Captains License

[78puget-trawler]

Big difference between a 200 and an OUPV. Today a 200 with STCW and with no restrictions on the license, so maximum, would require 37 days of training plus assessment.

Yes, I understand that of course, was being a little bit facetious.

 

[psneeld]

I think the confusion is...no USCG test...but yes the school gives tests that are approved by the USCG and uses the USCG's bank of questions.

 

[78puget-trawler]

I think the confusion is...no USCG test...but yes the school gives tests that are approved by the USCG and uses the USCG's bank of questions.

Good clarification. Thanks.

 

[BandB]

I think the confusion is...no USCG test...but yes the school gives tests that are approved by the USCG and uses the USCG's bank of questions.

I would add that some of the schools are excellent and even experienced boaters can learn some new things along the way. I'd also encourage building a relationship with a school as they keep up with all the changes. I remember when the STCW requirements were first getting ready to hit for anything other than a national only license. Everyone wanting to know what they had to do. Calling CG and not getting clear answers. However, could go into school and sit down and come out with clear understanding how it applied to you. I know people with 200 Ton who quickly upgraded to 500 because it was about to become more difficult and it created easier path to STCW. There was so much misinformation circulating.

And if you think for a moment that anyone who pays for the course passes and gets their license, think again. Now, they are allowed to come back and do it again. When we took our first class for our initial license, there was one guy in there who was taking it for the third time. Day one my teacher wife was thinking we should help the man. When he returned from lunch drunk and then on day two arrived late and hung over and fell asleep, any thoughts of help other than to a treatment facility were gone. I would say the vast majority who take classes are serious toward them.

 

[Frosty]

Yes but easy if an active boater....the hardest is the recency requirement of 90 days in the last 3 years. That trips up a lot of people ...

I let my license lapse for this very reason. Live a non-boating life for a few years and suddenly 90 days of sea time is an insurmountable mountain! I also realized that I would rather boat only for pleasure. I sometimes miss having it, but that's only mental in my case.

I do remember having to do quite a bit of work to actually compile the sea time. I hadn't boated with the intention of becoming licensed, so I had to go back through logs, contact prior skippers, etc. to build up my paperwork. It was a bit tedious, but necessary. There were stipulations about what makes up a "day" etc.

When I got my original license (50T NC) I went to one of the schools (Ft. Lauderdale) and I felt it was well worth it for three main reasons:

1) They explain some of the idiosyncracies of the test. These are things that might trip you up even if you know the real-life application.

2) It was not only a good brush up, but I learned a lot. I had experience, but not in everything of course. I found the training really useful, and it was fun, too. I went into it not just "to get through it" but to immerse myself and really make the most of it. I still have fond memories of it (good instructor helps here), and of the camaraderie (it's only two weeks, but it's one of those "long" bonding two weekses).

3) The school was accredited to administer the test, so that was convenient, and I got to walk out on air, knowing I had passed. Made the long drive home a lot more fun.

 

[twistedtree]

No test for an OUPV means if you attend an approved school you do not have to take any CG test.

OK, but you have to take the test at the school. And you can do the same fro a Masters too. So test-wise, nothing unique about an OPUV, and tests either way. It's just a matter of where you take it.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I have been trying to get my revalidation STCW done for several months. School closed for covid then I hadn't quarantined for 2 weeks at home so denied entry. Hope to get it in early august...unless second wave shuts things down again in Florida.

 

[BandB]

I have been trying to get my revalidation STCW done for several months. School closed for covid then I hadn't quarantined for 2 weeks at home so denied entry. Hope to get it in early august...unless second wave shuts things down again in Florida.

While they've extended to 12/31 that is really not that long from now. If suddenly all those due these months plus all the ones expiring between now and 12/31 wanted classes, with the reduced class size, no way they could handle it all.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

While they've extended to 12/31 that is really not that long from now. If suddenly all those due these months plus all the ones expiring between now and 12/31 wanted classes, with the reduced class size, no way they could handle it all.

