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Old 08-31-2017, 11:06 AM   #261
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Your assertions are addressed and refuted in the links. Texas lawmakers voted no on the passing bill 62-46 Senate and 241-180 House. 22 Texas Republicans voted no on the reworked Sandy Bill. The Houston C. article covers what happened better than Cruz's alternative facts website.
I do not know where you got your facts, but they do not seem to be supported by factual history, but more by political posturing propaganda from red state politicians attempting to stick it to blue states. I never thought I would cheer Christie on... but oh well, things happen.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:11 AM   #262
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Pascal's wager is not the best paradigm for the current debate on what to do about fossil fuel usage. Pascal reasoned that since if God exists and he didn't accept Him, his loss would be infinite since he would lose heaven, while if he did believe in God and He didn't exist his loss would be nothing, since permanent death would be his lot regardless of what he believed in. Therefore, it makes no sense not to believe in God.



With Manmade Global Warming, many are proposing that we spend $trillions to get, at least according to peer reviewed journals and the UN, nearly no change in the climate "just in case" the theory turns out to be correct. That is the polar opposite of Pascal's wager. Just sayin....

Polar opposite? If man made climate change exists and we don't accept it, there is the possibility we will destroy the earth. Sounds pretty much like Pascal's infinite loss to me. If you do believe in climate change and do what you can to minimize it, but it turns out to have been false, what have you lost, other than a little money? Isn't that money well spent to give the earth a fighting chance? I'd rather spend it on that than bombs, war and a wall we don't need. So to me, it's a win/win similar to Pascal's reasoning-- it makes no sense to not believe in man made climate change.

But I'm not going to argue.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:29 AM   #263
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Your assertions are addressed and refuted in the links. Texas lawmakers voted no on the passing bill 62-46 Senate and 241-180 House. 22 Texas Republicans voted no on the reworked Sandy Bill. The Houston C. article covers what happened better than Cruz's alternative facts website.
I do not know where you got your facts, but they do not seem to be supported by factual history, but more by political posturing propaganda from red state politicians attempting to stick it to blue states. I never thought I would cheer Christie on... but oh well, things happen.
I think we are beginning to cross a line here. I want to give y'all props for debating political issues and being civil and respectful to one another. But now we are at "my facts are better than your facts".

So I ask y'all to please back off the politics a little bit. There have been some excellent posts and observations without arguing "me against you". But we are getting close.

Cardude, I hope you are doing well and all of your assets are ok!! We are blessed to be high and dry and have been donating and volunteering for those less fortunate than us. In fact, we are out the door to go volunteer some more! Please take a look at the TV and see how people are doing down here. Our "event horizon" has been reduced to day by day. For some even hour by hour. Strangely, when those event horizons have been reduced, that is when you see the love for mankind rise to the surface. And there is plenty of that going on down here!!! So be kind to each other!!! Respect each other!! And don't forget, we are all human!!! And love is ultimately what makes this humanity thing work!!!!
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:34 AM   #264
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And don't forget, we are all human!!! !
Wifey B: And don't forget those that aren't human. All the animals.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:40 AM   #265
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Amazing how little rain 4 to 5 inches now seems. We're in TN now. Here are the latest rainfall forecasts through Saturday from NOAA's Weather Prediction Center:

3 to 5 inches of rain is forecast from eastern Arkansas to northern Mississippi, western/central Tennessee, western/central Kentucky and southern Ohio.

6 to 10 inches could locally fall from western Tennessee and northern Mississippi to southwest Kentucky.

In Nashville, 4 to 5 inches of rain and flash flood warnings. Normally that wouldn't alarm people except those here all remember a year ago when they had tremendous damage from floods.
It's ironic, but we left Houston in March, and we're at Lake Barkley, thinking we missed the hurricane. Now we learn that the aftermath is headed for us with lots of wind and rain tomorrow. I'm certainly not complaining, since we'll only get a fraction of what they got at home. It's wierd, though.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:42 AM   #266
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Wifey B: And don't forget those that aren't human. All the animals.
Amen to that. I worked the animal station at the shelter the other day!!! Lotsa sweet doggies and kitties and birds out there.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:57 AM   #267
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Art mentioned the laws of physics which are exact but climate change or global warming is not 100% supported by facts when it is I'll support it.

