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06-13-2020, 07:42 AM
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#1
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Guru
City: New England
Vessel Name: Culmination
Vessel Model: Helmsman 38 Sedan
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 715
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A "counterfeit" 'American Tug' for sale (not mine)
Greetings all, it's been a while since I've posted here. Since then we've retired, dealt with some health issues, moved across the country (west to east coast), sold our last boat (AT39), and I've been in the market for another boat (probably my last) though slowed down by the coronavirus.
I thought you might get a laugh out of this classified ad:
https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/b...140243437.html
The listing calls it a 1988 'American Tug' - which didn't exist (I verified it with the company). American Tug started making boats in 2001, with the AT34. This boat is a 1988 Sundowner Tug, that someone apparently spent some creative energy, time, and money on to make look more like an 'American Tug', including getting the real-looking logos they've pasted on the sides of the pilothouse. I wonder what the registration/documentation forms show, the real Sundowner, or has that somehow been faked too.
As always, buyer beware.
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Nick
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06-13-2020, 07:50 AM
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#2
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,540
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Greetings,
Mr. 14. Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a more blatant shyte and shinola job on an engine, ever. I wonder if they even cleaned it before gobbing on the paint?
__________________
RTF
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06-13-2020, 08:10 AM
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#3
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Guru
City: Jacksonville Beach, FL
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,248
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Golly, why would anyone do that? It's not like the Sundowner brand is tarnished.
Couldn't take my eyes off the way they knotted the starboard stern line to a padeye on the transom, rather than passing it through the hawse opening and cleating it off. Maybe it has something to do with that "bow and stern truster" (sic). Thanks for the entertainment.
__________________
"Less judgment than wit is more sail than ballast. Yet it must be confessed that wit give an edge to sense, and recommends it extremely." ~ William Penn
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06-13-2020, 08:32 AM
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#4
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Guru
City: New England
Vessel Name: Culmination
Vessel Model: Helmsman 38 Sedan
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blissboat
Golly, why would anyone do that? It's not like the Sundowner brand is tarnished.
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LOL, you're right! There's nothing at all wrong with a Sundowner. I suspect someone did this because they thought (probably correctly) that they could get more money for an 'American Tug' than a 'Sundowner'. It's one of the oldest motivations in human nature - get more money, even if you have to be deceptive to do it.
It would be interesting to find out if the person selling the boat is the one who faked it up, or if they bought it thinking it was an 'American Tug' and are now passing on the lie (though I also wonder what the registration/documentation forms say, it can't be 'American Tug').
I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me to at a minimum be false advertising - offering for sale something that it isn't. It's not an 'American Tug', no matter what the decals on the pilothouse say.
Like I said, it seems someone put a LOT of time, energy, and effort into creating this fake.
__________________
Nick
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06-13-2020, 08:43 AM
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#5
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,166
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I've never seen a flybridge like this. Looks fairly decently done though definitely does not appear stock. Is this normal?
__________________
_______________________________________
Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
Join our Instagram page @MVWeebles to follow along
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06-13-2020, 08:48 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
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A lot of boat owners either dont really know or care.
I bought a boat that supposedly had a Lehman 135.
The person who sold the long block to the owner, the boat owner and surveyor all missed it.
Wasn't till I started buying parts from American Diesel and with odd questions back and forth did we figured it out.
Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the seller doesn't really know what the boat is.
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06-13-2020, 08:48 AM
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#7
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Guru
City: Jacksonville Beach, FL
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles
I've never seen a flybridge like this. Looks fairly decently done though definitely does not appear stock. Is this normal? Attachment 103809
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What - you don't fancy those salty, marine-grade cupholders on the false stack?
Agree that upper station looks rather tacked-on. Wouldn't care to bake my brains out up there in the Florida sunshine.
__________________
"Less judgment than wit is more sail than ballast. Yet it must be confessed that wit give an edge to sense, and recommends it extremely." ~ William Penn
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06-13-2020, 08:55 AM
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#8
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,540
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Greetings,
Mr. B. You could always run at night and bake your brains with the radar...Just sayin'. There ARE options...
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RTF
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06-13-2020, 09:00 AM
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#9
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Guru
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
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Well damn!
I was expecting something much more controversial, and a real donnybrook, when I saw the thread title.
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06-13-2020, 09:03 AM
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#10
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Guru
City: Jacksonville Beach, FL
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soin2la
Well damn!
I was expecting something much more controversial, and a real donnybrook, when I saw the thread title.
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Yep, I confess - it's a slow Saturday morning around here.
__________________
"Less judgment than wit is more sail than ballast. Yet it must be confessed that wit give an edge to sense, and recommends it extremely." ~ William Penn
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06-13-2020, 09:12 AM
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#11
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: Alzero
Vessel Model: Hatteras 63' CPMY
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,548
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This is obviously somebody’s baby and was lavished with attention and money. The PO spent what it took to make her just the boat he wanted and to hell with anyone else thought about it.
