Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-17-2020, 03:50 PM   #61
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,151
wow...for anyone thinking of going through the process....as a former instructor and small vessel pro captain for a couple decades......I suggest viewing most of this thread with a grain of salt.

Way too much bad info to take seriously. Sure there is good info...but double check everything.

Go with a setup like Sea School or a Maritime Academy and carefully read their literature.

When I was an instructor...I was amazed at how little the students retained just a few years out of the course...both subject matter and license/ vessel requirements.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 05:48 PM   #62
Guru
 
syjos's Avatar


 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Sandpiper
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
wow...for anyone thinking of going through the process....as a former instructor and small vessel pro captain for a couple decades......I suggest viewing most of this thread with a grain of salt.

Way too much bad info to take seriously. Sure there is good info...but double check everything.

Go with a setup like Sea School or a Maritime Academy and carefully read their literature.

When I was an instructor...I was amazed at how little the students retained just a few years out of the course...both subject matter and license/ vessel requirements.
Many threads on TF have incorrect info and advice I would not follow. It's up to the person reading the thread to determine what is fact and what is BS.

There is a lot of good information available on TF but the reader has to find them.
syjos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 06:12 PM   #63
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,820
I did Sea School 7 years ago in Charleston and it was a great course with an excellent instructor. I was told however that had I had the "other" instructor it would have been a very different experience.

I Liked it so much, I decided to add the three days to get my Masters lic.
it was 10 days at 10 ? hours a day.
__________________
Richard on Dauntless,
New York

a Kadey Krogen 42 currently: https://share.garmin.com/dauntless
Blog:
https://dauntlessatsea.com
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 06:17 PM   #64
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by syjos View Post
Many threads on TF have incorrect info and advice I would not follow. It's up to the person reading the thread to determine what is fact and what is BS.

There is a lot of good information available on TF but the reader has to find them.
It helps to warn them....the classic not knowing enough to even realize what they don't know.

Many threads go along and aren't too bad..this all of a sudden seem to be overwhelmingly off the mark to me, so I spoke up....as I always have.

So why not suggest going to good sources of exactly what it takes or what is required than listening to some not so exact memories?
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 07:46 PM   #65
Guru
 
syjos's Avatar


 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Sandpiper
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
It helps to warn them....the classic not knowing enough to even realize what they don't know.

Many threads go along and aren't too bad..this all of a sudden seem to be overwhelmingly off the mark to me, so I spoke up....as I always have.

So why not suggest going to good sources of exactly what it takes or what is required than listening to some not so exact memories?
Very true. Same reason people ask questions on TF that the answer is easily available from Google.

USCG regulations for licenses have changed dramatically since I earned mine. Being able to attend a school solely for getting a license and being able to take the test at the school seems simpler than in the past. When did USCG start allowing tests at schools?

I did get a pretty good education at the Maritime Academy. It was similar to a community college where the students could choose classes in a variety of subjects in addition to the core requirements. They had classes available on subjects like diesel engine troubleshooting and repair, corrosion, refrigeration, hydraulics etc. Some classes were a few hours and others two weeks or more.
syjos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 08:09 PM   #66
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,151
LI cant say for sure, but I took my course and test with Sea School in 1999. I believe they had the setup for a few years at least.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 08:52 PM   #67
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldcar View Post
one thing my insurance agent mentioned was if you get into a pickle with that captain's license the insurance companies are much more harsh on how you dealt was the challenge. Denying claims, saying you should have known better! Something to consider? Maybe take the class and don't take the test. Knowledge is power
So, one clown mentions and it's posted as fact. I've heard it said by those who don't have licenses as an excuse and justification. I don't know of any circumstance where responsibility for damages was held against the more qualified. Now the licensed captain is subject to CG oversight of their license but that's entirely separate from insurance claims.

Claims don't get denied because you should have known better. I'd recommend a new insurance agent if thats the kind of information they're giving you.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 09:05 PM   #68
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
wow...for anyone thinking of going through the process....as a former instructor and small vessel pro captain for a couple decades......I suggest viewing most of this thread with a grain of salt.

Way too much bad info to take seriously. Sure there is good info...but double check everything.

Go with a setup like Sea School or a Maritime Academy and carefully read their literature.

When I was an instructor...I was amazed at how little the students retained just a few years out of the course...both subject matter and license/ vessel requirements.
Wifey B: We took our first courses late 2012 and got our licenses shortly after. First were low tonnage and inland and they then worked up. We've taken many courses since then. We've really come to value the school we go to and the personal interaction. Every course I've taken has taught me something new. I hope never to use some of the knowledge (Med Person in Charge, Adv firefighting, rescue) but I'm sure glad to have it. We also got hands on training. We just figured if we were going to spend 8 months a year on the water and cruise 15-20,000 nm a year (less last year and this), we wanted to be as knowledgeable as possible. We still realize we don't compare to two captains we employ with 40 years experience. Still we're very grateful for the professional teachers who have instructed us.