I agree...I also believe the extension dates may get moved back again,although I won't bank on it.Lots of mariners vying for less class renewal spots will force the extension. Coast Guard has been reasonable on this issue so far.

 

[FF]

IN NYC the dinner cruise folks found they have to pay a + 100T captain more than the folks with only a 100t license.

The simple solution was to bring the rudder post fwd 20+ ft and voila the boat would measure at under 100T.

Great fun for the captain in the East River that can run 5k at times.

 

[Portage_Bay]

IN NYC the dinner cruise folks found they have to pay a + 100T captain more than the folks with only a 100t license.

The simple solution was to bring the rudder post fwd 20+ ft and voila the boat would measure at under 100T.

Great fun for the captain in the East River that can run 5k at times.

Rule beaters, get a big boat under 100 Gross tons. Luther Blount of Blount Marine was an early "rule beater" designing and building boats that really should not be under 100 gross tons.

There are a number of reasons to want to build rule beaters. As mentioned a 100 ton master is often cheaper to hire than 500 ton and up. That's as it should be, the bigger ticket demands more expertise, training and is a more challenging license exam. Please, no one, take this as a put down for those with 100 ton credentials. I have sailed with 100 ton masters who were outstanding mariners. And I've sailed with unlimited masters who should not be allowed out from behind their desk.

Another reason for rule beaters is that boats 100 gross tons and over come under stricter construction rules and inspections which increases costs. Here's one that in my opinion it is absolutely silly to have gotten a certificate of inspection of under 100 gross tons.

Royal Argosy
180 ft LOA
42 ft beam
8 ft 6" draft
Gross Tons 91

Royal Argosy | Nichols Brothers Boat Builders
https://www.pinnaclemarine.com/royal-argosy/

 

[psneeld]

The whole system has some flaws...a self propelled barge of more than 100 tons may need a good boat handler, but not much of a manager.

The dinner cruise boat, maybe the opposite.

I was told I could yank around nearly 1 million pounds of rock with a little, underpowered 26 foot tug, even a 26 foot Shamrock assistance towboat...but I couldn't operate and use a 40 foot high powered pusher towboat to properly manage it. Which I could operate but not in commercial towing. Heck, even unlicensed captains can push around a million pounds as long as its less than 26 feet and all withing company ( not for hire).

Even with 15 years of using the wrong equipment by myself, not one minute could be used for sea time....a shame as the tutelage under some of the old timers was only hit or miss anyhow.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

The tug I work on is 198 GRT meaning a 200 ton master of towing can run it in domestic service only. 151' 20' avg draft built in the 1970's with "tonnage" doors, meaning wall panels cutaway and bolted back in some compartments to skirt the tonnage regs. We are grandfathered in under US law... We towed the aircraft carrier JFK from Norfolk to philly in 2008....so a 200 ton master of towing could legally do this tow. We are 800 plus tons in international service, we have worked in the Med, North sea, Pacific and frequently the Carribean... Some of these loopholes have been closed since this boat was built but the point is, don't think documented weight has much to do with displacement.

 

[OldDan1943]

I took the course at Chapman's in Stuart FL. I passed the test but, made a decision not to satisfy the sea hours. (I did have a few captains offer to generate the hours i my log book but, I thanked them and turned down the offer.) If I did get in an accident, they would say something dumb like, "You have your license so you get most of the blame."
The knowledge is far more valuable that the license.

 

[Gulf Comanche]

To be clear...dont get hung up with Jones act...just check the requirements for Uninspected Vessel requirements if all you are looking at is taking up to 6 passengers.

The definition is uninspected vessels for 6 passengers or less but there is still a laundry list of requirements the USCG requires ( country of origin for the vessel included)..... most USCG district's have a pamphlet or book that lists the requirements and CFRs that require them.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2fi1KNLRZWU8du9SoXCqq9

" More than 5 Net Tons less than 100 Gross Tons:
Documented with Coast Guard. Endorsed for "coastwise trade".
Must be U.S. built and U.S. owned."

