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Old 05-17-2021, 08:52 PM   #21
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Hi Steve,



I'm getting prepared to purchase a Nighthawk M1.



Do you use an external antenna? Which one?



Have you used in the San Juans and Gulf Islands?



I've been reading SeaBits blog and others here and am undecided on the external antenna.


You wanna buy my old one? I upgraded to a 5G version and am selling my M1 for $100. Retail was $300 and eBay has them used for between $125-$150.

I can also connect you with the AT&T guy we all use around here for service.
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Old 05-17-2021, 08:54 PM   #22
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An update for us. The T-Mobile tablet/hot spot worked great for a year. Going past monthly limit kept right on streaming. Then in March when the limit was reached it was tough to get email.
Now TM has what’s called “Home Internet “ based on 5G wireless and truly unlimited. We have been using it for two weeks and it has been a rock star. With a tv streaming free Netflix in HD and two laptops going it doesn’t even hiccup. It’s $60/month. Ookla speed test 140/50 Mbs.


Very impressive. Do they have anything in their terms of service about mobile use? I’ve heard (second hand) about people with this plan getting shut down when they start moving their rv or boat.
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Old 05-18-2021, 01:15 AM   #23
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Very impressive. Do they have anything in their terms of service about mobile use? I’ve heard (second hand) about people with this plan getting shut down when they start moving their rv or boat.
Sure they could shut me down. When I asked for a solution to our need for a mobile hotspot, this is what the store manager offered. I guess we will have to load it in the truck and go on a field trip.

From the T-Mobile site
$60/month with AutoPay

One fixed price for high-speed home internet—equipment included— with the massive capacity of T-Mobile’s expanding network.

During congestion, Home Internet customers may notice speeds lower than other customers due to data prioritization. Not available in all areas. Plus taxes & fees for accounts currently paying for a T-Mobile wireless line with additional taxes & fees: Monthly Regulatory Programs (RPF) & Telco Recovery Fee (TRF) totaling $1.16 per data only line ($0.15 for RPF & $1.01 for TRF) apply; taxes/fees approx. 3-12% of bill. Qualifying account and credit approval required. For use only with T-Mobile High-Speed Internet Gateway for in-home use at location provided at activation. If canceling service, return gateway or pay up to $370. Video streaming resolution depends on available speeds. For best performance, leave video streaming applications at their default resolution setting. Not compatible with some live TV streaming services. AutoPay Pricing for lines 1-8 on account. Without AutoPay, $5 more. May not be reflected on 1st bill. Coverage not available in some areas. Network Management: Service may be slowed, suspended, terminated, or restricted for misuse, abnormal use, interference with our network or ability to provide quality service to other users, or significant roaming. See T-Mobile.com/OpenInternet for details. See Terms and Conditions (including arbitration provision) at www.T-Mobile.com for additional information.
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Old 05-27-2021, 07:26 AM   #24
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I just put together a system for my boat this spring. Hardware wise, I used a Pepwave Max Transit Cat 18 (plus a Mikrotik Groove for pulling in outside wifi). I went with the $50 / 100GB T-Mobile plan (have to call to get it, it's not on the website).
Why the Mikrotik? Are you using the Transit for the on-boat WiFi? How are you handling the failover/switchover from cell through the Peplink to WiFi through the Groove?

I'm heading in a similar direction, but am entertaining use of the WiFi on the Max Transit to handle the on-shore connections, and use an existing Unifi access point network on the boat to handle on-board WiFi.

Are you using their Speedfusion options?
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Old 05-27-2021, 07:34 AM   #25
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Why the Mikrotik? Are you using the Transit for the on-boat WiFi? How are you handling the failover/switchover from cell through the Peplink to WiFi through the Groove?

I'm heading in a similar direction, but am entertaining use of the WiFi on the Max Transit to handle the on-shore connections, and use an existing Unifi access point network on the boat to handle on-board WiFi.

Are you using their Speedfusion options?

