A "counterfeit" 'American Tug' for sale (not mine)

[Nick14]

Greetings all, it's been a while since I've posted here. Since then we've retired, dealt with some health issues, moved across the country (west to east coast), sold our last boat (AT39), and I've been in the market for another boat (probably my last) though slowed down by the coronavirus.

I thought you might get a laugh out of this classified ad:

https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/boa/d/fresh-meadows-american-tug-trawler-32-ft/7140243437.html

The listing calls it a 1988 'American Tug' - which didn't exist (I verified it with the company). American Tug started making boats in 2001, with the AT34. This boat is a 1988 Sundowner Tug, that someone apparently spent some creative energy, time, and money on to make look more like an 'American Tug', including getting the real-looking logos they've pasted on the sides of the pilothouse. I wonder what the registration/documentation forms show, the real Sundowner, or has that somehow been faked too.

As always, buyer beware.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. 14. Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a more blatant shyte and shinola job on an engine, ever. I wonder if they even cleaned it before gobbing on the paint?

 

[Blissboat]

Golly, why would anyone do that? It's not like the Sundowner brand is tarnished.

Couldn't take my eyes off the way they knotted the starboard stern line to a padeye on the transom, rather than passing it through the hawse opening and cleating it off. Maybe it has something to do with that "bow and stern truster" (sic). Thanks for the entertainment.

 

[Nick14]

Golly, why would anyone do that? It's not like the Sundowner brand is tarnished.

LOL, you're right! There's nothing at all wrong with a Sundowner. I suspect someone did this because they thought (probably correctly) that they could get more money for an 'American Tug' than a 'Sundowner'. It's one of the oldest motivations in human nature - get more money, even if you have to be deceptive to do it.

It would be interesting to find out if the person selling the boat is the one who faked it up, or if they bought it thinking it was an 'American Tug' and are now passing on the lie (though I also wonder what the registration/documentation forms say, it can't be 'American Tug').

I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me to at a minimum be false advertising - offering for sale something that it isn't. It's not an 'American Tug', no matter what the decals on the pilothouse say.

Like I said, it seems someone put a LOT of time, energy, and effort into creating this fake.

 

[mvweebles]

I've never seen a flybridge like this. Looks fairly decently done though definitely does not appear stock. Is this normal?

 

[psneeld]

A lot of boat owners either dont really know or care.

I bought a boat that supposedly had a Lehman 135.

The person who sold the long block to the owner, the boat owner and surveyor all missed it.

Wasn't till I started buying parts from American Diesel and with odd questions back and forth did we figured it out.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the seller doesn't really know what the boat is.

 

[Blissboat]

I've never seen a flybridge like this. Looks fairly decently done though definitely does not appear stock. Is this normal? View attachment 103809

What - you don't fancy those salty, marine-grade cupholders on the false stack?

Agree that upper station looks rather tacked-on. Wouldn't care to bake my brains out up there in the Florida sunshine.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. B. You could always run at night and bake your brains with the radar...Just sayin'. There ARE options...

 

[soin2la]

Well damn!
I was expecting something much more controversial, and a real donnybrook, when I saw the thread title.

 

[Blissboat]

Well damn!
I was expecting something much more controversial, and a real donnybrook, when I saw the thread title.

Yep, I confess - it's a slow Saturday morning around here.

 

[Woodland Hills]

This is obviously somebody’s baby and was lavished with attention and money. The PO spent what it took to make her just the boat he wanted and to hell with anyone else thought about it.

If it wasn’t so overpriced, I’d say it was a great example of the adage that once they reach a certain age it’s the individual boat and how it was cared for, not the builder and the name.

 

[Bob Cofer]

This is obviously somebody’s baby and was lavished with attention and money. The PO spent what it took to make her just the boat he wanted and to hell with anyone else thought about it.

If it wasn’t so overpriced, I’d say it was a great example of the adage that once they reach a certain age it’s the individual boat and how it was cared for, not the builder and the name.

Agreed!

 

[soin2la]

WWMMS?
What will MurrayM say?