However, exemptions may be granted if I remember correctly.

I got my license through Sea School in Bayou La Batre, Alabama, a couple years ago. It’s no picnic, 4 parts to the exam, serious business but really interesting. For me, the classroom was the way to go.
Old School was built in Canada so went thru getting the waiver for non-US builds from MARAD. All it allows is up to 12 paying passengers (6 only for basic OUPV), no towing or cargo carrying. Fishing (guiding) allowed as long as the fish not sold commercially. Cost was around $400 maybe more, cant remember. Beware of companies that look like the Coast Guard that will get the paperwork done for you and charge 4 times whatever the MARAD cost is. Check it out on the MARAD site, not a really bad amount of paperwork. Once your application is accepted it’s published in the Federal Register for review and comments/complaints etc. Took about 2 months to get the waiver, but its done now. Drop me a line if I can help.
Mike

 

[syjos]

I got my 25 ton Masters in the early 90's. Went to a Maritime Academy in Seattle for the classroom requirements and used their computers to practice for the Rules of the Road test.

Had to make appointments to take the test at the Seattle USCG Station. Made several appointments in advance in case I didn't pass the first couple times. I'm not positive but I believe that I only had to retake the modules that I failed. We had to take all the modules in two days.

For the Rules of the Road test, they took everything away and the Coast Guardsmen administering the test would watch the test takers from an elevated desk and occasionally walk around the test room. It was all very intimidating. For the other open book tests, we had access to all the books in the test room and any books or notes we had brought with us.

I got the original 25 ton using Seatime accrued pleasure boating and worked that licences up to 100 ton by instructing, delivering and Seatime on Sandpiper. Recording Seatime for pleasure boating is crucial. The CG did spot verify self documented seatime so honesty was wise..

 

[lwarden]

I took the test at the USCG station across from Lindbergh Field in San Diego. It was just me taking the test and I was two weeks shy of my 18th birthday, I had just finished High School. I remember the test being pretty challenging and missed one module on weather. Went back a couple days later to retake it and passed it that time. They issued my license when I went back on my 18th birthday and I was really proud at the time of that accomplishment.
Had my first fishing charter a week or so later in horrible conditions, but that is another story....

 

[Fletcher500]

In the mid 80s we spent 4 straight days taking the unlimited hp/tonnage uscg test if I remember correctly. I then Sailed on tankers As a steam engineer for a short period of time but then shifted shoreside to a non maritime career. My license expired over 30 years ago but I still have it on my wall. A reminder of some great times with my maritime academy classmates I travelled the world with for four years who were the best friends I ever had. I don’t have an interest in any more licenses, but I continue to self educate through reading, periodic on line classes for rules, etc.

 

[TomCat]

Go for the Master (IMHO)

Having my own business and a family I was not able to carve out the time to go to in-person classes and opted instead for an online course. I used Mariners Learning Systems but there are others. I enjoyed their system and the process although I did miss the interaction with classmates that would have been available had I been in a live class.

As others have said, these courses, live or online, only prepare you for the exams (yes, plural.) There is a mountain of other paperwork that you need to wade through and it has to be spot on or the USCG rejects it. I used an independent consultant to review my application packet and advise me before I submitted it. It made a world of difference and was well worth the $$ I paid him.

And I wholeheartedly agree to go for the Master level license. I also went for the sailing endorsement and the towing endorsement so on my exam day I had 7 (!) exams to take. And I'm really glad I did. Literally two days after my MMC arrived in the mail I landed a part-time seasonal driving a boat. And I would not have qualified for that job if I only had the 6-pack (OUPV). Since then I have driven, for pay, boats belonging to other companies including a 40 passenger tour boat, a 20 passenger ferry for bicycles, and two gorgeous Friendship Sloop tour boats. There is great satisfaction in being on the water in Other People's Boats and getting paid for it. I no longer have my own boat but I am spending MUCH more time on the water, I have eliminated the expense of owning a boat, and I'm getting paid for it. Yes, I want to upgrade to 100T and near coastal, but with the Master ticket that I have a world of opportunities has opened up for me.

