Crossing the Columbia river bar

[markbarendt]

I did a free online zoom group seminar with a local captain that teaches getting over the bar kinda as a specialty. He also focusses generally on smaller faster boats, basically for people day fishing off the Oregon coast.

The gist of it, after sorting weather and sea condition concers (which he did very nicely), is to get on the backside of the wave, just behind the crest, and then power up doing whatever it takes to stay there.

At that point it became obvious that I was outside his intended audience.

"Good info for how to handle my dinghy but that won't work on my 7.9 knot hull speed trawler" I suggested.

He suggested the possibility of using a drogue, which seems a reasonable thought.

So I'm here for your thoughts...

 

[Lepke]

I've crossed the bar many times as a commercial fisherman and in a yacht. If you watch the weather and tides, it's no big deal. I don't think a drogue would be a good idea. After a wave passes, it slows you down and slows any increase in speed after that. Except for being closer together, the waves aren't much different than big swells at sea.
Most yachts have rudders that are too small. Especially high speed boats. Adding to the rudder will greatly add to your control. When I fished, a lot of boats were ex-navy 40' & 50' launches converted to fishing. Most had the rudder rebuilt to 3x it's original size.

 

[markbarendt]

Interesting thoughts Lepke, I doubt I’ll cross the bar enough to justify a big rudder modification.

I know lots of relatively slow boats cross it, sailboats et al, so not too worried, just want to take reasonable precautions.

 

[Comodave]

We didn’t go in over the bar, we were just transiting down the coast. We were 8 NM offshore and thought we were going to die. It was amazing how bad and how quickly it went bad. We were traveling downhill and didn’t see the breaking waves until we were in them. We slowly fought our way out to about 11 NM and it was a bit better. I would not have wanted to be going in over the bar at that time.

 

[markbarendt]

We didn’t go in over the bar, we were just transiting down the coast. We were 8 NM offshore and thought we were going to die. It was amazing how bad and how quickly it went bad. We were traveling downhill and didn’t see the breaking waves until we were in them. We slowly fought our way out to about 11 NM and it was a bit better. I would not have wanted to be going in over the bar at that time.

Details please, was swell different than forecast, period and size, ...

Do you think a drogue would have made your ride safer, more comfortable?

Enquiring minds want to know.

The guy that gave the seminar was great on the sea state parts. He said the USCG typically closes the bar when swell gets into the 5-7 foot range so I’d hazard a guess they weren’t letting anyone in anyway as you were passing by.

 

[Fletcher500]

Details please, was swell different than forecast, period and size, ...

Do you think a drogue would have made your ride safer, more comfortable?

Enquiring minds want to know.

The guy that gave the seminar was great on the sea state parts. He said the USCG typically closes the bar when swell gets into the 5-7 foot range so I’d hazard a guess they weren’t letting anyone in anyway as you were passing by.

I will defer to the many people on here who have transited that bar on boats to answer your question.

My experience was only on ships going up and down the coast. It is truly amazing how things can get bad very quickly when above Pt. Conception, especially in the Winter. Very different weather than what we have in So-Cal.

We have some bars here in So-Cal that can get a little hairy when the swell is up (Oceanside and Mission Bay). I stay away when the swells are greater than 5 ft. as a general rule.

I would not want a drogue deployed going out, or in. Better approach is to choose your weather windows, hang outside the swell line and time your approach going in to avoid set waves, and match up as close to the speed of the swells when going in if possible. Our boat is mostly a slow putter 6-7Kn boat, but entering a bar is when I do appreciate the ability to ramp up to 9 or 10Kns.

Lastly, researching on line and other resources such as Active Captain are helpful for approach lines, as well as hailing the local Harbor Patrol on VHF when close, to get a real time update on conditions. I have had them offer to come out and guide me in on one occasion when it was getting borderline bad.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I've crossed that and other bars numerous times in all manner of boats. Slows singles. Fast twins.

No drogue. Avoid wind and tidal current opposing each other

No drogue. Generally time your crossing early on the flood.

No drogue. Understand high and low water do not councide with slack water.

No drogue. Ignore the common wisdom to cross at slack before the ebb.

No drogue. Learn to steer your boatin a following sea before attempting the bar.

Oh, did I say "No drogue"? Not unless you really know what you're doing with a drogue.

