Cruising With A Firearm

[stubones99]

In some states, carrying a knife in your pocket can be considered a concealed weapon, but using the pocket clip (like Iggy did) makes it non-concealed...
The last traffic stop I had, the officer saw my CCW permit and said "Don't show me yours and I won't show you mine..." referring to my handgun...

 

[rgano]

Lately, florida is mostly new yorkers...

Even up here in the sticks along the long vacant expanses of I-10 thirty five miles north of me, my sister-in-law sold a 40-acre lot and house to a bunch of New Yawkers who before they even gave their names to her that they were NOT Democrats and that they were fleeing Cuomo's NY. We had to laugh at that one. They are certainly an industrious lot as we see all sorts of yellow equipment knocking down tree or building up something every time we go by there when visiting the sis-in-law. My FL native wife calls them "those Yankee people." Whatayagonnado?

 

[OldDan1943]

I did not feel a need for a firearm on the boat until, while asleep, I was broken into, wallet, IDs, credit cards and about $800 cash. I had to drive, w/o a license, to the airport and travel on my passport.
I came back with a 12ga Mossberg 8 shot pump shotgun.
I told everyone I was very pissed and had a shotgun on board.
Told the dock master too. Everyone around the marina knew I was robbed and now had a gun onboard. Told them all, the next time, the robbers would exit off the wet end of the boat.
Interestingly, I have never shot it, never loaded it.
I guess I should buy some rubber bullet shells for it.
Slugs, and rubber bullets should do the trick without too much damage to the boat.

 

[Bacchus]

Not sure where you got you figures from, but they are not right at all for NY state where it is 428 last year, and 400 for FL. My touristy county is 126, but the next county over is just 20, and I like living in my unincorporated area between the two where my true stainless steel S&W .44 magnum hand cannon served as my gator gun a couple days ago.

You are correct... my mistake I took prior post #s incorrectly. So NY & FL are ONE position apart in the 50 state rankings for density and less than 2% difference.
Seems like a case of pot & kettle arguing.
No need to start arguments or name calling.
Both have some high density and very low density areas so pointless to make generalizations.

 

[ksanders]

The big thing guys is to comply with the laws of the state or country you are visiting.

I am a pretty avid firearms owner who is departing soon on a trip that will take me through states and countries with restrictive firearms laws.

My guns are staying home for the trip

 

[moparharn]

You are right, you should let this go. This is why I said " A quality high corrosion resistance finish would work well too. A marine oriented shotgun is what I am intending to recommend." So if you feel the need to nit pick, go ahead.
Search gunbroker.com for stainless shotguns and you will find some there. Stoeger, Ruger, and others make, or made , stainless shotguns. I have owned one. They are hard to find and impractical to manufacture, but they are available. I wish I had left out the word stainless and just stayed with marine shotgun. A good corrosion resistant marine shotgun is what I intended and what I said. If you want to take me to task on there being no stainless shotguns, then you are wrong. So let it go. If you want to say, good luck finding a stainless shotgun that would be better than the marine grade guns readily available from several manufacturers, and that stainless is a bad choice for a shotgun, then you are correct sir. This is all I have to say on this subject. Truly amazing how quickly this forum can get off track.

I should let this go but accuracy is important. Forget the advertising names for coatings as they mean nothing.

Mossberg uses a baked on product called Marinecote
Wichester uses a mat hard chrome treatment, Permacote ?
Remington uses electroless nickel

Dig a little deeper and specify ‘ marine shotguns ‘

 

[OldDan1943]

To date, seldom if ever is a recreational boater 'attacked' while underway.
Lonely anchorages, maybe a few.
Consider traveling unarmed and if you feel the need for a gun at your destination, either keep moving or go ashore and buy a shotgun. The states are more accepting about someone buying a shotgun.

Final solution: slip the gun and ammo over the 'unseen' side of the boat.

 

[Shrew]

Interestingly, I have never shot it, never loaded it.
I guess I should buy some rubber bullet shells for it.
Slugs, and rubber bullets should do the trick without too much damage to the boat.

If you haven't already, please consider taking a gun safety course. I'd also strongly urge you to take it to a range and familiarize yourself with loading, unloading, firing and making it safe.

Fumbling in the dark with neighbors close by and possibly loved ones closer is no time to 'figure it out'. Each of my weapons is just a little different (e.g safety location, slide release, etc).

A shotgun is going to do some massive damage to the inside of a boat. Unfortunately, what you experienced was a non-violent crime which didn't actually warrant self defense at all.