Our training has included an emergency room, a fire fighting facility, a simulator and more, but best of all great instructors. Oh, and I think the tests and exams have all been easy. Maybe the instruction was good. We were also in our first course with people who had been running boats for years and with people who had done online courses. Some sure thought they knew a lot, but alarmed us. Oh and we do hire captains and engineers and we care about their initial and continued education.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 09:50 PM   #69
Member
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
City: Paducah KY, and beyond...
Vessel Model: Tugs / Tow Boats
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 23
I would do the 100 Ton Master course at MPT. I would also do the Towing Assist endorsement for the heck of it.

Fly into Ft. Lauderdale. Rent a bunk room from Neptune Group in one of their crew houses (very nice) for about $30 a night as long as you have a MMD.

Everything is walking distance ... school, food, beer, etc... so no car is needed unless your going to do a Lifeboatman’s course and have to drive to Tampa to launch a davit lifeboat on the Victory Ship.

You might as well do a BST course too and become a real commercial mariner... you never know what doors can open up with good licensing.

MPT has been my go to school for years... I wouldn’t go anywhere else.

MPT also has Career Assistants too... call them and tell them what you want to do, and they will tell you what you need to do. Most courses run concurrent, so you can bang out a bunch of courses in one trip.
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 10:28 PM   #70
Senior Member
 
City: Hawaii
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 275
The 6-Pack or Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels (OUPV) is issued by the US Coast guard and is required for operating 6-Pack charter in US waters. Its requirements are 360 documented "sea days" and the passing of a written exam. When I took the 100-200 ton master's program I believe a "sea day" was defined as 4hrs. continuously underway. Cruise for 2hrs. for lunch then cruise for 2hrs more counts for zero as does staring at 10PM and finishing at 2AM then except for certain types of commercial operations.
ProMaritime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 11:33 PM   #71
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProMaritime View Post
The 6-Pack or Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels (OUPV) is issued by the US Coast guard and is required for operating 6-Pack charter in US waters. Its requirements are 360 documented "sea days" and the passing of a written exam. When I took the 100-200 ton master's program I believe a "sea day" was defined as 4hrs. continuously underway. Cruise for 2hrs. for lunch then cruise for 2hrs more counts for zero as does staring at 10PM and finishing at 2AM then except for certain types of commercial operations.
No.

What counts as a “day”?
• A “day,” as defined by the regulations, is 8 hours of watch-standing or day-working, not to include overtime.
• Only on vessels of less than 100 gross registered tons (GRT): Credit for a full day will only be given for service of 4 hours or more (See 46 CFR 10.107, definition of “Day”). No credit will ever be given for days in which less than 4 hours were served.
• For the purposes of defining sea service requirements, the Coast Guard considers 1 month as 30 days, and 1 year as 12 months (or 360 days).

There is no provision that the service must be continuous. It is 4 hours underway during a day. As to 10:00 PM-2:00 AM that would also count as four hours and a sea day on under 100 tons. A day doesn't have to all be done on a calendar day. That would be saying on a larger boat a 8:00 PM to 4:00 AM shift wouldn't count.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 11:59 PM   #72
Senior Member
 
Ftbinc's Avatar
 
City: Chicago
Vessel Name: Oma
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogan\Manatee
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 138
Mariners learning system. Online/plus books and access to phone help if needed. Up to a year to complete the self paced course. They Procter the exams regionally Both my wifE and I have our 50 ton masters with sailing endorsement. About 690 per person. Would recommend if self study works for you. It didn’t work as well for my wife, but I was able to assist her with what she didn’t understand (mostly navigation, which I’ve been doing for years and years. )

Good luck btw I wouldn’t bother with just a six pack, not with the time.
Ftbinc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2020, 12:24 AM   #73
Senior Member
 
City: Hawaii
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 275
BandB took exception to my response probably because I left out the word "anchor." What I meant to say was:

Cruise for 2hrs. then "anchor" for lunch then, cruise for 2hrs more counts for zero as does staring at 10PM and finishing at 2AM except for certain types of commercial operations.
ProMaritime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2020, 12:40 AM   #74
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProMaritime View Post
BandB took exception to my response probably because I left out the word "anchor." What I meant to say was:

Cruise for 2hrs. then "anchor" for lunch then, cruise for 2hrs more counts for zero as does staring at 10PM and finishing at 2AM except for certain types of commercial operations.
I'm sorry, you're just wrong. Anchor had nothing to do with it. The four hours do not have to be continuous. Do you see continuous anywhere in the regulations? And it does not have to be on the same day. I don't know who gave you that information, but it's just false. Plenty of shifts start in one day and conclude the next.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2020, 08:56 AM   #75
Senior Member
 