I haven't tried any of the speedfusion stuff yet (haven't felt the need). The Transit is handling the on-boat wifi. As far as failover, the Groove is plugged into the WAN port of the Transit (set as priority 1 on the Transit), then cellular is priority 2. Failover works nicely. Takes a couple seconds for the Transit to notice the loss of internet from the Groove, then fails over to cellular. Fail-back is almost seamless. I settled on health check every 5 seconds for the WAN port, timeout after 3 seconds, failover after 1 failure (5 successes needed to fail back).

Your proposed setup is the better way to do it. Keeps all of the config in 1 interface instead of 2, plus the Transit has 2x2 wifi, the Groove is 1x1 (and doesn't auto switch between 2.4 and 5ghz while the Transit can for wifi WAN).

I may eventually add a separate access point and move to using the wifi WAN feature on the Transit, but I avoided it initially. The Groove (with antenna) and a nice mount for it cost me $150 which is significantly less than a good external antenna setup for the Transit and then a separate access point for the on-boat wifi. So the Groove is just a product of me being cheap for the initial setup.
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Old 05-27-2021, 08:46 AM   #26
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I haven't tried any of the speedfusion stuff yet (haven't felt the need). The Transit is handling the on-boat wifi. As far as failover, the Groove is plugged into the WAN port of the Transit (set as priority 1 on the Transit), then cellular is priority 2. Failover works nicely. Takes a couple seconds for the Transit to notice the loss of internet from the Groove, then fails over to cellular. Fail-back is almost seamless. I settled on health check every 5 seconds for the WAN port, timeout after 3 seconds, failover after 1 failure (5 successes needed to fail back).

Your proposed setup is the better way to do it. Keeps all of the config in 1 interface instead of 2, plus the Transit has 2x2 wifi, the Groove is 1x1 (and doesn't auto switch between 2.4 and 5ghz while the Transit can for wifi WAN).

I may eventually add a separate access point and move to using the wifi WAN feature on the Transit, but I avoided it initially. The Groove (with antenna) and a nice mount for it cost me $150 which is significantly less than a good external antenna setup for the Transit and then a separate access point for the on-boat wifi. So the Groove is just a product of me being cheap for the initial setup.
My concern about interfaces is that while I know how to do all the technical stuff, I really want to avoid having to fire up overly technical interfaces (text terminal screens, etc) any time we anchor somewhere that might have available wifi.

The Groove is probably a workable solution for a friend that has a new-to-them boat that came with a MOFI4500 unit. The WiFi radio in the MOFI is slow, 2.4 only and not all that great. Adding a Groove might give him the on-shore WiFi bridging he's after. Being able to wire it with just PoE is a plus, as that's just one twisted pair line up the mast.

I have other Ubiquiti stuff on-board for the on-boat WiFi. So if I had to add a WiFi bridge like this I'd probably get the Bullet, if just to use the same configuration apps. But for stand-alone, the Mikrotik might be better, as the Unifi stuff tends to have features that expect you to have all Unifi stuff (like their switches/router).

I'm cautiously optimistic the Peplink will be able to handle both cell and shore wifi (with suitable antennas added, of course). But if not I can always add a Groove/Bullet.

I went with separate WiFi access points because where the router is best placed is not the best place for providing WiFi. Using separate access points lets you just run a twisted pair wire with Power-over-Ethernet and place them wherever gives best WiFi coverage on the boat.

It does add the complexity of an added network switch and the PoE power adapting. But that's an OK trade-off. There are such things are PoE switches that'll do both, but finding one that does the right PoE voltage narrows your selections a lot. It's gives you more options if you get a regular Ethernet switch and then whatever separate PoE adapters are needed. It's a few more devices and some wiring, but the cost is minimal and you avoid getting stuck later if you want to change or user different PoE devices (like cameras).
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Old 05-27-2021, 08:50 AM   #27
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The wrinkle in my plan is 5G. Peplink does make a Max Transit 5G CAT20 but it's internal performance isn't quite up to handling full 5G transmit speeds.

There's rumor of another 5G product coming from them, but delivery date is not yet known. These are not cheap gizmos so I'd prefer to avoid pulling the trigger on something this week only to have the next gen drop a month later. But then I don't want to hold out and have it not become available until the Fall.
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Old 05-27-2021, 09:01 AM   #28
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Thread title Cellular wifi hot spot. Confused.