If it wasn’t so overpriced, I’d say it was a great example of the adage that once they reach a certain age it’s the individual boat and how it was cared for, not the builder and the name.
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06-13-2020, 09:24 AM
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#12
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Guru
City: Bayview
Vessel Name: Puffin
Vessel Model: Willard Vega 30
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills
This is obviously somebody’s baby and was lavished with attention and money. The PO spent what it took to make her just the boat he wanted and to hell with anyone else thought about it.
If it wasn’t so overpriced, I’d say it was a great example of the adage that once they reach a certain age it’s the individual boat and how it was cared for, not the builder and the name.
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Agreed!
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What kind of boat is that?
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06-13-2020, 09:48 AM
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#13
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Guru
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
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WWMMS?
What will MurrayM say?
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06-13-2020, 10:21 AM
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#14
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Guru
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,073
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It looks the the love child of an American Tug and Nordic Tug.
I'm sure Tomco would be impressed.
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06-13-2020, 10:27 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
City: Snohomish
Vessel Name: Toki
Vessel Model: Ranger 27
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Mr. 14. Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a more blatant shyte and shinola job on an engine, ever. I wonder if they even cleaned it before gobbing on the paint?
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Couldn't tell from the pictures, but I'm guessing even the belts are painted.
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06-13-2020, 10:34 AM
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#16
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Guru
City: New England
Vessel Name: Culmination
Vessel Model: Helmsman 38 Sedan
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills
This is obviously somebody’s baby and was lavished with attention and money. The PO spent what it took to make her just the boat he wanted and to hell with anyone else thought about it.
If it wasn’t so overpriced, I’d say it was a great example of the adage that once they reach a certain age it’s the individual boat and how it was cared for, not the builder and the name.
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I completely agree with you on both points. I've been a victim myself of spending too much to make something the way I personally want it, and I've always believed that condition and care matter much more than anything else.
But what I'm having a hard time understanding is the apparent forgery of trying to pass it off as an "American Tug", which it isn't. If someone had done everything they had to the boat and left its identity what it actually is, a Sundowner, without putting factory-looking 'American Tug' badges on it and advertising it as an 'American Tug', it would just be an example of your first point, someone making a boat the way they want it. Other than the flybridge, I personally think it looks nice, and would commend the owner on (most of) their work.
But it looks like someone is trying to deceive by claiming it is something it isn't. To try and sell it for more money. It's overpriced for a Sundowner, but would probably be worth more if it was a genuine "American Tug". Which it isn't.
If someone builds a kit car that looks like a Ferrari just for the fun, it's all in good fun for their own enjoyment. But if they then try to represent and price and sell it as a genuine Ferrari, isn't that fraud?
__________________
Nick
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06-13-2020, 10:37 AM
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#17
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blissboat
Wouldn't care to bake my brains out up there in the Florida sunshine.
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Some people only use the fly bridge while docking or in shoal waters. Just needs something to cover it against the weather.
It is well thought out modification.
I wonder what AT will do about this counterfeit. Their reputation is at stake.
I do like the captain's chair on the flybridge.
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
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06-13-2020, 10:39 AM
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#18
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Sandpiper
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills
This is obviously somebody’s baby and was lavished with attention and money. The PO spent what it took to make her just the boat he wanted and to hell with anyone else thought about it.
If it wasn’t so overpriced, I’d say it was a great example of the adage that once they reach a certain age it’s the individual boat and how it was cared for, not the builder and the name.
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I agree. It's no different than owners of Cobra kit cars placing a Shelby badge on it or a Caterham owner switching the badge with a Lotus badge.
Whoever did the work did a nice job.
But if the seller knows that it's fake and listed it as an AT without disclosing it's true manufacturer, it seems unethical.
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06-13-2020, 11:24 AM
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#19
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TF Site Team
City: MX, thru Canal to Bahamas
Vessel Name: Muirgen
Vessel Model: 50' Beebe Passagemaker
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 3,384
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Actually looks well kept up except for the "spray can rebuild" on engine. . . . and as mentioned before, you can at least HOPE that they cleaned any grease/oil off of the engine before spraying it . . .and part of the hatch . . . and the hoses . . . .and part of the ER bulkhead . . . .
Helm station above looks like aftermarket, but not too poorly done, or so it appears. Addition of a Bimini would make it more environmentally friendly to sit up there in clear weather . . .
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06-13-2020, 11:37 AM
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#20
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Guru
City: Looking
Vessel Name: --
Vessel Model: Between boats
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,190
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Thought for a minute it might be my old Sundowner. Same year and everything.
I thought I was the only one to have replaced all the windows with radiused aluminum framed versions.
It's not, though.
Have to say, if it is in spectacular shape, that price isn't that far off. I sold mine for more than that in 2001.
Also have to say, if you were actively looking for an American Tug, and are gullible enough to think that this is one, well.........
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