 

[Hippocampus]

I hunt and cut paper with a wide assortment from long guns (bushmaster, benelli .308 etc.) to a variety of handguns (1911, 9s,.380 even single shot target). . Enjoy upland birds so do skeet as well. Still, have decided for international cruising guns are just not worth the hassle. For domestic unless you have the masters of the universe arrogance of the bonfires of the vanities types a bit of simple street sense will keep you out of trouble. I have a CC and the dirt dwelling is in MA which is as restrictive as NY. Don’t carry in my day to day. Pick my spots/times to carry. On the boat a alarm system, bear spray, my line cutter, kbar and common sense have served me well. Would rather think through how you can make yourself a very unlikely target rather than shooting back at one.

 

[JLD]

Alaskaflyer nailed the PO's question about NY. I will always leave my firearm at home when heading that direction, which I hope is never.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But there is no way that I would ever rule out transiting through NY, there are just to many nice spots on the Great Lakes and Canada to see!

Jim

 

[OldDan1943]

If you haven't already, please consider taking a gun safety course. I'd also strongly urge you to take it to a range and familiarize yourself with loading, unloading, firing and making it safe.

Fumbling in the dark with neighbors close by and possibly loved ones closer is no time to 'figure it out'. Each of my weapons is just a little different (e.g safety location, slide release, etc).

A shotgun is going to do some massive damage to the inside of a boat. Unfortunately, what you experienced was a non-violent crime which didn't actually warrant self defense at all.

Thank you. I have experience with the same 12ga pump, loading and unloading. I just hate to fire mine because then I would have to clean it.
I do have a weapons permit too.

non violent? How was I to know if they had a gun?
Someone break into my boat while I am onboard, dead of night, they mean me harm.
Many times, merely racking a shotgun is more than enough.

 

[dannc]

...
Interestingly, I have never shot it, never loaded it.
I guess I should buy some rubber bullet shells for it.
Slugs, and rubber bullets should do the trick without too much damage to the boat.

Not sure why you would want rubber bullet shells.

Shooting a firearm at someone, even if one intends to miss and does miss, is considered a use of deadly force. One had better have been in a situation where deadly force was required.

The need to use deadly force in the US is to protect yourself or another, from a situation where one was likely to die or suffer serious bodily injury.

If one is in a deadly force incident why would one want to fire rubber bullets which might not stop the threat?

Shotgun slugs or shot will tear the heck out of the interior of a boat or anything else for that matter. Slugs and buckshot are likely to go THROUGH the interior partitions found on boats. Bird shot might not. Given the short distances on the interior of a boat, shot is not going to spread too much.

A pump shotgun is complicated to use. There is a slide release, the slide and a safety. It takes practice to use a pump gun and I have seen more than one person, f.... it up and dump shells on the ground when they meant to put the round in the chamber. One can jam up a pump gun that will require disassembly to fix. If one is in a situation that requires deadly force, and one jams up the pump gun, well, one is about to have a very bad day get worse.

A firearm safety class would be a good thing along with practice, practice and more practice.

Later,
Dan

 

[smitty477]

I did not feel a need for a firearm on the boat until, while asleep, I was broken into, wallet, IDs, credit cards and about $800 cash. I had to drive, w/o a license, to the airport and travel on my passport.
I came back with a 12ga Mossberg 8 shot pump shotgun.
I told everyone I was very pissed and had a shotgun on board.
Told the dock master too. Everyone around the marina knew I was robbed and now had a gun onboard. Told them all, the next time, the robbers would exit off the wet end of the boat.
Interestingly, I have never shot it, never loaded it.
I guess I should buy some rubber bullet shells for it.
Slugs, and rubber bullets should do the trick without too much damage to the boat.

When we had the larger boat we had 5 fire extinguishers on board, a first aid kit, AED , Epipens and maybe or maybe not a shotgun.
None of these items would be onboard unless we had the proper training in how to use them.

 

[Zoar]

Wow, so much anti-New York sentiment here and so much fear mongering.


I think I need to take a break from this forum.

 

[Zoar]

I have tried to stay out of this gun discussion. But no longer can hold back.

As a USMC veteran who shot expert and as a gun owner gun collector I am ever astonished at all the arguments advocating for "needing" a gun for self defense. And, the argument for "the need" is without a doubt intensifying.

I side with those who suggest intelligent alternatives or who sight the fact that the need is blown way out of proportion.

Believe it our not I took my boat on the waterway right through New York City and we were not attacked or mugged; no one even shot at us. I Know: Amazing, right?!!

