptly jammed. By the time I got it functional they were gone. Pump shotguns only!

The second time was in a purchase transaction where the other person threatened me. I was armed and extremely concerned I might have to defend myself. I took the beef to the local police station rather than getting mixed up in a gun fight. I truly needed my gun, but was unwilling to use it unless it came to the very last moment of NO OTHER CHOICE. Being trapped inside a boat or somewhere else is likely to result in the feeling of nowhere to escape to.

j
The third time is when some little hooded punk was coming to rob me when I was filling up my truck. I saw him eyeball me and change his course right for me. I was unarmed. I squared up to him and reached into the small of my back and essentially dared him to keep coming. My bluff worked. Here was a time I was prepared to use a gun and did not have it. The threat of a gun was all I needed.

I have never carried a gun on my boat with the single exception of the Bahamas story I mentioned. That time I would have gotten us all killed if I had shown it to a greatly superior force. My intention was to lie on the sole with my friends and use it as a last resort.

This topic is very much a personal choice. I would guess that most times you might actually need a gun it will be too late or more likely to get you killed. My home and my boat are both places I intend to defend as my sovereign territory. They also happen to be places I feel somewhat trapped in. I carry a gun situationally into situations that are potentially dangerous AND that I cannot avoid. Boat alarms and my 130 lb German Shepherd should be all the deterrent I need and thus I do not plan to be armed on my boat. Anyone who gets past my dog will make quick work of me. This could also be a very good reason to have a gun on board. I view this as a one in a million chance and prefer the mind set of not being armed. I reserve the right to act differently if those million to one odds change substantially.
NO OTHEr CHOICE definitely my rule also, danger situation yes , my size 6’3” 210 helps but now that I’m among the ranks of the elderly conceal carry evens the odds ashore and afloat.
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Old 05-15-2021, 02:46 PM   #96
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There are just too many of them there.

Spoken like someone who's never been there. Gotta get out more, beautiful state, abundant forests and fishing, friendly people, what's not to like?
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Old 05-15-2021, 04:06 PM   #97
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My experience....those that are prepared to meet violence are generally prepared for it and alert for it, therefore capable of recognizing and avoiding serious danger before it develops.

Vulnerable people are not prepared, fail to recognize it, and even with a gun are probably more dangerous (even with training) to themselves or bystanders.

Not anti gun, or pro gun... they are just tools and the craftsman has got to know which one and when to use. Not everyone, in fact few, are craftsman at handling bad situations.
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Old 05-15-2021, 05:49 PM   #98
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There are just too many of them there.

Spoken like someone who's never been there. Gotta get out more, beautiful state, abundant forests and fishing, friendly people, what's not to like?
Oh, I have been there alright! Just amputate NYC and it's not so bad.
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Old 05-15-2021, 06:08 PM   #99
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There have been several but the first time I "almost" had to use it was in the 70's in the New Mexico mountains with another couple and their young son. We were stopped, having some lunch when a truck with 3 or 4 guys in it stopped about 50 yards down the dirt road, eyeballing us. They watched us and we watched them. Our friends and I were doing some target practice before lunch and I still had a 6" .44 Mag S&W on the tailgate. I picked it up, let them see it and the promptly did a U-turn and drove off.

The other time I was a cop and to make a long story short, the bad guy took a shot at me from 40' away with a 12 gauge pump gun. Unfortunately I knew the diff between concealment and cover and he didn't. I introduced him to my "one and done" program and that brought a quick halt to his plans.
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Old 05-15-2021, 07:13 PM   #100
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Rich, with respect, I would much rather frequent Manhattan than where you live any day, any month, any year. Each to his own. City folk, country folk, each different, all Americans.
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Oh, I have been there alright! Just amputate NYC and it's not so bad.
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