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Old 06-16-2022, 08:57 AM   #1
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Cheoy Lee 46 LRC $130k, Ft Lauderdale FL

Greetings,
Well, she's up for sale again, already. https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/197...awler-8358773/ Did we ask too little?
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Old 06-16-2022, 09:05 AM   #2
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Hmmm! Your header above shows $130K and the Yachtworld listing shows $249K?

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Old 06-16-2022, 09:13 AM   #3
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Greetings,
Mr. DM . Yep. $130K is what I was offering her to TF members. $145K is what she was subsequently listed with a broker for. She closed yesterday and walla. Now she's being listed for $249K. Flipping, I suspect. Someone on TF should have bought her, I guess.


Am I p*ssed off? Nope. I figured ~$130 in my pocket was a fair price. Is she WORTH more?
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Old 06-16-2022, 10:51 AM   #4
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RT, why don’t you make him an offer of $120k? Then it would be a “backward flip”
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Old 06-16-2022, 11:26 AM   #5
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Greetings,
Mr. M. Hahaha....Nope. Time to move on. I STILL think what we got was a fair price whether we got "scammed" or not. If someone is that obsessed with making money, they're the one's that will have to live with themselves. Life's too short to be worried about that sort of thing. Karma is alive and well IMHO.
Is she "worth" $249K????? Personally, I don't think so BUT it IS a wacky market.
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Old 06-16-2022, 11:27 AM   #6
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"Backward/Reverse Flip"... LOL!!!! IMHO (which is worth MUCH LESS than a cup of coffee back in the 1950s)... I think the days of people being able to "flip" boats simply because it's a "seller's market" will be coming to an end much sooner than people think. This is only a gut feel (from someone who has been looking for that rare unicorn in "good" condition at pre-covid prices)... but... you know what they say about people with "opinions" LOL!!!
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Old 06-16-2022, 12:24 PM   #7
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The market is crazy now. They boat is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Just had this discussion with Boat/US (Geico) last week. They insisted that my boat was worth about half of what they are selling for. “Current fair market value”. What a joke. I talked to Peter at Novamar and he got me quality insurance for almost 2.5 times what Boat/US said the boat is worth. It is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, crazy but that is reality now.
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Old 06-16-2022, 01:03 PM   #8
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It might be worth more to a cash buyer, but to those needing to finance, I'm doubtful a lender sees it worth that. Add to that the Fed raising the interest rate .75% this week and more people will be unable to afford the payment. If it doesn't sell before September, they may find themselves under water.

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Old 06-16-2022, 01:08 PM   #9
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Greetings,
Mr. OC. Perhaps but as I mentioned, we're fine with what we got. On to the next boat!


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Old 06-16-2022, 01:29 PM   #10
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Greetings,
Mr. OC. Perhaps but as I mentioned, we're fine with what we got. On to the next boat!


Which is?
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Old 06-16-2022, 01:35 PM   #11
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Greetings,
Mr. k. Power catamaran. 28' to 32'. Minimal canvas. Able to cruise @ 24+knots. Similar to World Cat 3208 or Arrow cat 320. Private/enclosed head. NO center consoles. East coast preferred. Any leads????
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Old 06-16-2022, 01:38 PM   #12
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Yes!!!
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Old 06-16-2022, 02:41 PM   #13
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"Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it." It's amazing how many "sellers" don't understand that simple fact when it comes to anything they are selling. Not just boats. And I count myself in that same boat: I was trying to sell a 1995 Ford Ranger. I bought it from the original owner (a friend), I knew it was never in an accident, no rust or issues, always started right up for me, and had COLD AC (in FL). A great little truck. But... the paint had faded... and it had a few minor dings (where one of my kids had backed into it)... etc. To me... a dependable truck with great AC (not AC that needed to be 'charged')... it was worth $2K. To the rest of the world (pre-covid)... well... I ended up taking $800. LOLFOF!!!!
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Old 06-16-2022, 02:55 PM   #14
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The market is crazy now.
I don't think it's as hot as it used to be, but even if there is a delay, things are slowing down. I just sold my fishing boat and it sold at an "okay" price, but nothing spectacular. Took a long time also. I should have sold it a year ago when things were nuts. Today's +0.75% Fed increase, and another coming in July, will slow things down a lot. People need to buy houses and such, but not boats.