I can understand efforts to draw in and enhance weak signals with boosters.
However OP said no cell phone, why not? No one needs to know the phone number. These days my cell phone is more than capable of being a wifi hotspot. In fact tethered seems to work better than wireless to stream movies.
I use smartphone to bypass cell data plan by connecting to available wifi in marina but also have the auto switch ON so it uses data if wifi is slow.

My question
Except to enhance a weak signal, what advantage do these devices have separate to an iPhone or smartphone?
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Old 05-27-2021, 09:03 AM   #29
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The current Max Transit 5G had just come out when I bought mine. No carrier had officially approved it yet and it was $160 more than the CAT 18 4G version, so I just bought the CAT 18. So far, performance has been plenty adequate on T-Mobile.

As far as the Transit doing wifi WAN, it's said to work well. I only skipped it due to the cost of external antennas and another access point. For me, the location of the transit is adequate to get good coverage on the whole boat (and my boat is smaller than yours anyway). So even if I move to a separate AP at some point, it'll probably go right next to the Transit.

The Groove configuration can all be done from the Web UI. It's not the most intuitive if you want to have it remember networks other than the last one you told it to connect to, however (getting it to do that is really easy).
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Old 05-29-2021, 01:54 PM   #30
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Thread title Cellular wifi hot spot. Confused.

I can understand efforts to draw in and enhance weak signals with boosters.
However OP said no cell phone, why not? No one needs to know the phone number. These days my cell phone is more than capable of being a wifi hotspot. In fact tethered seems to work better than wireless to stream movies.
I use smartphone to bypass cell data plan by connecting to available wifi in marina but also have the auto switch ON so it uses data if wifi is slow.

My question
Except to enhance a weak signal, what advantage do these devices have separate to an iPhone or smartphone?
No doubt a cell phone as a hot spot can be adequate for many people, depending on your needs regarding internet.
The differences are a few. One is that a cell phone, though it can serve as a hot spot, it is not designed to be a full time hotspot. continuous hotspot duty can wear down the phone battery, cause some over heating, plus can be interrupted by phone calls, texts, and social media notifications. These are all non-issues with a dedicated hotspot.
Secondly, the 5G cellular world is evolving as we speak. If your phone is a year or more old, it will not include all the current 5G bands that say, the Inseego T-mobile 5G hotspot includes that came out in January.
Also the larger device and the multiple internal bands might explain why in some places going north on the AICW, our phones were cutting out, but the Inseego still had a signal.
Unfortunately even the current devices are not yet taking full advantage of mm Wave so I'd bet this will be a changing and evolving 5G landscape for at least another year or more.
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Old 05-29-2021, 03:27 PM   #31
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The Groove configuration can all be done from the Web UI. It's not the most intuitive if you want to have it remember networks other than the last one you told it to connect to, however (getting it to do that is really easy).
Does the Mikrotik android app allow selecting/saving scanned wifi networks?

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...android.tikapp

That'd be a great option, just open an app on the phone versus trying to wander through a web interface setup for desktop mode viewing.
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Old 05-29-2021, 03:51 PM   #32
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No doubt a cell phone as a hot spot can be adequate for many people, depending on your needs regarding internet.
The differences are a few. One is that a cell phone, though it can serve as a hot spot, it is not designed to be a full time hotspot. continuous hotspot duty can wear down the phone battery, cause some over heating, plus can be interrupted by phone calls, texts, and social media notifications. These are all non-issues with a dedicated hotspot.
Secondly, the 5G cellular world is evolving as we speak. If your phone is a year or more old, it will not include all the current 5G bands that say, the Inseego T-mobile 5G hotspot includes that came out in January.
Also the larger device and the multiple internal bands might explain why in some places going north on the AICW, our phones were cutting out, but the Inseego still had a signal.
Unfortunately even the current devices are not yet taking full advantage of mm Wave so I'd bet this will be a changing and evolving 5G landscape for at least another year or more.
So far using the phone as a hotspot for the laptop & tablet has not caused any of the bolded. I do prefer the usb to usb mini cable connection as the laptop then charges cell phone. Remain confused what these other systems improve upon.
As for 5G, that too is limited to newer hardware. But if the 4G is working, what will the 5G improve on.
I get into weak signal areas and then start following these threads looking for a booster.
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Old 05-30-2021, 08:24 AM   #33
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Does the Mikrotik android app allow selecting/saving scanned wifi networks?