 

[Iggy]

In my opinion you should skip the 6 pack license and go for the masters. You say you have plenty of sea time and the test for the masters is only slightly longer. Depending on the rating of the vessel you spent most of your sea time on is what determines whether you get a 25, 50 or 100 ton license. The big difference is now you're not limited to six people if your vessel is inspected. Or maybe you might have the opportunity to captain a charter boat or a tour boat or run a ferry. Who knows what the future holds? Might as well be ready with a masters license.

Yep! Its just one more small test!

I used this on-line course https://www.marinerslearningsystem....mWnuDg_ebGBQRLdC2VUP1J86edIvoF1BoCNsUQAvD_BwE

 

[Goldcar]

one thing my insurance agent mentioned was if you get into a pickle with that captain's license the insurance companies are much more harsh on how you dealt was the challenge. Denying claims, saying you should have known better! Something to consider? Maybe take the class and don't take the test. Knowledge is power

 

[gbroughman]

I just got mine

I just got my coast guard license through sea school. The class was great and very informative of things comercial that a private boater does not necessarily know. Included they process your drug test, your physical and help with the filing process. The licensing process is unforgiving. You miss on space or one initial and it all starts again. You will also need a TWIC card. Transportation worker ID card. The hardest thing I found was documenting days at sea. I have owned many boats and crewed on many as well. For each documentation you have to show proof of ownership for boats you owned and ID of the owner of the boat you crewed on. Most of the later in my case have passed away. Good luck. Btw the Jones act would not apply to a six pac charter and your boat has no requirements past safety requirement. What is commonly referred to as a six pac licence means you can use any uninspected boat with only six people. If the boat is or gets a "coastguard certification" you can take as many people as the boat is certified for. Good luck.

 

[Swfla]

I don't believe school is required to take the USCG exam. It wasn't when I got my license 30 years ago. However, going to SeaSchool prepared me to pass the exam. There's a difference between passing the exam and learning to be a Captain. Passing the exam is all you need. Your boating experience has already prepared you to be a Captain. I'm a better learner in person rather than on my own. There's also some work/documentation to keeping your license active and renewed. The whole charter issue of your specific boat is another separate issue that I can't speak to. IRS, read and understand the rules of how long you can run a business at a loss and other pertinent rules. At a certain time point you can no longer be a tax deductible business without showing a profit for one year. Then repeat the cycle.You may get audited but if you followed the rules and understand them, you'll be fine. It happened to me, I was fine.

 

[Bill The kid]

Hi i would not do it on line. i when to a 4 weekend school and hands on and class room learning is the way to do it wright . i am going to go out on a limb and say you will not complete the course on line . i have hear many people try and not finish and be frustrated about the Experience . sorry just telling what i thing thanks. Captain BRrrrrrr

 

[MYTraveler]

if you get into a pickle with that captain's license the insurance companies are much more harsh on how you dealt was the challenge. Denying claims, saying you should have known better!

Maybe I should read my insurance policy (and its conditions and exclusions) carefully, but I buy insurance to protect me from doing something stupid. Same thing with my car -- if I fail to notice a red light (hasn't happened yet) and hit another car as a result, I would expect my insurance company to pay to fix my car (and the other guy's too), even though I should have known better. Do boat (yacht) policies not cover damages caused by the owner's negligence / stupidity?

 

[emilanderson]

Capt Jeff

I didn't read all of the posts but I can absolutely recommend Capt Jeff Sanders. He started streaming the classes online and he usually teaches them at The Center for Wooden Boats (full disclosure I am board president at CWB do I may be a slight biased).