City: Edenton, NC
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Commander
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 165
There are schools that provide the course and in-house exam. I did the Master license class in 2017 with Boatwise Marine Training (NH / Boston area) in 2017. Four weeks of all day Saturday and Sunday and two evenings per week. At the end of the class, they do the test (takes one day). You send all the paperwork into USCG and they issue a license based on your actual boating experience (which you document yourself; if it's on your own vessel, you must provide proof of ownership for the period claimed). I would have received a 25 Ton license, but one day on a 50' Hatteras qualified me for 50 Ton. I think current rules require more than one day at the higher level.
jimfrens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2020, 10:41 AM   #76
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,984
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverunderway View Post
I've held a Master's 200 ton and several unlimited all oceans tickets for over 4 decades and neither I nor my employers has gotten one damn thing off insurance because of it.
I bought a GB42 in 1986 and got my Unlimited Tonnage Master ticket in 1988. The insurance premium went down several hundred dollars thereafter.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2020, 12:05 PM   #77
Guru
 
Portage_Bay's Avatar
 
City: Coupeville Wa.
Vessel Name: Pacific Myst
Vessel Model: West Bay 4500
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,415
Warning! Thread drift into insurance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano View Post
I bought a GB42 in 1986 and got my Unlimited Tonnage Master ticket in 1988. The insurance premium went down several hundred dollars thereafter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverunderway View Post
I've held a Master's 200 ton and several unlimited all oceans tickets for over 4 decades and neither I nor my employers has gotten one damn thing off insurance because of it.
Getting insurance issued for an older boat is all over the map. In 2015 I purchased a 1971 40' Tolly. I had to shop hard to find insurance because I had not owned a boat since the early 80s. I was told by the agent at the time the only reason I could get insurance for that old girl was my license, 500 ton, and 41 yrs working under that license. Fast forward to last year when I got rid of the Tolly and purchased a 1983 Californian. Again shopping insurance on an older boat was a challenge but not as difficult because I had had insurance on the Tolly with no claims. That agent said it was a combination of ownership experience and professional license + experience that helped me get a favorable rate.

I don't think the savings is huge and I don't recommend pursuing a license just to save on insurance. I do however feel it is worth the effort for the knowledge and training acquired.
Portage_Bay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2020, 12:07 PM   #78
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,151
Both of my last two boat's insurance insurance were discounted for levels of "eduation/experience".


At some point discounts do top out....so adding more experience, education, etc doesn't change your premium.


Like may last insurance company rated the boat less than a gasser but gave not further discount for having a auto/installed fire extiguishing system.


It too could be based on the vessel size and complexity.


As far as commericial vessels, an agent might have a better answer, but as long as you meet the manning requirement, my guess it is a flat price no matter what qualified captain runs it.


As an assistance tower...the only guy with higher licenses got fired for his inability to run a small boat so his higher license but lack of seamanship on a smaller vessel was a liability.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2020, 01:06 PM   #79
Guru
 
syjos's Avatar


 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Sandpiper
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,315
I received a discount for having a CG license from Boat US. The savings would probably be the same if I had a CG Auxiliary boating course. Maybe?

But getting a license for insurance savings is counterproductive. Not enough of a saving to make up for school, license and the TWIC card plus renewals.

I let my license expire after retiring a few years ago.
syjos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2020, 01:08 PM   #80
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Both of my last two boat's insurance insurance were discounted for levels of "eduation/experience".


At some point discounts do top out....so adding more experience, education, etc doesn't change your premium.


Like may last insurance company rated the boat less than a gasser but gave not further discount for having a auto/installed fire extiguishing system.


It too could be based on the vessel size and complexity.


As far as commericial vessels, an agent might have a better answer, but as long as you meet the manning requirement, my guess it is a flat price no matter what qualified captain runs it.


As an assistance tower...the only guy with higher licenses got fired for his inability to run a small boat so his higher license but lack of seamanship on a smaller vessel was a liability.
Personal experience is we're graded based on qualified captains aboard at all times of operation. No extra credit for unlimited captain running 44' boat. You meet the full standard and that's it.

Now, our close friend has a 52' Riva which we maintain for her. She was not a licensed captain but had completed the coursework, just lacked seatime. Then she had a captain sign off on her capability and she got a discount. She has every thing but the sea time. She asked if her rates would change when she gets her license and was told no, that she was already getting that rate.

As to operating a different size or type boat, there are many unlimited captains, running 150'+ yachts who haven't run anything under 100' in years, sometimes decades. They don't ever even run the tenders. We pulled up to a dock one day in two jet ribs and a very experienced, very skilled captain was amazed at how we were handling them as he'd always heard jets were very difficult to handle. My wife asked him if he wanted to take it for a spin and he said "h...no, how fast does that thing go anyway." When she told him 40 knots, he tried to think of the last time he'd run over 20 knots and it had been decades. Outside of his job, he does not boat.

I think all need to recognize that their experience is helpful but may not be all they need for other purposes. Commercial vs. Recreational, small vs. large, slow vs. fast, inland vs. coastal vs ocean, even East Coast vs. West. When we came from the lake to the coast we approached it as if we had no boating experience. Now on some things our experience did help but we saw that as a bonus, not as a qualification. Docking was probably the single area in which we required very little additional training but that's a small part of captaining.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012