Cruise to Hawaii and Possibly Tahiti

[Benthic2]

Sashimi....you don't think you bear any responsibility for the criticism/sarcasm/hostility you got ?

It was your lack of experience combined with strong personal opinions that created those negative responses. You came right out and said that experience was over rated, weather concerns are over stated etc. When you come to a forum to ask people about their experience, and then tell them their opinion is wrong and devalue their experience, you will get pushback.

If you really were a deck officer, you probably should have brought that up sometime in the first 200 posts. It might have given you a little more credibility. Bringing it up now, just raises more doubts.

If I was hitching a ride to Hawaii and could choose between an inexperienced, Rhodes Scholar member of Mensa, or a regular joe who's done it a 10 times...I'm going with joe.

Here's some advice that you won't take, because you have enough aptitude that you don't need any advice. You can figure anything out on your own. Start over. Get a new screen name. Lurk for a while. Next time, ask about sailing to Bermuda, or Grenada. Have a few things nailed down first, like power vs sail...a budget...a time frame. Or if you don't know those yet..start with those questions. Its hard to take some one seriously and give appropriate advice when you don't know where they are on the skill/experience/common sense spectrum. What kind of boat you need depends a lot on who you are. I would need a much more capable boat than Dennis Connor or Earnest Shackleton for example.

You might want to spend 15 minutes and read the following. You can dismiss the mistakes the sailors made, but the "review" section is pretty informative

EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Lessons Learned: Sailing to Hawaii...The First Attempt by Arnold Rowe

And lastly....go look up "humility" in the dictionary. Good luck.

 

[Larry M]

Greg: Thanks for posting the link. Pretty humbling.

 

[psneeld]

funny thing you learn about this site and its active posters for the most part.... most are pretty accomplished at leat at one thing, thats why they are here....

some more at life in general, some more marine related.....

takes a bit to really see who is who....but few should be ignored in general.....

 

[BruceK]

....I've concluded that trawlers just aren't the right type of vessel for what I want to do. I want to travel long distances, - passages - and as has been opined, a motorsailer, or sailing cat will go farther, and possibly faster than a trawler, cost less to acquire, "feed" and maintain....

Assisted by TF member advice, the OP has rejected trawler style vessels. Ending the need for TF membership.Farewell.
The thread has no further purpose, can it be closed forthwith.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Assisted by TF member advice, the OP has rejected trawler style vessels. Ending the need for TF membership.Farewell.
The thread has no further purpose, can it be closed forthwith.

LOL
Positive point, not like anchors, it took only a thread to find out!
So now let's go back to anchors

L

 

[Fletcher500]

There was a time I was a deck officer on a steam vessel. Just for professional purposes, I went down to the engine room while underway. While there, the condenser started losing vacuum. I immediately knew to open the valve admitting steam into the circ-pump turbine. (we were operating on scoop-injection at the time). I hade ZERO experience in that or any other steam engine room, but instantly knew what to do because I have aptitude and a basic knowledge of how the systems worked.

Sushi,

I still think you may be toying with us, but I will play along.

I have not been in the engine room of a steam ship for 30 years, so someone can correct me if I am wrong in my second statement below (I know the first one is accurate). Two observations:

First, If you walked in to the ER of a large ship "with zero experience" and started messing with valves you would have had your head handed to you on a platter by the Chief, or one of the other engineers on watch.

Second, and as I noted its been along time, but I can not remember ever doing this "I immediately knew to open the valve admitting steam into the circ-pump turbine."

 

[Sashimi]

I can appreciate his thoughts on can do spirit over experience....

But in reality, does the can do copilot have authority over the experienced, can do captain?

Does the can do first mate with 2 pacific crossings have authority over the can do captain with 130?

When my copilot with 2 SAR cases in 2 years of flying asked me if we were going to kepp going when my over 200 and 20 years of flying told me piece of cake...of course we finished the rescue.

To think "can do" ALWAYS trumps experience reminds me of debating a college student.