Go here to see his schedule:
http://www.usmaritime.us/index.shtml

 

[rgano]

In my opinion you should skip the 6 pack license and go for the masters. You say you have plenty of sea time and the test for the masters is only slightly longer. Depending on the rating of the vessel you spent most of your sea time on is what determines whether you get a 25, 50 or 100 ton license. The big difference is now you're not limited to six people if your vessel is inspected. Or maybe you might have the opportunity to captain a charter boat or a tour boat or run a ferry. Who knows what the future holds? Might as well be ready with a masters license.

I believe if you go "inspected vessel" that 95% of recreational vessels will not pass. Think the required rail height of 40 or 42 inches as just one of many reasons a boat won't pass. Uninspected is probably best.

This all brings back a lot of memories about the USCG "system" I had to navigate for my license. I had already had command of a vessel in the Navy qualifying for an unlimited tonnage master license, yet I ended up going to a bit of Sea School in San Diego to get used to the USCG way. Then in rapid order I took the 1600-ton Master, Chief Mate Unlimited, and finally the four-day Unlimited Master, all because the USCG doesn't know how to handle somebody coming into their system at such a high level. The antiquated stuff not in used since the 1950s you had to know, like the orders for a rowed boat, and working out celestial sights assuming you are in a lifeboat with no forms yet the huge H.O. 229 book hand (in a lifeboat????!!!) were just silly. reading five words a minute in flashing light took me back to my first summer at Naval Academy. What FUN!

 

[Iggy]

Hi i would not do it on line. i when to a 4 weekend school and hands on and class room learning is the way to do it wright . i am going to go out on a limb and say you will not complete the course on line . i have hear many people try and not finish and be frustrated about the Experience . sorry just telling what i thing thanks. Captain BRrrrrrr

I think it depends on the person. I took my time, went over the info many times and quizzed my self over 4 months. Took the test and past all 5 parts. The rules of the road you need a 90%. The rest is 70% to pass.

 

[foreverunderway]

Hey all,
I'm considering obtaining my captains license for 6 Pack. I've got a tremendous amount of sea experience but just never pursued the license. I'm thinking now is the time as I may begin to do 6 pack charters. Does anyone have a recommendation as to an online company where you can get a good, legitimate captains license? I don't want to get my PhD, just want a respectable license that would be acceptable to the Coast Guard and to Insurance Companies. I've started to do some research online, but wanted to ask this community.
Thank you for any suggestions,Steve

We are a charter boat and can't see any chance of a return to business until at least mid 2021. I'm certainly not taking customers aboard to be in close proximity in my home while there's any chance of anyone being infected.

As a 6 pac (six passengers only) boat, your boat will not need to be inspected so country of origin probably won't matter.
However, don't kid yourself that a 6 pac license will get you any discount on insurance. I've held a Master's 200 ton and several unlimited all oceans tickets for over 4 decades and neither I nor my employers has gotten one damn thing off insurance because of it.
All a USCG license under 500 tons proves is that you can pass a simple multiple choice exam and a child's play plotting test. There isn't even any verification of sea time! The insurance companies aren't stupid and know this.

I'm pretty sure your insurance and maintenance will increase more than your income, at least for a hand full of years (as you build a reputation and a successful advertising campaign), before you see any real income.
You will however, be able to operate a boat for someone else in the meantime, doing charters on your boat as well, but holding a Master's 100 ton will get you work on tour boats for much better money, as you travel around.

 

[Swfla]

I don't believe school is required to take the USCG exam. It wasn't when I got my license 30 years ago. However, going to SeaSchool prepared me to pass the exam. There's a difference between passing the exam and learning to be a Captain. Passing the exam is all you need. Your boating experience has already prepared you to be a Captain. I'm a better learner in person rather than on my own. There's also some work/documentation to keeping your license active and renewed. The whole charter issue of your specific boat is another separate issue that I can't speak to. IRS, read and understand the rules of how long you can run a business at a loss and other pertinent rules. At a certain time point you can no longer be a tax deductible business without showing a profit for one year. Then repeat the cycle.You may get audited but if you followed the rules and understand them, you'll be fine. It happened to me, I was fine.