I made two donations to the Texas victums, one to human relief and one to pets. I was able to use my CC so I even got 2% back. I'll probably donate more especially if Trumps tax cuts get passed.
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:17 PM   #268
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It's ironic, but we left Houston in March, and we're at Lake Barkley, thinking we missed the hurricane. Now we learn that the aftermath is headed for us with lots of wind and rain tomorrow. I'm certainly not complaining, since we'll only get a fraction of what they got at home. It's wierd, though.
Yes, we're flying to Texas tomorrow for a few days and leaving the others here on our boat and they'll be the ones getting the Harvey residuals.
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Old 08-31-2017, 01:15 PM   #269
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I think we are beginning to cross a line here. I want to give y'all props for debating political issues and being civil and respectful to one another. But now we are at "my facts are better than your facts".

So I ask y'all to please back off the politics a little bit. There have been some excellent posts and observations without arguing "me against you". But we are getting close.

Cardude, I hope you are doing well and all of your assets are ok!! We are blessed to be high and dry and have been donating and volunteering for those less fortunate than us. In fact, we are out the door to go volunteer some more! Please take a look at the TV and see how people are doing down here. Our "event horizon" has been reduced to day by day. For some even hour by hour. Strangely, when those event horizons have been reduced, that is when you see the love for mankind rise to the surface. And there is plenty of that going on down here!!! So be kind to each other!!! Respect each other!! And don't forget, we are all human!!! And love is ultimately what makes this humanity thing work!!!!
Point taken and noted. You are right. I think we all agree that political hay making is inappropriate on the backs of disaster victims. Not the time, place or reason. No matter what political stripe, we are Americans first, at least I like to think so.
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Old 08-31-2017, 01:32 PM   #270
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And now back to the subject at hand . . . . thanks for the re-direct John

By yesterday morning, the water subsided enough to allow access to the marina by car. The power, which we lost Sunday afternoon was still off until late in the day.

We lost a couple of boats on my pier and when I asked the staff, it appears we lost 18 or 19 boats throughout the marina.

Interestingly, none appear to have been lost to wind or storm surge. They were lost because of drainage, exhausted batteries, failed bilge pumps, existing hull/equipment leakage etc. Three days without power and 49"-50" of rainfall was what it took. Boats that were properly prepared suffered NO damage. Some who left 12V refrigerators and ice machines running returned to depleted house batteries and maybe a little more water in the bilges than normal, if the the bilge pumps were connected to those banks.

My boat thankfully has huge cockpit drains and even with many hatches in the exposed cockpit, my bilges were bone dry and the batteries were still fully charged.

I really feel for those who were closer to landfall and had to deal with wind and storm surge as well as the rainfall.

A little preparation and forethought goes a long way.
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:33 PM   #271
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They have just opened the gates a further 3 feet on Toledo Bend Reservoir. They have been evacuating people near the Sabine river all night long. This is going to be worse than the floods last year, by at least a foot.

For us, we just got power back but expect to loose it again when the Toledo water gets here tonight. We can handle another 4 foot so should be just fine. The hundreds of thousands around us, are already under water so this additional threat is just mind boggling. It just seems there is no end to this thing!
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:49 PM   #272
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I just saw that Beaumont Hospital is evacuating patients, moving them to Pasadena. The death toll, I'm afraid is going to be much higher than any current numbers when all is said as more bodies are found and as many die from conditions they were being treated for, some at home, some at nursing homes and some at hospitals that were evacuated. The picture of all those at a nursing home with water to their waist is still in my mind. To anyone with a suppressed immune system, all those on immunosuppressants post transplant or for autoimmune diseases, this could be tragic and to those dependent on dialysis or oxygen or feeding systems.

I know Port Arthur was encountering flooding in their emergency shelters.
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:50 PM   #273
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They have just opened the gates a further 3 feet on Toledo Bend Reservoir. They have been evacuating people near the Sabine river all night long. This is going to be worse than the floods last year, by at least a foot.

For us, we just got power back but expect to loose it again when the Toledo water gets here tonight. We can handle another 4 foot so should be just fine. The hundreds of thousands around us, are already under water so this additional threat is just mind boggling. It just seems there is no end to this thing!
Also, additional evacuations around the Barker Reservoir.
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:45 PM   #274
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I made two donations to the Texas victums, one to human relief and one to pets. I was able to use my CC so I even got 2% back. I'll probably donate more especially if Trumps tax cuts get passed.

Did I miss it? Did President Trump actually release a tax plan? I haven't seen anything since his bullet points tax proposals from the campaign. If those were passed, my tax rate would drop to %15.