I'd say anyone wanting to buy should wait until the end of the year or later. Be patient 6+ months and you'll save a ton.
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Old 06-16-2022, 03:18 PM   #15
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That’s a beautiful boat.
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Old 06-16-2022, 03:40 PM   #16
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We're seeing a lot of game playing in listing of houses and boats. Some may intend to sell, although they don't expect to get the asking price. Others are just tossing out numbers they wouldn't refuse to sell. Asking prices and prices one will accept have no consistent relationship. I've seen houses bought and 50% more asked, but then sold for only 10% more. I think if they did buy the boat expecting to flip it, then they may have just made a huge mistake. It's not worth what they're asking and in a couple of months, if things go as I expect, they'll likely not be able to even net what they paid.

People see a market moving up and think there's no limit and things will continue. Your attitude, RTF, is reasonable. You are comfortable with what you got. If they buyer makes a nice profit, great, but not likely to happen.

I remember long, long ago, my mother sold her house the week it was listed. Oh, she worried she'd sold it too cheap. Buyers lived in it six months, relocated and put it on the market for $33k more. She wasn't happy to see that. Then they dropped the price many times over the next 2 years. Over 2 years after buying it, they sold it and after paying realtors they lost $5k. It had become a stale listing and no one looking, figuring something must be wrong. Only thing wrong was the pricing.

We're already seeing the prices dropping on listed houses and I'm sure it's happening on boats. The window for buying and flipping a boat, without making major improvements to it, is very short and I think your buyer already missed it. Will be interesting to follow.
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Old 06-16-2022, 03:43 PM   #17
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Greetings,
Mr. k. Power catamaran. 28' to 32'. Minimal canvas. Able to cruise @ 24+knots. Similar to World Cat 3208 or Arrow cat 320. Private/enclosed head. NO center consoles. East coast preferred. Any leads????
I like your attitude about selling. Best of luck in your new boat, when you find it sir!
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Old 06-16-2022, 03:58 PM   #18
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I'd like to point out that the boat went back on the market immediately by meaning it was in top shape to begin with. Hats-off to RT Firefly for putting a solid boat on the market.

While seeing a boat get "flipped" is a head-scratcher to me, I still can't get over that it didn't sell to a fellow TF member. Where are the buyers? I thought we had a ton of lurkers for purchasing. This was a stabilized boat with trans-ocean range.

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Old 06-16-2022, 04:01 PM   #19
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Where are the buyers? I thought we had a ton of lurkers for purchasing.
Peter
Tire kickers? A lot of buyers until....
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Old 06-16-2022, 04:16 PM   #20
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BandB you are so right about people seeing a sellers market that was on fire and thinking it would continue forever, that every boat sold for the asking price, no matter how ridiculous.

That may have been the case - up until right now. Just in the past couple of weeks the stock market has plunged over 20%, the reality that diesel fuel prices will remain north of $6/gal for the foreseeable future has set in, and most economic analysts have come out predicting a coming recession.

This situation also (totally IMHO) shows what’s wrong with this country. We used to make things. We used to be the envy of the world in manufacturing. That’s what made us the largest economy in the world.

In recent years the obsession with short term profits, glorified day trading, has deified arbitrage. Buy something for less than it’s worth, and resell it for more than it’s worth. Without adding any value whatsoever from your own efforts. In other word, flipping.

Industrialists used to be the American business hero. Now it’s hedge fund managers. Professional flippers.

Yes, it’s a ‘free market’ and anyone can buy or sell things for whatever they want. But there’s no value added in the process. Which is why China has now surpassed the U.S. as the leading world economic power. And will stay that way. I would have much preferred for my new boat build to have been in the U.S., but it’s coming from China. We’ve forgotten how to make things, and they now make almost everything.

IMHO if this flipper bought your boat last year or even a few months ago, they’d probably get away with this flip. But flippers tend to not be able to see past the ends of their noses. They might be very shrewd at seeing what’s happened, but not so much at what’s going to happen. I agree if they don’t pull this flip off very fast, they might end up either holding the boat for a lot longer than they’d planned, or sell for a loss.

Even if that happens, from my many years of dealing with hedge fund managers, I think they still won’t learn from the experience.
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