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Old 05-02-2021, 03:10 PM   #1
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Cruising boat systems vs RV systems

I owned cruising boats for about 25 years and am now transitioning to RVs, a 25' Class A motorhome specifically. Boats and RVs have similar systems, but the RV systems are often designed for glitz and lack the functionality of boat systems.

Some of the system differences:

Plumbing wise they are very similar. Boats allow grey water to be dumped but RV are not allowed to do so, so there is a separate grey water tank. Both are gravity dumped at a sewer dump station whereas a boat has to be pumped out or use an Electrosan or similar. RVs do not have macerator pumps which are used on boats when beyond the three mile limit (and sometimes used inside as well ).

RVs until recently have used propane absorption fridges but boats usually don't because they need to be level to work properly. But I have seen some absorption fridges on large trawlers that don't seem to have a problem with them.

Recently RVs have been moving to the same DC compressor fridges that we have used on boats for decades. There is a lot of angst among RV owners about how to deal with these new DC loads.

DC electrics for the two are very similar. For some reason RVs have used strange battery isolation devices called BIRDs or BIMs whereas we in the boating community use ACR or Combiners to isolate our starting battery from our house battery. ACR or combiners work much better IMO than the RV devices. RVs almost never have high output alternators like Balmars.

There is a recent trend towards touch screen displays which control everything: lights, A/C, furnace, awnings you name it. I find them infuriating as there is no simple on/off switch near the device. They are all switched from a common power module controlled by a touch screen display. To me it is all about glitz as opposed to functionality.

Solar which has become in vogue on RVs to deal with the DC fridge loads is exactly the same for both. But if you are a dry camper like me who camps in shady sites, solar doesn't do much good unlike a boat which is always open to the unobscured sky.

My MH has an absorption fridge and I have always dry camped. I use roughly 35 amp hours daily for lights, water pump, device charging, operating the fridge and water heater controls and any fans. If I had a compressor fridge this would go up to about 100 amp hours for a 6 cu ft fridge.

The alternating current (AC) systems are very similar. RVs often use automatic transfer switches and automatic generator start systems which are somewhat rare on boats. They also have load shedding devices which are only found on our big cruising boats.

I mistakenly thought that RV systems would be simpler to maintain. Heck you are on land where stuff is easy to get to. Not so. RV wiring is often buried where it is impossible to get to or at best by crawling underneath.

So this has been sort of a rant about RV systems as opposed to boats which are usually simpler and easier to maintain. Thanks for listening.

David
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Old 05-02-2021, 03:19 PM   #2
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RV systems have often struck me as a cheap wannabe of some boat systems.
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Old 05-02-2021, 03:48 PM   #3
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Good reading. Just bought a land yacht setup: Ford f450 diesel dually and Northern Lite camper which I intend to boondock with...just like on the hook in the boat. Has 400 watts of solar and shorepower but i want to charge the camper's batteries with the truck's 2 alternators which total 400 amps. This can be done with a DC-DC battery charger from the truck's battery to the camper's, or with an isolator which Victron and others make. Do you have any experience with either of these charging methods?
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Old 05-02-2021, 04:34 PM   #4
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RV systems have often struck me as a cheap wannabe of some boat systems.
IMO they are closer to comparable if you compare apples & apples... similar size, quality level & price range. There are some basic differences in configuration as David points out.
Maintenance and/or modification can be a challenge on both.
Biggest difference is when you get to the larger sizes as MHs limited to the 8'6" "beam" and about 45' L where boats aren't really limited on either. Slide outs obviously help overcome the beam limitation.
Some of the bath + 1/2 MHs are even installing VacUFlush systems which seems overly complicated vs a conventional gravity head for MHs.
I have to say I wish by boat black tank had a spray rinse!
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Old 05-02-2021, 04:46 PM   #5
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Good reading. Just bought a land yacht setup: Ford f450 diesel dually and Northern Lite camper which I intend to boondock with...just like on the hook in the boat. Has 400 watts of solar and shorepower but i want to charge the camper's batteries with the truck's 2 alternators which total 400 amps. This can be done with a DC-DC battery charger from the truck's battery to the camper's, or with an isolator which Victron and others make. Do you have any experience with either of these charging methods?
What kind of batteries and what size. If lithium they can put too much of a load on the chassis alternator and that is what a DC to DC charger is for, to limit the load and change the voltage to match what the battery needs.