I have traveled the world many times and have spent time in a vast array of cultures. What I see in the US is a culture of fear (and yes it is growing) where the solution for this fear is the advocacy of using guns for shooting other Americans. This fear and recommended solution pervades everything. And while the argument may be about "the" solution for "the fear" is advocating the use of guns to shoot other humans specifically on boats the net result is all of these cases or situations where guns are advocated to shoot other humans serves to create a culture where guns to shoot others IS a pervasive and accepted argument virtually universally within the culture. Net result---even more shootings, then that causes more fear and that pushes the argument for more guns for shooting other people, and that results in more actual shootings. It is a cycle of madness and more fear and more gun violence.

In cultures where guns are NOT so advocated for shooting other people (out off defense or whatever argument seems to justify getting and using guns to shoot other people) they have far LESS shootings of other people.

 

[OldDan1943]

So how would you handle what happened to me?

 

[smitty477]

I have tried to stay out of this gun discussion. But no longer can hold back.

As a USMC veteran who shot expert and as a gun owner gun collector I am ever astonished at all the arguments advocating for "needing" a gun for self defense. And, the argument for "the need" is without a doubt intensifying.

I side with those who suggest intelligent alternatives or who sight the fact that the need is blown way out of proportion.

Believe it our not I took my boat on the waterway right through New York City and we were not attacked or mugged; no one even shot at us. I Know: Amazing, right?!!

I have traveled the world many times and have spent time in a vast array of cultures. What I see in the US is a culture of fear (and yes it is growing) where the solution for this fear is the advocacy of using guns for shooting other Americans. This fear and recommended solution pervades everything. And while the argument may be about "the" solution for "the fear" is advocating the use of guns to shoot other humans specifically on boats the net result is all of these cases or situations where guns are advocated to shoot other humans serves to create a culture where guns to shoot others IS a pervasive and accepted argument virtually universally within the culture. Net result---even more shootings, then that causes more fear and that pushes the argument for more guns for shooting other people, and that results in more actual shootings. It is a cycle of madness and more fear and more gun violence.

In cultures where guns are NOT so advocated for shooting other people (out off defense or whatever argument seems to justify getting and using guns to shoot other people) they have far LESS shootings of other people.

Similalry we have traveled through NY and the Harlem river many dozens of times over the years - even in those cases we never used the first aid kit, did not charge the , never took out the fire extinguishers, didn't need the epipens.
We would still choose to travel with all of them.

"In cultures where guns are NOT so advocated for shooting other people (out off defense or whatever argument seems to justify getting and using guns to shoot other people) they have far LESS shootings of other people."
Please post a couple of links for this data.

 

[OldDan1943]

I shall observe and keep my big fat fingers 'at ease'.

 

[Hippocampus]

Either a home brew or store bought security system. For very short money a few pressure pads, motion detectors (if necessary) with sirens and lights.
Btw- they do work. LEOs, C&I and other hassles disappear. Just set it up right so birds and other critters don’t set it off and you’re good to go Dan.

 

[Fletcher500]

Zoar post #75 generally summarizes how I feel about the subject.

Personally, I don’t think the risk factors of having a fire arm in our home or boat are worth it. But, I don’t have a problem with people having them who know what they are doing. The cat is out of the bag, and it’s not going back in.

What I do find interesting about Americans in particular and our gun culture is the tough guy talk, and “what I am going to do if someone even steps on my boat” mentality which I have read on previous TF strings. I have found the big boasters, are actually cowards in many respects and talk a big game in order to cover their short comings and fears.

 

[SoWhat]

I do not see any need to carry a firearm. Pepper gel works.
Some states support Castle Doctrine, other states you have a duty to retreat.
Shooting someone who is attempting to steal property may well result in manslaughter charges. Tens of thousands in legal fees with a high risk of conviction to protect a few hundred dollars in a wallet? They can have it.

 

[PPandE]

Wow, so much anti-New York sentiment here and so much fear mongering.


I think I need to take a break from this forum.

Could just take a break from this thread. The rest of the forum is pretty good. I figure it’s nobody’s business how I plan to defend my home. Surprise makes any defense more effective.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But there is no way that I would ever rule out transiting through NY, there are just to many nice spots on the Great Lakes and Canada to see!

Jim

I agree!

 

[sdowney717]

I have tried to stay out of this gun discussion. But no longer can hold back.

As a USMC veteran who shot expert and as a gun owner gun collector I am ever astonished at all the arguments advocating for "needing" a gun for self defense. And, the argument for "the need" is without a doubt intensifying.

I side with those who suggest intelligent alternatives or who sight the fact that the need is blown way out of proportion.

