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Old 02-13-2018, 01:53 PM   #201
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Maybe because, like that part-time beekeper and shy New Zealander said, "because it's there."
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:00 PM   #202
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Didn't GG use this forum as her stepping stone to the rich and famous
No rich and famous for GG. She made her journey north though and spent one winter on the boat. Then sold it and off to other things. In following her exploits, I've concluded that she'll always have a new idea she's contemplating while being active in another but won't stay with the same thing long.

One thing she was warned about but never heard was spending the winter on a boat, with a large family, in Boston.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:17 PM   #203
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Didn't GG use this forum as her stepping stone to the rich and famous
I think we were the side show or outlet looking for sympathy....

I thought she started first in Cruisers Forum.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:57 PM   #204
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With all due respect, experience may be "key", but aptitude is like being able to pick locks.

Just watched a video on two brothers who bought a 44' sailboat in Honolulu and sailed to Port Washington. A bit of rain, cloudy skies and near-windless conditions around the N. Pac. High, but nothing any reasonably intelligent person couldn't deal with.

This isn't a trip around Cape Horn!!!

After taking all this in, I've concluded that trawlers just aren't the right type of vessel for what I want to do. I want to travel long distances, - passages - and as has been opined, a motorsailer, or sailing cat will go farther, and possibly faster than a trawler, cost less to acquire, "feed" and maintain. We'll get to Hawaii, then Tahiti, or, if we buy a boat in the Med, cross the Atlantic, though the big ditch and then Tahiti and surrounds.

I'll gain experience as I go, but there is no doubt that I will make it - lots and lots of people do. I have a reasonable amount of sailing experience, understand the principles and safe practices and will practice in local waters first.

If you HAVE to ask "why", there is no point in asking "why" because you'll never understand. Some here get it, many don't. For them, green is good enough, but for me, blue will do!!!!

Fair winds, following seas, and to those who offered good advice on boat/engine choice, and boat-related advice such as stabilizers, my gratitude is yours. For those who felt they had to go into the weeds.... well we'll leave it at that.
Well good luck amigo! Yes, if I was gonna make ocean passages on a budget, a sailboat is the only way to go. And like you said, I would lean towards a motorsailor or a Cat. I am recently intrigued lately by sailing cats since the new ones have flybridges!!! I feel like I could have my cake and eat it too!!!
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:58 PM   #205
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Marin's been gone for years. That man was downright eristic at times and I miss him dearly.
Trust me....if you were a moderator you would not!!!!....:wh istling:
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:03 PM   #206
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Let me know when you leave.... I will notify USCG Airsta Barbers Point....
Thanks, you'll need them!!
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:09 PM   #207
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Well good luck amigo! Yes, if I was gonna make ocean passages on a budget, a sailboat is the only way to go. And like you said, I would lean towards a motorsailor or a Cat. I am recently intrigued lately by sailing cats since the new ones have flybridges!!! I feel like I could have my cake and eat it too!!!
I am not sure about them. They have to raise the boom to clear them which moves the center of pressure higher up the mast, all other factors being the same. Also, some say they can become a bathtub quickly if the right.... I mean wrong, wave hits.

I do, however, believe the jury is still out on them. With auto-pilot, time spent at the wheel is minimal. Don't even need the wheel to tack - just hit the tack button and around you go!!!! They may be good or excellent near-shore when you are hand-steering, or at least monitoring and avoiding a lot of traffic.


It all depends on the sort of sailing you want to do.


FWAFS
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:13 PM   #208
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I think we were the side show or outlet looking for sympathy....

I thought she started first in Cruisers Forum.
And she got more encouragement there or felt she did. They just said get behind the wheel and go do it while we tended to encourage training and use of a captain at first here.

I see Sashimi perhaps going there now that he's going sailing. There are those there who share his non-valuing of experience.
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:28 PM   #209
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And she got more encouragement there or felt she did. They just said get behind the wheel and go do it while we tended to encourage training and use of a captain at first here.