I've never heard of the bar closed at 5 to 7 ft. I question the information you were given

 

[mvweebles]

Details please, was swell different than forecast, period and size, ...

Do you think a drogue would have made your ride safer, more comfortable?

Enquiring minds want to know.

The guy that gave the seminar was great on the sea state parts. He said the USCG typically closes the bar when swell gets into the 5-7 foot range so I’d hazard a guess they weren’t letting anyone in anyway as you were passing by.

I've only crossed the Columbia bar less than a dozen times. It was a non-event as I planned it that way. However, I've passed the mouth of the Columbia many, many times at a significant distance off - I'd have to look at charts, but probably 5 nms or so. The turbulence from the discharge can be felt at a significant distance. I'd guess this is what Comodave experienced.

Peter

 

[Lepke]

There are canyons off Astoria that effect the swells and it's relatively shallow around the bar. You can be 20-30 miles out and still in under 100 fathoms unless you're over Astoria Canyon. When swells come near shore and enter shallower water, they get steeper and closer together. Even at 100 fathoms, it effects the swells. When you're crossing the canyon, the swells can change in 100'. And the tide currents have an effect a long way out.

 

[gsholz]

Going out is easy. You simply stay in Astoria or Ilwaco until the conditions are safe.

Coming in is potentially tricky. With a slow boat you are probably on an overnight passage and may not be able to time the crossing well. You won't see if the swells are breaking until you are among them. Common wisdom is if things are rough you are better off staying offshore until the tide turns and wind eases. Easier said than done sometimes. A couple of years ago the Coast Guard had to airlift a couple off their boat too exhausted and seasick to wait out the bar.

 

[markbarendt]

I've crossed that and other bars numerous times in all manner of boats. Slows singles. Fast twins.

No drogue. Avoid wind and tidal current opposing each other

No drogue. Generally time your crossing early on the flood.

No drogue. Understand high and low water do not councide with slack water.

No drogue. Ignore the common wisdom to cross at slack before the ebb.

No drogue. Learn to steer your boatin a following sea before attempting the bar.

Oh, did I say "No drogue"? Not unless you really know what you're doing with a drogue.

I've never heard of the bar closed at 5 to 7 ft. I question the information you were given

I question it too.

 

[markbarendt]

There are canyons off Astoria that effect the swells and it's relatively shallow around the bar. You can be 20-30 miles out and still in under 100 fathoms unless you're over Astoria Canyon. When swells come near shore and enter shallower water, they get steeper and closer together. Even at 100 fathoms, it effects the swells. When you're crossing the canyon, the swells can change in 100'. And the tide currents have an effect a long way out.

Perfect.

 

[markbarendt]

I will defer to the many people on here who have transited that bar on boats to answer your question.

My experience was only on ships going up and down the coast. It is truly amazing how things can get bad very quickly when above Pt. Conception, especially in the Winter. Very different weather than what we have in So-Cal.

We have some bars here in So-Cal that can get a little hairy when the swell is up (Oceanside and Mission Bay). I stay away when the swells are greater than 5 ft. as a general rule.

I would not want a drogue deployed going out, or in. Better approach is to choose your weather windows, hang outside the swell line and time your approach going in to avoid set waves, and match up as close to the speed of the swells when going in if possible. Our boat is mostly a slow putter 6-7Kn boat, but entering a bar is when I do appreciate the ability to ramp up to 9 or 10Kns.

Lastly, researching on line and other resources such as Active Captain are helpful for approach lines, as well as hailing the local Harbor Patrol on VHF when close, to get a real time update on conditions. I have had them offer to come out and guide me in on one occasion when it was getting borderline bad.

Yeah even the guy with the seminar said that occasionally the Coast Guard guide people in after they’ve had to close the bar.

I’m doing my best to build the tools and have all the resources handy.

 

[markbarendt]

Going out is easy. You simply stay in Astoria or Ilwaco until the conditions are safe.

Coming in is potentially tricky. With a slow boat you are probably on an overnight passage and may not be able to time the crossing well. You won't see if the swells are breaking until you are among them. Common wisdom is if things are rough you are better off staying offshore until the tide turns and wind eases. Easier said than done sometimes. A couple of years ago the Coast Guard had to airlift a couple off their boat too exhausted and seasick to wait out the bar.