Even FLA or AGM batteries won't charge very fast with a fixed voltage alternator. You won't get much amperage unless the batteries are at a low SOC. The DC to DC charger can solve that too.

Not sure you need any kind of isolator with a DC to DC charger installed with an ignition signal which won't turn it on unless the engine is running and presumably the chassis alternator is putting out. You don't need to worry about the chassis battery discharging the house battery because a DC to DC charger is one way, ie no current can flow from the house to the chassis battery.

Check out Sterling, Victron, Renogy and Redarc. Some like the Redarc and the Renogy (I think) can double as solar controllers. With your two alternators of 400 amps capacity I bet you can put out a lot of amps into a pair of lithium batteries.

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Old 05-02-2021, 04:51 PM   #6
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RV systems have often struck me as a cheap wannabe of some boat systems.
Yes RVs tend to have cheap components and often cheap installation. For example there are no RV converters (battery chargers) that can be set for AGM, Gel, etc. They only have one set of charging parameters. Also as noted in the posting they use weird battery isolators which are no where as good as a Blue Seas ACR.

Installation is also cheap. The plumbing to my water pump was never tied down. It was all laying below the aft bed hanging there loose and RVs see much more driving bumps that can shake it apart than boats.

But they do have glitz, like the all in one touch screen display that turns on everything which saves some switches and wire and seems slick but isn't. Or the ATS or AGS systems that save you a few steps to flip a switch.

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Old 05-02-2021, 06:02 PM   #7
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I have a 5th wheel Fiberglass RV being built later this year ( 2 year waiting list). Personally, I didn't want a stick built trailer. It seems to have pretty much the same systems as boats with a couple of exceptions. 3 way fridge,120/propane/12 volt. propane/120 furnace for boondocking. I didn't choose the expensive Lithium Ion battery pack option ($4100 k with controller and solar) Because I don't plan on boondocking enough to warrant that cost. I did order solar panel with controller and a port to add a suitcase solar panel too.... My family and friends think I have lost my mind. I have never been camping a day in my life! They all expect boats as I have always had them.. We will see how it goes. I will be towing it with F150 ecoboost..
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Old 05-02-2021, 06:40 PM   #8
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Yes RVs tend to have cheap components and often cheap installation. For example there are no RV converters (battery chargers) that can be set for AGM, Gel, etc. They only have one set of charging parameters. Also as noted in the posting they use weird battery isolators which are no where as good as a Blue Seas ACR.

Installation is also cheap. The plumbing to my water pump was never tied down. It was all laying below the aft bed hanging there loose and RVs see much more driving bumps that can shake it apart than boats.

But they do have glitz, like the all in one touch screen display that turns on everything which saves some switches and wire and seems slick but isn't. Or the ATS or AGS systems that save you a few steps to flip a switch.

David



I seems like there are a lot of boats that are cheap and glitzy too, though, aren't there? I think they just tend not to be trawlers.


Back to your original post, what is "dry camping"? And how do these BIRDs and BIMs work?
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Old 05-02-2021, 06:54 PM   #9
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Back to your original post, what is "dry camping"? And how do these BIRDs and BIMs work?
Dry camping is camping in a public campground, public lands where dispersed camping is allowed or in Walmart or Cracker Barrel parking lots all without any hookups. Sometimes called Boondocking. Each term has its own subtle differences depending on who uses it.

For an understanding of BIRDs and BIMs, go to the Thor or Winnie sites (two of the biggest) and spend a few hours searching and reading about them.

In summary they have strange restrictions on connecting the two battery systems whereas ACR or Combiners connect when the voltage on one of the batteries is at 13.0 or greater. Simple as that.

