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Old 01-24-2019, 01:42 AM   #21
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I consider even an additional 2 days significant. I also think Bermuda gives you a chance to really shake everything down before the longer run. And, don't underestimate the impact of prevailing winds on your boat.
Excellent points! One of the reasons for direct from St Martin is that Later May/early June appears to be a good time for decent highs south and south-west of the Azores - good for motoring through.
I'll do more homework on the Bermuda-Azores run though based on your comments - thank you.

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Add supplies to carry you for 3 weeks, extra spares and parts and equipment, and 4000 lbs of fuel and crew and you're pressing yourself very close to the 9000 pounds and adding 25% in weight. Be sure to carefully check and test those bladders if they've sat unused for 15 years. 15 years is typically considered the life of them. I'd definitely want some bladders, perhaps not all, but want a nice cushion in range.

What size crew do you anticipate?
Excellent points on the bladders - while they've been out of the UV and stored for years, I had better find out exactly what condition they are in! Other than filling them with diesel and using them as a jumping castle to approximate the open ocean, is it possible to pressure test diesel fuel bladders?

If they aren't ok, I notice Vetus no longer make them - would people suggest soft or hard-plastic extra tankage? We probably have the room for either.

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Your boat might be heavy for a catamaran sail boat but quite light for a 50' ocean crossing powerboat.
Me too analytical?!? Noooo... but I did some analysis of other power cats a while back, some of the results are on our new blog.
The displacements of other long range powercats is rather interesting - by long range I have said a range of over 1200nm (some have 6000+nm range). I've definitely only got a small sample, and getting accurate displacement figures is hard to impossible, but here is what I've found (mixing imperial with metric to make everyone feel at home ):
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:56 AM   #22
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Here's what one bladder manufacturer says. You might look for the manufacturer of the ones you have.
13.) Leak Testing: Prior to use, all tank and container type products should be leak tested. This procedure can generally be done with 1/8 psi air pressure and a standard bubble-type leak detector solution. Follow the User
Manual procedure or contact ATL for help. Always rinse and dry the surface after testing.
Note only 1/8 psi as they are not built to handle pressure above just normal expansion of fuel.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:29 PM   #23
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Thanks BandB - that's very useful. Mine are Vetus, who don't make the flexible anymore.
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:54 AM   #24
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50 gallon drums are cheap, and when empty can be discarded if a number of holes are knocked in.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:59 AM   #25
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of course, FF means to say steel drums, not PE drums.
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Old 01-26-2019, 05:44 AM   #26
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We could tow a dinghy full of 1L bottles...

I don't have too much of a concern for fuel - we'll buy new containers if the bladders aren't good enough.
Two engines means a first level backup. What do people use as a second backup mid-Atlantic? Possibly some T-shirts strung up on the targa? I did think of a little 18hp diesel outboard, but they're sooooo expensive!

Going back to the original route question, I've been looking through some historic gribs to look at routes and dates. I can't find and historic actual data though, so I don't know how much difference there is between the models and the reality. Does anyone know anywhere to get some historical real data for north Atlantic for the last 5 years or so, for April-May-June?
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:15 AM   #27
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I'm not a fan of bladders.
While your boat may have been designed for an extra 9,000 lbs, I doubt that considered putting this weight relatively high, on deck, sloshing around.

I'll be curious to see what my pilot charts day about that route in June.
If anyone had Jimmy Cornell's Pilot Charts of the North Atlantic in June, please take a picture and post it.

My book is on Dauntless and I won't be on her until March.
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Old 01-26-2019, 01:05 PM   #28
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Bladders for extra fuel

I have used bladders & had good success - but I secured them, anti-chafed them, plumbed them in with hoses & valves, bleed out all the air, set up an electric transfer fuel pump, etc. & tested them & had them all set up before I left. - Not doing any of that on the fly underway.

Here is the type I used -- ATL - brand. -- all different sized available.


http://www.atlinc.com/pdfs/PillowTan...adders-web.pdf


I mounted mine in the rear of the engine room -- one on each side. - NOT on deck as it can raise the center of gravity to much.

Good Luck on your trip.

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Old 01-26-2019, 01:21 PM   #29
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I would look into the seasonal variances of the Bermuda Azores high. It governs the NA weather in the calmest time of the year (summer). This with the other areas of reference will help you to start with a time frame of the best passage time/date . You may have to split it into 3 passages to take advantage of the weather systems. East coast-Bermuda-Azores-Gib etc.
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:02 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by alfamike View Post
I have used bladders & had good success - but I secured them, anti-chafed them, plumbed them in with hoses & valves, bleed out all the air, set up an electric transfer fuel pump, etc. & tested them & had them all set up before I left. - Not doing any of that on the fly underway.

Here is the type I used -- ATL - brand. -- all different sized available.

http://www.atlinc.com/pdfs/PillowTan...adders-web.pdf

I mounted mine in the rear of the engine room -- one on each side. - NOT on deck as it can raise the center of gravity to much.