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...android.tikapp

That'd be a great option, just open an app on the phone versus trying to wander through a web interface setup for desktop mode viewing.

No idea, I haven't tried out the app. I've only configured mine through the web UI.
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Old 05-30-2021, 08:25 AM   #34
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So far using the phone as a hotspot for the laptop & tablet has not caused any of the bolded. I do prefer the usb to usb mini cable connection as the laptop then charges cell phone. Remain confused what these other systems improve upon.
As for 5G, that too is limited to newer hardware. But if the 4G is working, what will the 5G improve on.
I get into weak signal areas and then start following these threads looking for a booster.

The separate hardware can be kept on all the time, which may be convenient. But on the weak signal thing, the LTE routers and some of the dedicated hotspot devices have bigger / better antennas than a cell phone. And most can have even better ones attached, so you'll get better coverage in areas with poor signal.
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Old 05-30-2021, 08:49 AM   #35
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Competition is grand , between the 5G and thousands of sats being put in orbit , hopefully the price will come down ,,,way down!
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Old 05-30-2021, 02:23 PM   #36
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...But if the 4G is working, what will the 5G improve on.
in a word: Speed. Again if 4G works fine for you, there is no need or urgency to change anything.
but in terms of speed, where 4G LTE might provide at best 10 MB/sec, 5G could provide 400 MB/sec and actually when they get the mmW bands up and running, could even climb towards a GB/sec.
This is significant for people that work from their boat or many boat YouTubers who upload and download a lot of content, and even for people that do a lot of video streaming to boat TVs for entertainment.
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Old 05-30-2021, 04:42 PM   #37
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in a word: Speed. Again if 4G works fine for you, there is no need or urgency to change anything.
but in terms of speed, where 4G LTE might provide at best 10 MB/sec, 5G could provide 400 MB/sec and actually when they get the mmW bands up and running, could even climb towards a GB/sec.
This is significant for people that work from their boat or many boat YouTubers who upload and download a lot of content, and even for people that do a lot of video streaming to boat TVs for entertainment.
Thanks sledge. I will be needing a new phone in a year or two which most likely will be 5G capable. So in the end I will have it.
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Old 05-30-2021, 08:17 PM   #38
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One caution about frequencies above 2 GHz, they don't pass through objects well and are generally short range, meaning about 1/2 mile without specialized directional antennas. The one advantage 5G does bring on the lower bands that most boaters will use (600-900 MHz) is eventually the base station equipment will be equipped with 5G technology which will improve its data handling capability (more efficient modems). If you want to read more about 5G, this article in PC magazine is the best and most understandable summary I have found. https://www.pcmag.com/news/what-is-5g

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Old 06-08-2021, 03:25 PM   #39
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The current Max Transit 5G had just come out when I bought mine. No carrier had officially approved it yet and it was $160 more than the CAT 18 4G version, so I just bought the CAT 18. So far, performance has been plenty adequate on T-Mobile.
Rumor has it there's going to be a 5G version of the Max BR units, with a faster CPU and more ports. The BR are only rated for 40mpbs VPN throughput (with no encryption, 20Mbps with it on) whereas the Transit specs say 100Mbps/60Mbps without/with encryption. This would make sense as VPN/encryption tends to require more CPU. A BR wit more CPU

But, as you mention, carrier support is yet another potential delaying factor. In theory it's just the radio that has to pass muster, but some carriers are pickier than others.

If these were just $200 units I'd have no hesitation to get whatever's shipping now and upgrade later. But at $800 I'd prefer to get the right unit from the start.
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