Yep can I do my best to make sure that I’ve got a great window.

 

[Comodave]

When we crossed, not entered the Columbia mouth we were going downhill so we couldn’t see the breaking waves since we were on their backs. After we got into the breaking waves we could see a surf line extending to the shore. There were huge waves coming on our starboard quarter. We thought they would board the boat and sink us. However the boat took them in stride and it wasn’t a problem. One of the crew said we would been broached in his 38’ boat. Absolutely I would not have used a drogue if we had had one aboard. We stopped in at the CG station in Tillamook that night and they saiid they don’t transit the Columbia mouth inside 15 NM unless it was an emergency. I now agree.

 

[DDW]

You'd be nuts to intentionally go inbound, in conditions requiring a drogue. If you were caught in a situation - somehow - where you had to, or were in the middle of it, and in danger of broaching, then a drogue might be beneficial. The worst conditions are on a outgoing tide and a drogue would be a bad idea then. This would be an attempt to remedy a chain of bad decisions. I've come in on my sailboat in conditions that were sporty because that is when we arrived. It wasn't that big a deal because you can steer a sailboat. I would not have wanted to be there at that time on the trawler.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Here's a very good two page handout from the USCG on crossing the Columbia River Bar.

https://www.pacificarea.uscg.mil/Po...rossing_Handout.pdf?ver=2017-06-20-140024-403

As you've figured out getting on the back of a wave and trying to stay there in a trawler probably won't work.

In my opinion if the weather is dicey and you are inbound try to cross early on the flood to mid flood. Trying to time your crossing for slack before the ebb and you are moments from the ebb. Trying to time slack before the flood an you'll be slogging through the ebb as you approach the bar. Aim for early rather than late, a trawler can slow down but it can't speed up. While crossing travel at a speed that gives you good steering but is short of full speed, you may want to be able to give a burst of power to swing the stern around.

The bar doesn't have to be scary or dangerous if you're careful with weather and timing.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Good info from the folks above. I have crossed many times and its all about weather. Use NOAA and Windy. I am starting to watch the weather for an April departure.

Cross at slack or on a flood tide. Rarely if not ever cross on an ebb tide, never ever. Don't be afraid to call USCG Cape Disappointment about bar conditions.

Below are also some links to help you. Portage Bay gave you a great link.

https://www.weather.gov/pqr/barcams

https://www.weather.gov/pqr/AllBars


Good luck. Remember if in doubt, don't go.

 

[fgarriso]

IMHO most recreational boats have way to small of rutter(s)

 

[J0k3r]

I always thought that New Zealand's video on bar crossing is excellent advice on crossing bars. Found on this page under 'Crossing the bar clips'
Crossing the bar - https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/commercial/safety/crossing-the-bar/#national_code

Specifically, the timing on when best to cross, in the video @3:30-4:05

 

[Kit_L]

Excellent advice here. As a Marine Rescue volunteer, however, we have to go out over the bar in any conditions if we get the call. As a result, I have had a number of unpleasant experiences over our bar (Shoalhaven River) that I would not wish on anyone.

In my own vessel, I go out on high slack water or the early part of the flood tide for all the reasons given above. I also always watch the bar for a while through binoculars; it's all there to be seen. The worst local conditions for us are are 1) ebb tide, 2) big swells (2.5m, or over 8') and a strong nor'easter (blows directly on-shore in line with the bar). And, of course, these are just the conditions that precede most call-outs!

And I could not agree more with the comments about rudders; my boat has a large one and a long, deep keel (1.95m draft) and it hardly moves in a following sea.

 

[seighlor]

No drogue & avoid ebb tides in any but calm conditions.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

No drogue & avoid ebb tides in any but calm conditions.

Best advice above.

I would add: never, never, never EVER cross the bar on an ebb unless it is flat.

 

[BruceK]

Excellent advice here. As a Marine Rescue volunteer, however, we have to go out over the bar in any conditions if we get the call. As a result, I have had a number of unpleasant experiences over our bar (Shoalhaven River) that I would not wish on anyone.... .

Marine Rescue NSW, a great institution only made possible by its volunteers, thank you.

 

[markpierce]

I've crossed the bar several times. It was always copacetic (smoooth) because the captain was competent. It is a matter of timing.