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Old 05-02-2021, 06:55 PM   #10
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I seems like there are a lot of boats that are cheap and glitzy too, though, aren't there? I think they just tend not to be trawlers.


Back to your original post, what is "dry camping"? And how do these BIRDs and BIMs work?
Not sure what BIRDS and BIMS are but "dry campin" is any site that doesn't have hookups. Water/power pole/ black tank hookup. Dry camping can be in a National park or other.. Basically in boat speak "at anchor" as opposed to in a marina
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Old 05-02-2021, 08:03 PM   #11
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Thanks for the "dry camping" definition. As you can tell, I'm not an RVer. At least not yet.....
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Old 05-02-2021, 08:16 PM   #12
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Thanks for the "dry camping" definition. As you can tell, I'm not an RVer. At least not yet.....
I had no interest at all in anything-RV until Covid arrived. The Canadian border being closed got me thinking of alternative adventures. Now I'm looking at being in Arizona through the worst of the winter, Alaska in the summer with the boat when normalcy returns. Times change.
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:28 PM   #13
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Yes RVs tend to have cheap components and often cheap installation. For example there are no RV converters (battery chargers) that can be set for AGM, Gel, etc. They only have one set of charging parameters. Also as noted in the posting they use weird battery isolators which are no where as good as a Blue Seas ACR.

Installation is also cheap. The plumbing to my water pump was never tied down. It was all laying below the aft bed hanging there loose and RVs see much more driving bumps that can shake it apart than boats.

But they do have glitz, like the all in one touch screen display that turns on everything which saves some switches and wire and seems slick but isn't. Or the ATS or AGS systems that save you a few steps to flip a switch.

David
One has to be careful to just compare boat and rv,s. I have both a boat and a motorhome and my rv may have a small edge on the boat.
While both have inverters and relay isolation systems all the wiring is numbered with diagrams where the boat is not. I have load shedding on the rv but not on boat. Both have macerators. both have 110 volt fridge. Boat has 800 amps of dc rv has 1400.
I find owning both is simpler since there is small learning curve. Main difference is boat uses nmea2000 and motorhome uses the rvc standard so learning the 2 interfaces is a hassle.
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:35 PM   #14
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David

I felt your pain when I bought my first RV 10 years ago. I thought all my years trying to learn the boat systems would shorten the learning curve in the RV. WRONG
Though to Don's point, My boat and RV are as close to apples to apples as I could get. Both 44ft long, both 40000 lb. both 400 hp.
Similarities end there.
David, all controls are through touch panels, though the iPad controls were only on the very high end stuff in 2007 when my Motorhome was new. Mine has Techma electric heads. I would put them in Retreat if I could afford them.
Blue Seas has the RV market for battery combiners.
My fridge is a Maytag apartment size, so not quite as deep as full size, but still huge when compared with the absorption AC/DC/Propane models. As a consequence of the AC fridge, I carry 8 GC FLA batteries instead of the 4 that are standard if an absorption fridge is supplied.
I learned on an older 38' Motorhome, but your rant is fully justified.

The missing element is the sea. Due to Covid we have sold our RV lot in California and the Motorhome sits unused. We will keep trawlering.
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Old 05-02-2021, 11:27 PM   #15
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I’m following this w interest as we have a class C MH (21’).

Haven’t gone out w it yet but have spent some time working it.
We have an overhead rainwater leak and the RV place says they don’t caulk it. They order and replace a big rubber gasket.

I’d like to do it myself but I’m afraid of falling off the roof. That’s made of rubber also I’m told. Feels strange to walk on.
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Old 05-03-2021, 09:48 AM   #16
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David, I agree that RV systems are a pain in the butt having owned a travel trailer since September. And they are not necessarily cheaper either as there are so many accessories required after purchase. And that's even with us taking all of our boat stuff with us!
By the way, we'll be in CT for the entire month of June at a campground in Bantam Cozy Hills). If you're in CT then perhaps we can get together one evening.
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Old 05-03-2021, 12:07 PM   #17
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I’m following this w interest as we have a class C MH (21’).