Yet another mischaracterization. I never said ANYTHING ALWAYS TRUMPS ANYTHING, but I have come across so many people with so much experience that can only do what they direct experience at, and can't figure anything else out.

 

[Sashimi]

Sushi,

I still think you may be toying with us, but I will play along.

I have not been in the engine room of a steam ship for 30 years, so someone can correct me if I am wrong in my second statement below (I know the first one is accurate). Two observations:

First, If you walked in to the ER of a large ship "with zero experience" and started messing with valves you would have had your head handed to you on a platter by the Chief, or one of the other engineers on watch.

Second, and as I noted its been along time, but I can not remember ever doing this "I immediately knew to open the valve admitting steam into the circ-pump turbine."

Yet another mis-characterization. I never said I "DID" anything. I said I knew what to do and the engineer on watch agreed and somebody turned by valve, although it wasn't necessary for me to tell him, we both knew it. The point is I knew it with zero experience, but supported by knowledge and aptitude.

Yes, well let me splain it to you.

Steam comes out of the turbine and dumps down into the condenser. A large vessel with lots of tubes running through it through which sea-water flows. the steam, upon hitting the tubes, condenses to water, which is called condensate. The condenser normally operates at a vacuum, as all the air has been removed. Once the condensate is pumped out if goes to another vessel that removed any dissolved gases, at which point it become "feed" water, which is then pumped back into the boiler. Rinse and repeat.

Under normal steaming conditions, with reasonabley cool sea-water, the forward motion vessel, operating through a recessed area called a "scoop" in the bottom of the hull pushes sea water through the tubes. At slower speeds, and/or warmer seat temps, a steam-driven pumps called a circ(ulation) pump assists. If you loose vacuum in the condenser, it necessary to run water faster through the tubes, and if the circ pump is off (to save steam, and hence fuel), it has to be spun up by opening a valve to admit steam into the single-stage turbine attached thereto. We started losing vacuum as we passed into an area of warmer water.

I imagine you are a bit embarrassed by now.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Yet another mischaracterization. I never said ANYTHING TRUMPS ANYTHING, but I have come across so many people with so much experience that can only do what they direct experience at, and can't figure anything else out.

I still try to figure out what value all this mutual bashing can provide to anybody, and believe me I have much experience lol

L

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: Steam = Hot Air.

 

[Sashimi]

LOL
Positive point, not like anchors, it took only a thread to find out!
So now let's go back to anchors

L

??

 

[Sashimi]

Sashimi....you don't think you bear any responsibility for the criticism/sarcasm/hostility you got ?

It was your lack of experience combined with strong personal opinions that created those negative responses. You came right out and said that experience was over rated, weather concerns are over stated etc. When you come to a forum to ask people about their experience, and then tell them their opinion is wrong and devalue their experience, you will get pushback.

If you really were a deck officer, you probably should have brought that up sometime in the first 200 posts. It might have given you a little more credibility. Bringing it up now, just raises more doubts.

If I was hitching a ride to Hawaii and could choose between an inexperienced, Rhodes Scholar member of Mensa, or a regular joe who's done it a 10 times...I'm going with joe.

Here's some advice that you won't take, because you have enough aptitude that you don't need any advice. You can figure anything out on your own. Start over. Get a new screen name. Lurk for a while. Next time, ask about sailing to Bermuda, or Grenada. Have a few things nailed down first, like power vs sail...a budget...a time frame. Or if you don't know those yet..start with those questions. Its hard to take some one seriously and give appropriate advice when you don't know where they are on the skill/experience/common sense spectrum. What kind of boat you need depends a lot on who you are. I would need a much more capable boat than Dennis Connor or Earnest Shackleton for example.

You might want to spend 15 minutes and read the following. You can dismiss the mistakes the sailors made, but the "review" section is pretty informative

EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Lessons Learned: Sailing to Hawaii...The First Attempt by Arnold Rowe

And lastly....go look up "humility" in the dictionary. Good luck.

I asked for advice on boats and got, right out of the box, questions about why and suggesting I should just take a plane. How would you react?