 

[Northern Spy]

It looks the the love child of an American Tug and Nordic Tug.

I'm sure Tomco would be impressed.

 

[Toki]

Greetings,
Mr. 14. Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a more blatant shyte and shinola job on an engine, ever. I wonder if they even cleaned it before gobbing on the paint?

Couldn't tell from the pictures, but I'm guessing even the belts are painted.

 

[Nick14]

This is obviously somebody’s baby and was lavished with attention and money. The PO spent what it took to make her just the boat he wanted and to hell with anyone else thought about it.

If it wasn’t so overpriced, I’d say it was a great example of the adage that once they reach a certain age it’s the individual boat and how it was cared for, not the builder and the name.

I completely agree with you on both points. I've been a victim myself of spending too much to make something the way I personally want it, and I've always believed that condition and care matter much more than anything else.

But what I'm having a hard time understanding is the apparent forgery of trying to pass it off as an "American Tug", which it isn't. If someone had done everything they had to the boat and left its identity what it actually is, a Sundowner, without putting factory-looking 'American Tug' badges on it and advertising it as an 'American Tug', it would just be an example of your first point, someone making a boat the way they want it. Other than the flybridge, I personally think it looks nice, and would commend the owner on (most of) their work.

But it looks like someone is trying to deceive by claiming it is something it isn't. To try and sell it for more money. It's overpriced for a Sundowner, but would probably be worth more if it was a genuine "American Tug". Which it isn't.

If someone builds a kit car that looks like a Ferrari just for the fun, it's all in good fun for their own enjoyment. But if they then try to represent and price and sell it as a genuine Ferrari, isn't that fraud?

 

[OldDan1943]

Wouldn't care to bake my brains out up there in the Florida sunshine.

Some people only use the fly bridge while docking or in shoal waters. Just needs something to cover it against the weather.

It is well thought out modification.

I wonder what AT will do about this counterfeit. Their reputation is at stake.

I do like the captain's chair on the flybridge.

 

[syjos]

This is obviously somebody’s baby and was lavished with attention and money. The PO spent what it took to make her just the boat he wanted and to hell with anyone else thought about it.

If it wasn’t so overpriced, I’d say it was a great example of the adage that once they reach a certain age it’s the individual boat and how it was cared for, not the builder and the name.

I agree. It's no different than owners of Cobra kit cars placing a Shelby badge on it or a Caterham owner switching the badge with a Lotus badge.

Whoever did the work did a nice job.

But if the seller knows that it's fake and listed it as an AT without disclosing it's true manufacturer, it seems unethical.

 

[slowgoesit]

Actually looks well kept up except for the "spray can rebuild" on engine. . . . and as mentioned before, you can at least HOPE that they cleaned any grease/oil off of the engine before spraying it . . .and part of the hatch . . . and the hoses . . . .and part of the ER bulkhead . . . .
Helm station above looks like aftermarket, but not too poorly done, or so it appears. Addition of a Bimini would make it more environmentally friendly to sit up there in clear weather . . .

 

[boathealer]

Thought for a minute it might be my old Sundowner. Same year and everything.

I thought I was the only one to have replaced all the windows with radiused aluminum framed versions.

It's not, though.

Have to say, if it is in spectacular shape, that price isn't that far off. I sold mine for more than that in 2001.

Also have to say, if you were actively looking for an American Tug, and are gullible enough to think that this is one, well.........
.
.

 

[rsn48]

I like dishonest people, its so easy to negotiate with them. This boat "appears" to be in reasonable shape and one I'd love to own. I'd start the negotiations with a discussion about the scam they are trying to pull, mumble something about the police, then come in with a hard low price. Lemonade out of lemons.

 

[OldDan1943]

I like dishonest people, its so easy to negotiate with them. This boat "appears" to be in reasonable shape and one I'd love to own. I'd start the negotiations with a discussion about the scam they are trying to pull, mumble something about the police, then come in with a hard low price. Lemonade out of lemons.