I see Sashimi perhaps going there now that he's going sailing. There are those there who share his non-valuing of experience.
The mischaractization just doesn't stop.

I didn't say I didn't value it, I said that aptitude is more important.

Here is an example of what I refer to.

There was a time I was a deck officer on a steam vessel. Just for professional purposes, I went down to the engine room while underway. While there, the condenser started losing vacuum. I immediately knew to open the valve admitting steam into the circ-pump turbine. (we were operating on scoop-injection at the time). I hade ZERO experience in that or any other steam engine room, but instantly knew what to do because I have aptitude and a basic knowledge of how the systems worked.

That is an example of what I refer to. It is not necessary to have experience in everything if you have the aptitude and understanding to come up with the right answer "on-the-fly".

Some can and some can't. Some have to write down every little detail, others just need a bare skeleton of facts and flesh out the rest with.....aptitude.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:32 PM   #210
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And she got more encouragement there or felt she did. They just said get behind the wheel and go do it while we tended to encourage training and use of a captain at first here.

I see Sashimi perhaps going there now that he's going sailing. There are those there who share his non-valuing of experience.
I can appreciate his thoughts on can do spirit over experience....

But in reality, does the can do copilot have authority over the experienced, can do captain?

Does the can do first mate with 2 pacific crossings have authority over the can do captain with 130?

When my copilot with 2 SAR cases in 2 years of flying asked me if we were going to kepp going when my over 200 and 20 years of flying told me piece of cake...of course we finished the rescue.

To think "can do" ALWAYS trumps experience reminds me of debating a college student.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:34 PM   #211
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Sashimi....you don't think you bear any responsibility for the criticism/sarcasm/hostility you got ?

It was your lack of experience combined with strong personal opinions that created those negative responses. You came right out and said that experience was over rated, weather concerns are over stated etc. When you come to a forum to ask people about their experience, and then tell them their opinion is wrong and devalue their experience, you will get pushback.

If you really were a deck officer, you probably should have brought that up sometime in the first 200 posts. It might have given you a little more credibility. Bringing it up now, just raises more doubts.

If I was hitching a ride to Hawaii and could choose between an inexperienced, Rhodes Scholar member of Mensa, or a regular joe who's done it a 10 times...I'm going with joe.

Here's some advice that you won't take, because you have enough aptitude that you don't need any advice. You can figure anything out on your own. Start over. Get a new screen name. Lurk for a while. Next time, ask about sailing to Bermuda, or Grenada. Have a few things nailed down first, like power vs sail...a budget...a time frame. Or if you don't know those yet..start with those questions. Its hard to take some one seriously and give appropriate advice when you don't know where they are on the skill/experience/common sense spectrum. What kind of boat you need depends a lot on who you are. I would need a much more capable boat than Dennis Connor or Earnest Shackleton for example.

You might want to spend 15 minutes and read the following. You can dismiss the mistakes the sailors made, but the "review" section is pretty informative

EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Lessons Learned: Sailing to Hawaii...The First Attempt by Arnold Rowe

And lastly....go look up "humility" in the dictionary. Good luck.
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:06 PM   #212
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Greg: Thanks for posting the link. Pretty humbling.
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:22 PM   #213
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funny thing you learn about this site and its active posters for the most part.... most are pretty accomplished at leat at one thing, thats why they are here....

some more at life in general, some more marine related.....

takes a bit to really see who is who....but few should be ignored in general.....
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:23 PM   #214
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....I've concluded that trawlers just aren't the right type of vessel for what I want to do. I want to travel long distances, - passages - and as has been opined, a motorsailer, or sailing cat will go farther, and possibly faster than a trawler, cost less to acquire, "feed" and maintain....
Assisted by TF member advice, the OP has rejected trawler style vessels. Ending the need for TF membership.Farewell.
The thread has no further purpose, can it be closed forthwith.
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:32 PM   #215
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Assisted by TF member advice, the OP has rejected trawler style vessels. Ending the need for TF membership.Farewell.
The thread has no further purpose, can it be closed forthwith.
LOL
Positive point, not like anchors, it took only a thread to find out!
So now let's go back to anchors