I said I have made the passage twice, which is true, on powered vessesl, also true, but I didn't want to make it about me, but the vessel, but the high-horsers, smelling blood in the water, came riding it and put me "in-my-place". After that, well pushback where due, respect where due.

 

[clynn]

This thread is great. I wasted like 30 minutes at work reading this awesomeness! Please tell us more about high horses and "loads of smarm".

 

[Sashimi]

Sashimi....you don't think you bear any responsibility for the criticism/sarcasm/hostility you got ?

It was your lack of experience combined with strong personal opinions that created those negative responses. You came right out and said that experience was over rated, weather concerns are over stated etc. When you come to a forum to ask people about their experience, and then tell them their opinion is wrong and devalue their experience, you will get pushback.

If you really were a deck officer, you probably should have brought that up sometime in the first 200 posts. It might have given you a little more credibility. Bringing it up now, just raises more doubts.

If I was hitching a ride to Hawaii and could choose between an inexperienced, Rhodes Scholar member of Mensa, or a regular joe who's done it a 10 times...I'm going with joe.

Here's some advice that you won't take, because you have enough aptitude that you don't need any advice. You can figure anything out on your own. Start over. Get a new screen name. Lurk for a while. Next time, ask about sailing to Bermuda, or Grenada. Have a few things nailed down first, like power vs sail...a budget...a time frame. Or if you don't know those yet..start with those questions. Its hard to take some one seriously and give appropriate advice when you don't know where they are on the skill/experience/common sense spectrum. What kind of boat you need depends a lot on who you are. I would need a much more capable boat than Dennis Connor or Earnest Shackleton for example.

You might want to spend 15 minutes and read the following. You can dismiss the mistakes the sailors made, but the "review" section is pretty informative

EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Lessons Learned: Sailing to Hawaii...The First Attempt by Arnold Rowe

And lastly....go look up "humility" in the dictionary. Good luck.

I started with humility. go read Post 1, and got told I should just take a plane. That's how far humility got me! Go figure.

 

[diver dave]

Sushi,

I still think you may be toying with us, but I will play along.

I have not been in the engine room of a steam ship for 30 years, so someone can correct me if I am wrong in my second statement below (I know the first one is accurate). Two observations:

First, If you walked in to the ER of a large ship "with zero experience" and started messing with valves you would have had your head handed to you on a platter by the Chief, or one of the other engineers on watch.

Second, and as I noted its been along time, but I can not remember ever doing this "I immediately knew to open the valve admitting steam into the circ-pump turbine."

I was given the opportunity to tour a working steam engine room of a 660' tanker in port at Port Everglades ONE TIME. Now, I've had thermodynamics in engineering school and knew my way around enthalpy and entropy, and the steam cycles etc. at one point in my life. But, I can't imagine having enough where with all to start turning valves at first glance. I seem to recollect most of them were not even marked! Modern crew sizes are way down, but how did this all go down??
Anyway, raw fish man may have some charm going, and more power to him.
Entertainment aside, we have given reams of advice, I think our job is done here.

 

[Sashimi]

This thread is great. I wasted like 30 minutes at work reading this awesomeness! Please tell us more about high horses and "loads of smarm".

Anytime.

 

[Sashimi]

I was given the opportunity to tour a working steam engine room of a 660' tanker in port at Port Everglades ONE TIME. Now, I've had thermodynamics in engineering school and knew my way around enthalpy and entropy, and the steam cycles etc. at one point in my life. But, I can't imagine having enough where with all to start turning valves at first glance. I seem to recollect most of them were not even marked! Modern crew sizes are way down, but how did this all go down??
Anyway, raw fish man may have some charm going, and more power to him.
Entertainment aside, we have given reams of advice, I think our job is done here.

Just for the record, look for the condenser, you can't miss them for most of them are made of brass or bronze. there will be a pipe going into it leading aft from the bilges, look for a pump with a steam turbine in the area and it will be marked Circ Pump. You can't miss a steam turbine because It and the pipe leading to it will be heavily insulated and HOT.

