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Old 01-31-2023, 08:28 AM   #1
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I like to

oups don't know the word in English ?
In French we say "virer le moteur" it mean before start your engine you turn it manually to be sure no water or nothing block it.


The old Baudouin you "open" the compression and turn the engine with a rod bar.
Even on the 32 lt Poyaud you can do that (without " open "the compression)
you have a special tool you fit at one place like starter and you can turn the engine to check.


But no more this possibility on newer engines ? (ok still possible on small one )
Before start my Cat who don't work during few month it will be good if we can doing that.


You know I am a man who always thinking the worst and : if some leak of coolant, if some leak of raw water, if




Another example before engine had an additional pump for put the oil pressure BEFORE the start , no more ?
On older model, for example our former Perkins ok it was easy manually push the stop on the injection pump and run few time the starter until you got pressure and start...
But on the modern one ... no more manual option all by "electronic" and I really don't know what could happen to this "electronic"if I give to her two contradictory "order" turn the start and push the stop .... ..


For me it is scary because after month stop I don't like start without this elementary precaution.
Anyone here already fit a "vireur" manual or electrical ) on their Cat ?



http://https://www.galigrup.com/fr/p...reurs-moteurs/
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Old 01-31-2023, 08:37 AM   #2
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Most modern engines are less susceptible to getting stuff in the cylinders. But if in doubt after long term storage, you can always pull injectors or spark plugs and either turn it by hand or with the starter to make sure it spins freely.
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Old 01-31-2023, 09:07 AM   #3
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Back in history you also had to build a fire under the engine, some needed a flaming rag inserted into the air intake, some needed a pony motor started, Some needed a shot of either, some needed a jumper to provide double batter voltage, some needed the timing to be retarded. Some, in fact needed the oil to be circulated prior to starting. BUT...most did not and do not.

If I wanted to go back to the old days I guess I could with a sail or oars or horses, but I don't.

pete
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Old 01-31-2023, 10:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
Back in history you also had to build a fire under the engine, some needed a flaming rag inserted into the air intake, some needed a pony motor started, Some needed a shot of either, some needed a jumper to provide double batter voltage, some needed the timing to be retarded. Some, in fact needed the oil to be circulated prior to starting. BUT...most did not and do not.

If I wanted to go back to the old days I guess I could with a sail or oars or horses, but I don't.

pete
Interesting take on it. And for the most part accurate. Except for "Some, in fact needed the oil to be circulated prior to starting." Some modern engines need pre-lube. The MTU 4000 is one. When the start button is pressed an electric pump builds oil pressure, then the starter cranks. If the operator needs a quick start in an emergency he can override the pre-lube. I'll bet there are other modern engines that also pre-lube.
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Old 01-31-2023, 10:50 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Portage_Bay View Post
Interesting take on it. And for the most part accurate. Except for "Some, in fact needed the oil to be circulated prior to starting." Some modern engines need pre-lube. The MTU 4000 is one. When the start button is pressed an electric pump builds oil pressure, then the starter cranks. If the operator needs a quick start in an emergency he can override the pre-lube. I'll bet there are other modern engines that also pre-lube.

Prelube tends to be more common on large engines. Smaller engines take less time to get everything oiled when you start cranking, and they're less expensive, so it's harder to justify the cost and complexity of a prelube system (especially as the benefit is smaller on an engine that gets oil distributed faster on startup).
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Old 01-31-2023, 11:26 AM   #6
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Not so old days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
Back in history you also had to build a fire under the engine, some needed a flaming rag inserted into the air intake, some needed a pony motor started, Some needed a shot of either, some needed a jumper to provide double batter voltage, some needed the timing to be retarded. Some, in fact needed the oil to be circulated prior to starting. BUT...most did not and do not.

If I wanted to go back to the old days I guess I could with a sail or oars or horses, but I don't.

pete



than you said , I don't understand with my poor English level if your post is a jock or an insult ...
Any way this way : put engine in oil pressure still be the norm in professional boat /ship/ big gen-set.
The 1320hp with manual tool for "virer" the engine before start them was only 20 years old and in Merchand ship school is still be the normal way to start an engine.


Of course on smaller engine and/or older engine we could remove plug or/injector but for my example C12 it is little more complicated than remove 4 injector or plug :-)


The manual tool for "virer" the 32 lt engine was very simple and basic :
made for fit in one hole , you push it to engage on the teeth of the engine wheel and use ...heu "une clef à cliquet" no risk if you forget this tool the spring disengage the teeth of the tool.

It is very KISS and useful.


Even the "small" 800hp DEUTZ had a pump for put the circuit in pressure.






Precision for Pete Mesinger after check it still exist even for non dinausore engine :


https://parts.cat.com/fr/catcorp/448-5087
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Old 01-31-2023, 11:29 AM   #7
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I think Pete's point was that a lot of things that older engine designs needed (and some large ones still do) have been designed out for simplicity and easier operation.
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