I'd hire someone to wash my boat. Does that count as economic stimulus?
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:58 PM   #275
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Polar opposite? If man made climate change exists and we don't accept it, there is the possibility we will destroy the earth. Sounds pretty much like Pascal's infinite loss to me. If you do believe in climate change and do what you can to minimize it, but it turns out to have been false, what have you lost, other than a little money? Isn't that money well spent to give the earth a fighting chance? I'd rather spend it on that than bombs, war and a wall we don't need. So to me, it's a win/win similar to Pascal's reasoning-- it makes no sense to not believe in man made climate change.

But I'm not going to argue.
If it was a "little money", then sure, why not act like we know what is going on in a chaotic climate system. But it is not a little money, it is a massive amount of money that starves other needed projects that actually would improve the lives of people. The reality is that the effect of carbon sequestration schemes is to raise the cost of energy. The effect of higher costs of energy is that poor people are made poorer. The UK estimates that there may be tens of thousands of unnecessary cold deaths they describe as due to "energy poverty." This poverty is the consequence of policies that are demonstrably going to have no effect on the climate, at least according to data from the UN IPCC, who describe what the reductions in atmospheric CO2 called for in the Paris Accords would be.

The recent tragedy of the Grenfell Tower fire is a case in point. Instead of installing sprinklers at a fraction of the cost, the government clad the building to reduce its "carbon footprint", turning it into a blast furnace when a fire did break out. No sprinklers, and an increase in carbon from a burning building (and people). Does anyone think this is rational?

This scenario of spend massively to get nothing of value is not what Pascal was going on about.

I sincerely hope you and yours have avoided too much disruption. We all wish you well.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:01 PM   #276
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I think we are beginning to cross a line here. I want to give y'all props for debating political issues and being civil and respectful to one another. But now we are at "my facts are better than your facts".

So I ask y'all to please back off the politics a little bit. There have been some excellent posts and observations without arguing "me against you". But we are getting close.

Cardude, I hope you are doing well and all of your assets are ok!! We are blessed to be high and dry and have been donating and volunteering for those less fortunate than us. In fact, we are out the door to go volunteer some more! Please take a look at the TV and see how people are doing down here. Our "event horizon" has been reduced to day by day. For some even hour by hour. Strangely, when those event horizons have been reduced, that is when you see the love for mankind rise to the surface. And there is plenty of that going on down here!!! So be kind to each other!!! Respect each other!! And don't forget, we are all human!!! And love is ultimately what makes this humanity thing work!!!!
Sorry, read this after my last response....
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Old 08-31-2017, 05:19 PM   #277
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Dhayes

So far just percentages that he wou,d like to see and as you know all bill have to originate in congress so no matter what Trump would suggest, as he has done, it will changed and admended by congress but we need a total tax reform and hopefully congress (both parties) will try to get this done. I would be willing to donate more then.
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Old 08-31-2017, 05:42 PM   #278
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Interestingly, none appear to have been lost to wind or storm surge. They were lost because of drainage, exhausted batteries, failed bilge pumps, existing hull/equipment leakage etc. Three days without power and 49"-50" of rainfall was what it took. Boats that were properly prepared suffered NO damage. Some who left 12V refrigerators and ice machines running returned to depleted house batteries and maybe a little more water in the bilges than normal, if the the bilge pumps were connected to those banks.

My boat thankfully has huge cockpit drains and even with many hatches in the exposed cockpit, my bilges were bone dry and the batteries were still fully charged.
I may be imagining things, but I seem to recall a BoatUS article a few years ago that said that most sinking claims were do to just those things you describe. Faulty design, faulty equipment, or inadequate maintenance (simply cleaning drains) results in rain sinking boats.
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Old 08-31-2017, 06:43 PM   #279
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How many climate change nay-sayers here enjoy shellfish, crustaceans, fish that eat plankton, or fish that eat fish that eat plankton?

The oceans absorb about 1/3 of the carbon in the atmosphere which is altering the ph of the oceans...search 'ocean acidification' for more information.

Not a good prognosis for Humanity in general considering how many people rely on the oceans for a large part of their diet, but maybe you'll take a greater interest if it affects your sport fishing?
No responses? Interesting...

This means one of three things:

1) you have been searching how ocean acidification could impact your sport fishing and are now grappling with how this new knowledge requires a complete reversal of your position regarding humans pumping CO2 into the atmosphere,

2) you didn't look into ocean acidification much, and don't really want to abandon your position anyway, or,

3) the fishing is fine right now and you couldn't care less about the future.

Am I close?
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Old 08-31-2017, 07:00 PM   #280
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Ocean acidification sure has not impacted the barnacles that grow on my wheel and rudder...
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