 

[Sashimi]

Wifey B: Steam = Hot Air.

Incorrect. Steam is the gaseous state of ICE, which is the solid state of STEAM, which, when liquid, is called "WATER"!

 

[BandB]

Incorrect. Steam is the gaseous state of ICE, which is the sold state of STEAM, which, when liquid is called "WATER"!

Wifey B: Oh, I was confusing steam and you.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: What happens if you eat in August in February?

 

[Benthic2]

I asked for advice on boats and got, right out of the box, questions about why and suggesting I should just take a plane. How would you react?

I would either quietly ingore advice that I didn't think was appropriate, because this person has gone out of his way to answer a question I asked and for that, deserves a modicum of respect and appreciation....

OR.....I would consider that there was a misundestanding and I didn't provide enough information for this person to give me the answer I was looking for.


I said I have made the passage twice, which is true, on powered vessesl, also true, but I didn't want to make it about me, but the vessel, but the high-horsers, smelling blood in the water, came riding it and put me "in-my-place". After that, well pushback where due, respect where due.

It can't be just about the vessel. The vessel is not making the trip alone. You AND the vessel are making the voyage. As I tried to explain earlier, some people could do it in a kayak, and some might need 150 foot vessel with a ship's doctor and an engineer. If you had spent any time on this forum, you'd have realized the total lunacy of your first post. Anyone of the following could be ( and in fact have been ) entire threads on their own:

Single engine or multi engine

power or sail

minimum size for passagemaking

is a Mainship a passagemaker

what's a good way to carry extra fuel

Large engine run slow vs small engine run fast

Turbo or non-turbo

To an experienced boater, your entire post translates to: Please tell me everything I need to know about boating.

There's nothing wrong with not knowing various aspects of boating, or anything else for that matter. But to show your ignorance so plainly, and then so staunchly defend it, while simultaneously attacking the very people you asked for help is ludicrous.

I have a new piece of advice: Call MTV or E! network. There is a casting director that will gladly assemble a crew for you and probably even buy your boat for you. Seeing 3 people confined on a 40 foot boat with you for 3 weeks would be television ratings GOLD !!!! The danger of "Survivor"...the confinement of "Big Brother"...the stupidity of "Jersey Shore"....WOW !! with any luck there's be a little "Shark Tank" and "Lost" in there too !!

 

[JLD]

After taking all this in, I've concluded that trawlers just aren't the right type of vessel for what I want to do. I want to travel long distances, - passages - and as has been opined, a motorsailer, or sailing cat will go farther, and possibly faster than a trawler, cost less to acquire, "feed" and maintain. We'll get to Hawaii, then Tahiti, or, if we buy a boat in the Med, cross the Atlantic, though the big ditch and then Tahiti and surrounds.

The Hawaii crossing isn't one that I am interested in making, but if I was, I would probably pick a monohull over a cat.

If you are thinking about a cat, there is a current thread over on sailnet.com called "Bluewater cruising cat for 150K?"

Jim

 

[Sashimi]

Sashimi....you don't think you bear any responsibility for the criticism/sarcasm/hostility you got ?

It was your lack of experience combined with strong personal opinions that created those negative responses. You came right out and said that experience was over rated, weather concerns are over stated etc. When you come to a forum to ask people about their experience, and then tell them their opinion is wrong and devalue their experience, you will get pushback.

If you really were a deck officer, you probably should have brought that up sometime in the first 200 posts. It might have given you a little more credibility. Bringing it up now, just raises more doubts.


Edit: Yes, I read that article previously. BTW, I you have any doubts about my background, you are free to ask any question you want. Ask about Radar, or charts (but not maps), CPA CBDR, Lower limbs, deviation, navigator balls, anything you want. I won't cheat, i'll just answer and say I don't know if I don't. Ever had a vessel degaussed, I have. Ever seen someone de-loused (I have NOT)!!! Fire away.