Haven’t gone out w it yet but have spent some time working it.
We have an overhead rainwater leak and the RV place says they don’t caulk it. They order and replace a big rubber gasket.

I’d like to do it myself but I’m afraid of falling off the roof. That’s made of rubber also I’m told. Feels strange to walk on.
All of the RV's I've owned have rubber roofs. Caulking it to stop a leak won't work, it won't stick and things move around so it won't stay put. If you want to fix it yourself, Eternabond is the best rubber roof repair system I know of, I've used it for long term leak repair on multiple RVs with great success. It's a tape with webbing in it. You stick it on, and then paint it with a UV protecting paint.

https://www.eternabond.com/
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Old 05-03-2021, 12:40 PM   #18
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I've been a little surprised not to see mention of eternabond for boat applications in my time looking here.....
There's actually a few types....they also have one that has a film top surface so no "painting" required....and a double stick version. I've used the web type you mentioned and the double stick version...both with very good result.

My RV is a 2013 model Class C. Don't have any of the more modern touch screen shenanigans mentioned. I have a 2-way fridge and a 2-way water heater (LP and AC), and no inverter systems. In my experience, RV systems are generally very simple. With teh exception of the residential fridges that have come into vogue, all the appliances used are the same across the board pretty much, and are generally fairly good.
Quality of design, quality of construction, following any sort of code or standards, and general attention to detail are all basically non-existent though. It's really quite pathetic in my opinion.... and from what I can tell it's that way across pretty much all brands and models till you get to the ultra high end stuff.
I've added solar, have had to do major repairs and modifications, and have pretty much had to touch every system in the rig at one point or another.... every single drawer slide in the rig, for example, has been replaced or at least adjusted at some point...they had a habit of using one screw where at least three would just do....

My wife asked me once if I enjoyed working on the thing....since a lot of these projects have been done while actively RVing in campgrounds, etc... I had to admit that I kind of do...it's part of the hobby....but at the same time it has been very frustrating because they did such a truly horrible job building it.
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Old 05-03-2021, 02:21 PM   #19
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I've been a little surprised not to see mention of eternabond for boat applications in my time looking here.....
There's actually a few types....they also have one that has a film top surface so no "painting" required....and a double stick version. I've used the web type you mentioned and the double stick version...both with very good result.

My RV is a 2013 model Class C. Don't have any of the more modern touch screen shenanigans mentioned. I have a 2-way fridge and a 2-way water heater (LP and AC), and no inverter systems. In my experience, RV systems are generally very simple. With teh exception of the residential fridges that have come into vogue, all the appliances used are the same across the board pretty much, and are generally fairly good.
Quality of design, quality of construction, following any sort of code or standards, and general attention to detail are all basically non-existent though. It's really quite pathetic in my opinion.... and from what I can tell it's that way across pretty much all brands and models till you get to the ultra high end stuff.
I've added solar, have had to do major repairs and modifications, and have pretty much had to touch every system in the rig at one point or another.... every single drawer slide in the rig, for example, has been replaced or at least adjusted at some point...they had a habit of using one screw where at least three would just do....

My wife asked me once if I enjoyed working on the thing....since a lot of these projects have been done while actively RVing in campgrounds, etc... I had to admit that I kind of do...it's part of the hobby....but at the same time it has been very frustrating because they did such a truly horrible job building it.
Get an empty Transit or Promaster van and DIY it. Then you'll know who to complain to about the construction quality.
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Old 05-03-2021, 03:37 PM   #20
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We're going the other direction, selling our Class A Diesel Pusher, and bought a boat . . . Of course, we've had both RV's and boats on and off for the last 45 years or so! We love our Dutch Star, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to continue to own both. Best of luck in your RV travels, the site IRV2.com is the best forum I've found for RV stuff. Friendly and knowledgeable people for the most part, although there are a few that try my patience, pretty much like any on-line forum.
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