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Old 01-28-2019, 01:09 PM   #41
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I don't think so - we let our kids out all the time. We just taught them as best we could including to follow the laws.
The hard part isn’t following them, the hard part is knowing all of them.
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Old 01-28-2019, 01:11 PM   #42
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Yet this is simplistic enough to be idiotic.

On the Bullfrog, the seat for tiller steered and wheel steered is in exactly the same place, and is exactly the same seat (they simply add a seat back). Weight distribution is what it is, and can be the same in either configuration. It is actually more likely that the weight is further back in the wheel steered, as two people are going to sit behind the wheel, while on the tiller version one will be on the forward seat.

If you don't want to change the placard, there is another solution: buy a new decal for the motor cover. In the Bullfrog case, since any of the big 3 motors are identical between 10 and 20 hp (but for the throttle stop), simply put a 15 hp decal on the 20 hp motor and you're good to go. It would take an engine mechanic with the ability to read out the ECU version to prove you wrong.
As I said before you an do whatever you want and have no affects unless you have an accident and/or get caught.
Boater on Sleepy Hollow lake did just what you said - ad an accident, got caught, paid many 5 figures in damages and fines.

In the end the boats rated for less Hp very often run poorly when over powered.
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Old 01-28-2019, 01:12 PM   #43
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The hard part isn’t following them, the hard part is knowing all of them.
Maybe - but certainly in this case we do know the rules and if in doubt we have plenty of LEO's in the area to ask.
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Old 01-28-2019, 02:00 PM   #44
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Hey wait a minute!! That could be me and Crusty!!! Hold my scotch Crusty would you please??
Cuz your dink is faster than mine.
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Old 01-28-2019, 03:28 PM   #45
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We rode the rivers in our jonboats with outboards from ten years old on back in the day. Our parents would be in prison and us in foster homes today.
True. My friend Pete and I used to tool around in a 10' boat with a 50hp Merc on lake Washington. As I recall we could do around 60.
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:02 PM   #46
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Personally I think this all comes down to your "risk" tolerance!!
Firstly, how far over the rating are you willing to go in your engine selection?? How do you determine this "rating" if you don't follow what the manufacturer states? How big is tooo big?

In TT's case, being only over by 10hp (17%) and already owning the engine, from strictly operating safely, probably would be OK, especially operated by a responsible, safety minded individual.
However, are you willing to risk no insurance coverage (denial of claim), potential criminal charges (don't know the law in this area and it probably varies by location), and personal financial liability for damages should an accident occur? It could happen, but very unlikely. Are you willing to take the risk? Some are, some not so much.

For example, I know of a case in the eastern US where a boater was anchored for the night, had on his anchor light, and a drunk boater collided with his anchored boat. They spent 2 days at trial discussing whether or not his anchor light met US Coast Guard regs as he had substituted an LED bulb in a light fixture that originally was rated with a regular bulb. Apparently the rating is for the entire fixture including the bulb and does not allow using a different bulb type (otherwise, it would have to be "recertified"). This was the tactic employed by the drunk boater's lawyer. Apparently the issue wasn't the fact that the fellow was drunk, it was whether or not the light was bright enough or whether it met the "rating". Go figure!
Just my ramblings on this interesting topic,
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:11 PM   #47
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Looking over the railing, watching the water pass while going six knots, seems pretty fast for this old sailor. Am not a fan of loud engine noise.
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Old 01-28-2019, 09:51 PM   #48
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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...plate&_sacat=0


Why not just go to ebay and order a new capacity plate with whatever numbers you want on it?
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:57 PM   #49
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Twisted: Now that I see the increase your speaking about, I’d change out the engine decal, as suggested above. Going from 60 to 70 HP considering the data you mentioned hardly seems unreasonable unless it’s an awfully heavy 70. If I had the motor, I’d do it.
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Old 01-29-2019, 04:21 AM   #50
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...
If you're a moron and are in the camp that " I should be able to do anything to it and it wont break or kill me" it's probably smart to stick with the rated HP.

HOLLYWOOD
Until I see real data, I believe the rated hp doesn't keep morons any safer. They will still hurt themselves and others at any hp.

Beyond an advisory role (whichis useful), these hp ratings and limitations are more of a bureaucratic reason to exist than anything else.

Keeping us safer? Keep dreaming.
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:18 AM   #51
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Until I see real data, I believe the rated hp doesn't keep morons any safer. They will still hurt themselves and others at any hp.

Beyond an advisory role (whichis useful), these hp ratings and limitations are more of a bureaucratic reason to exist than anything else.

Keeping us safer? Keep dreaming.