If I was hitching a ride to Hawaii and could choose between an inexperienced, Rhodes Scholar member of Mensa, or a regular joe who's done it a 10 times...I'm going with joe.

Here's some advice that you won't take, because you have enough aptitude that you don't need any advice. You can figure anything out on your own. Start over. Get a new screen name. Lurk for a while. Next time, ask about sailing to Bermuda, or Grenada. Have a few things nailed down first, like power vs sail...a budget...a time frame. Or if you don't know those yet..start with those questions. Its hard to take some one seriously and give appropriate advice when you don't know where they are on the skill/experience/common sense spectrum. What kind of boat you need depends a lot on who you are. I would need a much more capable boat than Dennis Connor or Earnest Shackleton for example.

You might want to spend 15 minutes and read the following. You can dismiss the mistakes the sailors made, but the "review" section is pretty informative

EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Lessons Learned: Sailing to Hawaii...The First Attempt by Arnold Rowe

And lastly....go look up "humility" in the dictionary. Good luck.

I would also like to say, I do much appreciate the good advice on vessels and related topics I received, and there was a lot of good advice, including the one above, and again, thank you. I will read the item you've linked.
Conner, as I recalled was a racer, and Shackleton an explorer in Arctic waters. He got trapped in ice, and his vessel ultimately crushed and sank. I read a book about him several times nearly 50 years ago.

I think any reasonably competent mariner can make the voyage without problem. Lots do.

I heard a discussion by a guy who was moving a largish Sportfisher to Kona on its own bottom. Hit a whale but managed to keep the vessel afloat using an engine cooling pump as a large bilge pump. Disconnected the intake from the seacock, shut same, and fired up the engine which then sucked raw water from the bilge. Ran back to shore for quite some time that way. He had no experience doing that (who has), but used his aptitude and ingenuity to find a solution. He is a big-time marlin tourney fisherman.

 

[guy with a boat]

There's nothing wrong with not knowing various aspects of boating, or anything else for that matter. But to show your ignorance so plainly, and then so staunchly defend it, while simultaneously attacking the very people you asked for help is ludicrous.

Bingo.

 

[Sashimi]

The Hawaii crossing isn't one that I am interested in making, but if I was, I would probably pick a monohull over a cat.

If you are thinking about a cat, there is a current thread over on sailnet.com called "Bluewater cruising cat for 150K?"

Jim

Thanks.

Why a mono over a Cat. Is it related to load-carrying capacity?

If I go mono, I would try to opt for a full keel or variation thereof, like an Island Packet or a Norseman. What's your take on keel-stepped vs deck-stepped masts?

I'll read the article. Thanks again for the post.

 

[Sashimi]

It can't be just about the vessel. The vessel is not making the trip alone. You AND the vessel are making the voyage. As I tried to explain earlier, some people could do it in a kayak, and some might need 150 foot vessel with a ship's doctor and an engineer. If you had spent any time on this forum, you'd have realized the total lunacy of your first post. Anyone of the following could be ( and in fact have been ) entire threads on their own:

Single engine or multi engine

power or sail

minimum size for passagemaking

is a Mainship a passagemaker

what's a good way to carry extra fuel

Large engine run slow vs small engine run fast

Turbo or non-turbo

To an experienced boater, your entire post translates to: Please tell me everything I need to know about boating.

There's nothing wrong with not knowing various aspects of boating, or anything else for that matter. But to show your ignorance so plainly, and then so staunchly defend it, while simultaneously attacking the very people you asked for help is ludicrous.

I have a new piece of advice: Call MTV or E! network. There is a casting director that will gladly assemble a crew for you and probably even buy your boat for you. Seeing 3 people confined on a 40 foot boat with you for 3 weeks would be television ratings GOLD !!!! The danger of "Survivor"...the confinement of "Big Brother"...the stupidity of "Jersey Shore"....WOW !! with any luck there's be a little "Shark Tank" and "Lost" in there too !!

Any examples of such behavior? Can you find one.

I'll ignore your infantile advice at the bottom.

 

[Larry M]

Sorry folks.