Good Luck on your trip.

Alfa Mike
If one must, in the engine room makes sense, though the squat would increase.
Or for our KK42s, I could see them in the second (midships) cabin.
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Old 01-27-2019, 04:20 AM   #31
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Chasing forecasts is predicated on a cruising speed of 6 to 7 knots, 130 to 150 nm/24hr.
I don't know anyone crossing the Atlantic at 15 knots. A sailboat can probably do 12 to 15 in the trade winds.

A Low moves 500 nm/ day. So even if, and that's a big if, the forecast is "right" it can be easily off 150 miles, at which point you zigged when you should have zagged.

I would love to have been able to find that Azores High, but I also can't go 500 miles out of my way to find it.
Hi,

Not trawler, but power boat

Sir Richard Branson and hes team cross Atlantic 1986 3 day, 8 hours and 31minutes, i dont now what is avager speed, but i think +15 knots. Boat is 72 feet "Virgin Atlantic Challenger II"


Video this atlantic cross regords https://youtu.be/yAZht9gDolE


And articel this boat

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...scrapyard.html


An old Viking route is one option, making shorter steps and refuiling fuel



No limits about 50 feet run this route 2016 EU to US boat shows, nice video this trip

NBs
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Old 01-27-2019, 05:11 AM   #32
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I'm not a fan of bladders.
While your boat may have been designed for an extra 9,000 lbs, I doubt that considered putting this weight relatively high, on deck, sloshing around.

I'll be curious to see what my pilot charts day about that route in June.
If anyone had Jimmy Cornell's Pilot Charts of the North Atlantic in June, please take a picture and post it.

My book is on Dauntless and I won't be on her until March.
Definitely want the extra tankage down low. We've got quite a bit of room in the hulls, and most can be towards the centre so not to overload the ends.

I'd love to see the Cornell pilot for June if anyone has one!
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Old 01-27-2019, 05:21 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfamike View Post
I have used bladders & had good success - but I secured them, anti-chafed them, plumbed them in with hoses & valves, bleed out all the air, set up an electric transfer fuel pump, etc. & tested them & had them all set up before I left. - Not doing any of that on the fly underway.

Here is the type I used -- ATL - brand. -- all different sized available.

http://www.atlinc.com/pdfs/PillowTan...adders-web.pdf


I mounted mine in the rear of the engine room -- one on each side. - NOT on deck as it can raise the center of gravity to much.

Good Luck on your trip.

Alfa Mike
Thanks Alfa Mike - definitely put the tankage as low and stable and central as possible.

Can I ask how much extra you had, and what your voyage was?
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Old 01-27-2019, 05:24 AM   #34
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I would look into the seasonal variances of the Bermuda Azores high. It governs the NA weather in the calmest time of the year (summer). This with the other areas of reference will help you to start with a time frame of the best passage time/date . You may have to split it into 3 passages to take advantage of the weather systems. East coast-Bermuda-Azores-Gib etc.
That's definitely something I'd like to see - any idea how to get the information?
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Old 01-27-2019, 07:13 AM   #35
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Just google "Bermuda High" there's huge amount of info on line.
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Old 01-28-2019, 02:17 PM   #36
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I would suggest Chris Parker for weather forecasts. His group forecast for boaters in the gulf, east coast, Caribbean and Atlantic Crossings.

https://mwxc.com
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:47 PM   #37
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Gentlemen,

How about up the East Coast to Saint Johns, Newfoundland and then over to the Azores and finally to Europe. No need for extra fuel on that series of runs. Since you are a powerboat/trawler, no need to consider the winds.
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:57 PM   #38
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Gentlemen,

How about up the East Coast to Saint Johns, Newfoundland and then over to the Azores and finally to Europe. No need for extra fuel on that series of runs. Since you are a powerboat/trawler, no need to consider the winds.
Depends on the time of year.
That was my original route planned for a mid June crossing.
Too much ice off of Newfoundland made us head SE after Nova Scotia, then east to the Azores.
Had I to do it all over again, with Ireland as my destination, I'd probably stick to that northerly route, but wait until mid July.

The later departure would mean no ice issues, but the north Atlantic from mid August on can turn on you.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:10 PM   #39
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Thank you Richard.

Think if you left Saint Johns the ice issue would only be a risk for the first few hundred miles as the water is much warmer the closer you get to the Azores. I have a 44' Nauticat motor sailor and that is a route that we keep considering since we only carry 225 gallons but of course have 2 60' sails. Agreed after being an airplane pilot for 30 years that the bladder tanks could shift at the wrong time and OH BOY we got a bad weight and balance issue.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:52 PM   #40
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Good thought - half the distance to Azores, and even Ireland direct is even shorter. I think MV Dirona did this, but starting Nova Scotia? A leetle colder perhaps (icebergs?! ffs!! lol)
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