Kinda like - only the rules that you deem appropriate apply to you maybe.
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:21 AM   #52
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"Take the cap plate off and it's likely they will completely ignore that you don't have one(I don't have one on my boat and never been asked about it/dozens of stops)."

Perhaps where you are - do not come up here and expect the same.
Then swap a cowling or make another capacity plate yourself.


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Old 01-29-2019, 10:49 AM   #53
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Then swap a cowling or make another capacity plate yourself.


Please see the post about the fines/damages when they did just this on a lake in NY.
If you choose to ignore laws and rules please do not complain if/when those around you do the same.
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Old 01-29-2019, 11:14 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by firehoser75 View Post

For example, I know of a case in the eastern US where a boater was anchored for the night, had on his anchor light, and a drunk boater collided with his anchored boat. They spent 2 days at trial discussing whether or not his anchor light met US Coast Guard regs as he had substituted an LED bulb in a light fixture that originally was rated with a regular bulb. Apparently the rating is for the entire fixture including the bulb and does not allow using a different bulb type (otherwise, it would have to be "recertified"). This was the tactic employed by the drunk boater's lawyer. Apparently the issue wasn't the fact that the fellow was drunk, it was whether or not the light was bright enough or whether it met the "rating". Go figure!
Just my ramblings on this interesting topic,
Tom
Another example of the silliness of some litigation. Some places allow frivolous litigation to go ahead with little or no consequence to the silly party. Your example is just that. No idea shown of the actual result, which undoubtedly has a far greater penalty for the drunk behaviour that for the "innocent" behaviour re the light.

Here in Canada (not saying our whole legal system is better) there are significant extra costs to bringing or continuing with silly litigation, so we don't see near as much that makes you wonder.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:00 PM   #55
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It goes on your permanent record.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:11 PM   #56
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My last dink was a 9.5 ft Achilles with a wood floor and inflated keel on 15" tubes. It was rated for 8HP and I started operating it with a Honda 2HP. When I acquired a Merc 2-strike 15, I tried it out on the dink for fun. It's the same engine platform as the old Merc 2-stroke 8 and 9.9 HP models. They each weigh the same 77 Lbs.

It was a handful! It felt like I was driving a sheet of plywood on an ice rink! I took off the Whale Tail and it improved a bit but was still very unstable over 2/3 throttle, so I nursed it along for a while and took it carefully. It could be a wet ride at times.

Last year I purchased a 10' 10" (3.3m) dink from Costco for under $500 that's rated for 15hp. It still has a rigid floor (aluminum) and an inflated keel but has 17" tubes and almost an extra foot of beam. This dink is rated for 15HP. It's a world of difference in stability, handling and dry ride.

I enjoyed testing the waters with an over powered dink but in the end, this setup is the best fit for me. I've put my 2HP up for sale in the classifieds if anyone is interested in a great running 2HP Honda.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:42 PM   #57
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That $500 Costo dink sounds like a serious deal! I paid waaaay more for my West Marine 310 with the fiberglass floor, and it was on sale.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:52 PM   #58
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That $500 Costo dink sounds like a serious deal! I paid waaaay more for my West Marine 310 with the fiberglass floor, and it was on sale.
I love this dink! It was one of my best $500 purchases for the boat.
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:59 PM   #59
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Thanks for all the discussion.


It would be easy to hide the over-powering with a different cowl or such and not get fined.


But the real risk is if there is actually an accident - not me being drunk or an idiot, but an accident, because they actually do happen despite all good actions. Insurance contracts all have clauses about breaking laws, falsifying info, etc. If the boat were over-powered, it could nullify my liability insurance, and my excess insurance, leaving me totally exposed. That's way too much risk, because I know shirt does happens, and it could wipe me out.


The only way I would do it is if I could legitimately re-certify the boat to a higher HP capacity, given a fixed console and steering system. I think AB has just chosen not to do that where other vendors have. I mean come on, Arthur's 11' dink is rated for 50hp and my 15' is rated for 40hp? So I'll probably continue to explore this approach, looking for a legitimate re-rating, not a way to get away with something.


And by the way, I don't agree that these are just bureaucratic nonsense rules to keep the Coast Guard in business. If you read the regs, a lot of thought clearly went into them, much like all the other boat safety regs.
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:00 PM   #60
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Sounds like you are looking at an AB 16' Lamina. As much as I like my 14' Lamina, if I were in your position I would look at alternative brands of RIB. eg Zodiac Pro 500 is just short of 16' and is allowed max. of 70HP. Like you I would not exceed manuf. specs for a bunch of reasons.
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