L
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:06 PM   #216
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There was a time I was a deck officer on a steam vessel. Just for professional purposes, I went down to the engine room while underway. While there, the condenser started losing vacuum. I immediately knew to open the valve admitting steam into the circ-pump turbine. (we were operating on scoop-injection at the time). I hade ZERO experience in that or any other steam engine room, but instantly knew what to do because I have aptitude and a basic knowledge of how the systems worked.
Sushi,

I still think you may be toying with us, but I will play along.

I have not been in the engine room of a steam ship for 30 years, so someone can correct me if I am wrong in my second statement below (I know the first one is accurate). Two observations:

First, If you walked in to the ER of a large ship "with zero experience" and started messing with valves you would have had your head handed to you on a platter by the Chief, or one of the other engineers on watch.

Second, and as I noted its been along time, but I can not remember ever doing this "I immediately knew to open the valve admitting steam into the circ-pump turbine."
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:10 PM   #217
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I can appreciate his thoughts on can do spirit over experience....

But in reality, does the can do copilot have authority over the experienced, can do captain?

Does the can do first mate with 2 pacific crossings have authority over the can do captain with 130?

When my copilot with 2 SAR cases in 2 years of flying asked me if we were going to kepp going when my over 200 and 20 years of flying told me piece of cake...of course we finished the rescue.

To think "can do" ALWAYS trumps experience reminds me of debating a college student.
Yet another mischaracterization. I never said ANYTHING ALWAYS TRUMPS ANYTHING, but I have come across so many people with so much experience that can only do what they direct experience at, and can't figure anything else out.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:21 PM   #218
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Sushi,

I still think you may be toying with us, but I will play along.

I have not been in the engine room of a steam ship for 30 years, so someone can correct me if I am wrong in my second statement below (I know the first one is accurate). Two observations:

First, If you walked in to the ER of a large ship "with zero experience" and started messing with valves you would have had your head handed to you on a platter by the Chief, or one of the other engineers on watch.

Second, and as I noted its been along time, but I can not remember ever doing this "I immediately knew to open the valve admitting steam into the circ-pump turbine."
Yet another mis-characterization. I never said I "DID" anything. I said I knew what to do and the engineer on watch agreed and somebody turned by valve, although it wasn't necessary for me to tell him, we both knew it. The point is I knew it with zero experience, but supported by knowledge and aptitude.

Yes, well let me splain it to you.

Steam comes out of the turbine and dumps down into the condenser. A large vessel with lots of tubes running through it through which sea-water flows. the steam, upon hitting the tubes, condenses to water, which is called condensate. The condenser normally operates at a vacuum, as all the air has been removed. Once the condensate is pumped out if goes to another vessel that removed any dissolved gases, at which point it become "feed" water, which is then pumped back into the boiler. Rinse and repeat.

Under normal steaming conditions, with reasonabley cool sea-water, the forward motion vessel, operating through a recessed area called a "scoop" in the bottom of the hull pushes sea water through the tubes. At slower speeds, and/or warmer seat temps, a steam-driven pumps called a circ(ulation) pump assists. If you loose vacuum in the condenser, it necessary to run water faster through the tubes, and if the circ pump is off (to save steam, and hence fuel), it has to be spun up by opening a valve to admit steam into the single-stage turbine attached thereto. We started losing vacuum as we passed into an area of warmer water.

I imagine you are a bit embarrassed by now.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:22 PM   #219
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Yet another mischaracterization. I never said ANYTHING TRUMPS ANYTHING, but I have come across so many people with so much experience that can only do what they direct experience at, and can't figure anything else out.
I still try to figure out what value all this mutual bashing can provide to anybody, and believe me I have much experience lol

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Old 02-13-2018, 06:22 PM   #220
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