I would hope TOMCO would take an interest in this. Protecting its trade mark

 

[Lou_tribal]

Overall I find it nice looking whatever the maker is. Of course the stool as a flybridge seat looks awkward, as well as the house deck chairs. What I find the most terrible is the engine paint, looks like the spray it quick and dirty, maybe something to hide?
Looking at the varnish job and that engine room paint I would not be surprise that that boat was bought, shined up and put for sale.

L

 

[Giggitoni]

That does it. I’m glueing a Bentley hood ornament on my Ford pickup.

 

[rsn48]

That does it. I’m glueing a Bentley hood ornament on my Ford pickup.

You only live once unless you are Buddhist, go for it.

 

[healhustler]

Dang, I feel like I’ve been outed! I was already undertaking the small mods necessary to turn my boat into a Fleming 55 clone. I was, however, sensitive to the idea of besmirching Fleming’s name copyright, so I figured to advertise it as a “Phlegming”!

 

[Nick14]

I like dishonest people, its so easy to negotiate with them.

You're braver than I am! The trouble I have about a situation like this and trying to deal with dishonest people is that a seller almost always knows more about what they're selling than a buyer. Even a careful inspection may not reveal everything, and surveys don't always either (I've found out the hard and expensive way).

If a seller is willing to go to the great lengths of making something look like something it isn't, and misrepresenting it for sale, what else might they be hiding? Did the deception stop solely at a few fake factory-looking 'American Tug' decals and a rattle-can rebuild of the engine? Or are there other issues the seller may have tried to cover up? Sometimes, a buyer doesn't find out everything until after they've bought and owned it for a while. There's an awful lot that can be covered up in a boat (again, I've learned the hard way).

Cobra replicars have 'Shelby' and 'Cobra' plaques on them, but most sellers would never pretend that it's a genuine, authentic Shelby Cobra when they sell it. They're clearly sold as replicas, for a fraction of the price of the real thing. But if someone tried to sell a replica as the genuine article - for 10 or 20 times the price - I think some hard legal lines would be crossed.

It's too bad. If someone had done this to a Sundowner and just called it a Sundowner with custom modifications, it would seem to be a much more honest and comfortable buying situation and would probably find many potential buyers. But that isn't the case, and I think the only and obvious reason for the forgery is because they think an 'American Tug' can be sold for more money than a 'customized' Sundowner. Like I said, it would be interesting to see what the title says. If it says 'Sundowner' that would seem to call for some serious splainin' from the seller (and if it says 'American Tug', that would seem to need even more serious investigation as to how the paperwork might have been forged).

We're all having some laughs over this, which is why I posted it. We could all use some humor these days. But I hope whoever buys this boat doesn't do it and think they bought an "American Tug".

Like I said, buyer beware. Always.

 

[Nick14]

so I figured to advertise it as a “Phlegming”!

I LOVE it!

Maybe this seller could follow your lead and call his boat something like an "Armenian Tug", or a "Chimerican Tug", or even an "Amerikan Tug".

 

[OldDan1943]

That does it. I’m glueing a Bentley hood ornament on my Ford pickup.

You might find someone who will believe Bentley made a pickup truck, go for it.

 

[OldDan1943]

If a seller is willing to go to the great lengths of making something look like something it isn't, and misrepresenting it for sale, what else might they be hiding? Did the deception stop solely at a few fake factory-looking 'American Tug' decals and a rattle-can rebuild of the engine? Or are there other issues the seller may have tried to cover up? Sometimes, a buyer doesn't find out everything until after they've bought and owned it for a while. There's an awful lot that can be covered up in a boat (again, I've learned the hard way).
It's too bad. If someone had done this to a Sundowner and just called it a Sundowner with custom modifications, it would seem to be a much more honest and comfortable buying situation and would probably find many potential buyers. But that isn't the case, and I think the only and obvious reason for the forgery is because they think an 'American Tug' can be sold for more money than a 'customized' Sundowner. Like I said, it would be interesting to see what the title says. If it says 'Sundowner' that would seem to call for some serious splainin' from the seller (and if it says 'American Tug', that would seem to need even more serious investigation as to how the paperwork might have been forged).

It was listed as a "limited edition 32ft American Tug"