Believe it our not I took my boat on the waterway right through New York City and we were not attacked or mugged; no one even shot at us. I Know: Amazing, right?!!

I have traveled the world many times and have spent time in a vast array of cultures. What I see in the US is a culture of fear (and yes it is growing) where the solution for this fear is the advocacy of using guns for shooting other Americans. This fear and recommended solution pervades everything. And while the argument may be about "the" solution for "the fear" is advocating the use of guns to shoot other humans specifically on boats the net result is all of these cases or situations where guns are advocated to shoot other humans serves to create a culture where guns to shoot others IS a pervasive and accepted argument virtually universally within the culture. Net result---even more shootings, then that causes more fear and that pushes the argument for more guns for shooting other people, and that results in more actual shootings. It is a cycle of madness and more fear and more gun violence.

In cultures where guns are NOT so advocated for shooting other people (out off defense or whatever argument seems to justify getting and using guns to shoot other people) they have far LESS shootings of other people.

Then they use knives.

 

[wkearney99]

Then they use knives.

ignored the whole point of the comment there, eh?

 

[Drummer48]

New Jersey has stricter gun laws. Be careful around NJ

 

[Capt Ray]

Here's a solution...

A short shotgun in 20ga would be good boat defense weapon that could be handled by a woman. How about one of these, they are Canada Legal and come in 2 3/4” and 3” chambers and 12 and 20 ga. A blast of 20 ga birdshot will discourage anyone and will probably not penetrate the topsides and endanger anyone else in the marina, unlike a 9mm or .45. Plus the sound of a shell being racked into the chamber has a deterrent effect of its own, often that is enough.

I think I'll search online for a .WAV file of a pump action shotgun, and program it into my boat's sound system with a special button to launch it. If we get an unwanted visitor, the sound may be enough to get them going! LOL

BTW, the new low light capable Wyze CAM v3 gives an amazing view of what is going on outside one's boat at night when you are tucked inside.

Mainer who sold all his guns when he moved to Long Island NY.

Just to add to everyone else's comments, the NY City restrictions on handguns are incredibly strict (even for people with permits), and currently escalated to the US Supreme Court as possibly being too strict.

 

[john-o]

Carrying a firearm, any firearm, needs some basic reasoning, and some tough sole searching.
Such as...
- where are you planning to cruise where a firearm adds peace of mind.
- is the owner whipping himself/herself into a lather by reacting to media.
- Ok, the owner of a firearm uses it. Now what.
- if an owner has a plan of action, that plan better be at/near/ready and
able to get to and use said firearm. A risky and wishful thinking at best.
- An owner is asked .. "Do you have firearms on board? Now what?
- Suppose you have a fire on board, plus ammunition. Now What?
- Checking with a marina, allowing firearms? I personally haven't, but I'm
thinking there's a first time for everything.
- Suppose the boat is broken into and guess what is stolen. Now what?

I'm just as concerned as the next guy to protect my family and what's mine.
On the other hand, I'd weight the risks, actual or potential, concerning
carrying firearms... any firearm, on a vessel.
Just saying.

 

[Inbreaker]

I'm following this discussion from the other side of the world.
A long time ago I did 30,000+ nm, double handed, in the South Pacific and South East Asia. The only time we felt a need for or ever carried a gun was in the Kimberley region of Australia. There the issue was saltwater crocodiles. You'd feel a tad exposed going ashore in a rubber boat.
Now I have a boat on Vancouver Island, that I hope I will eventually be allowed to use, post covid. It occurred to me that if I can ever get up there, I would like to see the San Juans and SE Alaska again.
Reading many of these posts however, I am getting the strong sense that I should not cross into US waters unless I am armed and prepared to kill someone or something. If I take the boat across the line, I should be prepared to defend myself with deadly force-Have I got that right?
Have things changed that much in a couple of decades?
Who or what is it that I must be prepared to kill? The salt water crocodile has made a huge comeback since they banned hunting them, but they haven't made it to Roche Harbour, have they?

 

[Andy G]

Inbreaker;1004654]The only time we felt a need for or ever carried a gun was in the Kimberley region of Australia. There the issue was saltwater crocodiles. You'd feel a tad exposed going ashore in a rubber boat.[/B]


I'm sitting in Margaret River, Western Australia(wine region south of Perth) about to venture up into croc territory for 6 weeks. Decided not to take a shotgun, just bought some very fast joggers.

IMHO, Zoar's post is well thought out and well put. His conclusions seem to be based more on lived experience than ideology, always a good start.