California newbies - PNW or bust.

[dhays]

There are very few places up here where the currents runs that fast. Even in areas where large volume of water flow through narrow passages, current that fast only lasts for a fairly short period of time. With a little advanced planing these passages can be avoided when there is a large water movement.

Most of the trawlers cruise about 8 knots give or take.... They work just fine...

Excellent point. Most of the time there are high currents in the narrow passes that you don't want to be traversing when they are running fast anyway. In other words, if your 7 knot cruise speed won't make it against the current, you wouldn't want to be traversing it in a 12 knot boat either.

Again, nothing wrong with picking a boat that is capable of faster cruise for a lot of very good reasons, but the currents wouldn't typically be one of them. Very few of the sailboats that are so prevalent up in this area can scrape up 7 knots and do just fine.

 

[sean9c]

IMO,looking for a 44ft-52ft CPMY for $150k is looking for a boat that'll require a lot of work. I'm guessing the cost of transport to the west coast and adding likely a hydronic diesel heating system could top $40k. You're now looking at a big boat for really small money.
Another thing to be cautious of is that a lot of east coast boats with AC's obviously need a genset to run them and have been built up to be genset dependent. So electric appliances and small battery banks. You won't make a lot of friends in a lot of these small coves up here running a genset all the time. Seen a lot of boats come here from the east coast and the new owners end up unhappy having to run the genset so much. So now you're modding everything, adding batteries, new appliances etc.
Not relevant to anything but being from the west coast I know nothing about marine AC other than there sure a lot of boats that come here with AC systems that don't work or have ongoing problems. And they sure take up a lot of space and are not fun to work on. A lot of them get hoed out.

 

[ktdtx]

Welcome to a Great Adventure.
I shopped for a boat for 2-3 years before deciding if I was ever going to "do this" I needed to quit shopping and buy a damned boat!! So, I bought "this damned boat".
It was the one for sale at the time I decided to buy one that met the majority of my wants...but not all of them. I compromised away a few but I had a boat and I had a great 6 months cruising from Anacortes to SE Alaska and back last summer.

Just random thoughts:
1-I have a single engine boat---lots of people doing this trip have the same.

2-you don't use your horsepower to "fight" the currents..you use your tide and current tables to time them.

3-The boats in the PNW are setup (generally) to cruise the PNW...boats from Florida are not. So..you get to ship the boat then get a new anchor, chain, install a heater, etc.

4-I have air conditioners in my boat..never turned them on last summer. I used the Kabola heater regularly.

5-Florida boats in your price range will have endured years of harsh, bright sun..a difficult environment.

6-don't forget Canada--currency exchange is favorable right now.

7-pay attention to taxes...where you buy and where you are going to keep the boat.

 

[CraigC]

I knew that at around $150K, whatever boat I would be getting at that price in the 48-53' range would be something of a project boat. So I went with one that I knew would most likely be of a higher initial build quality than others in the price range. Some things you just can't fix.

I also sat on my hands for a month waiting for more inventory, while some good options were snapped up. It's a seller's market for the higher-quality boats in the mid-100's. I never was able to find that Cheoy Lee in my budget. Missed out on a decent looking Hatteras, waiting for prices to drop. The boat I ended up with, finally paid $10K under asking, AFTER surveys. That said, all situations are different. But not all boats are categorically priced to be sold for much lower than asking.

Also, I learned that just because something shows as available in YW doesn't mean it's not under contract. Most brokers would not show a listing as "pending," because they don't want to turn away prospective buyers while the deal could still fall through during surveys.

Canada is a good option, as Ken said. If you look there, you might as well plan to have the initial work you need done up there, and "meet" (move onto) the boat up there after you make your personal move North. The only decent-looking boat I could find up there around $150K though was the West Bay 45 - there is one still available I think, in Campbell River. We have a forum member who lives up there, who might be willing to check it out for you, as a favor. No idea - I never asked for the favor. Form factor is similar to a Bayliner 4550.

 

[drb1025]

I've had my boat here in PNW for four years. It doesn't have diesel heat, rather three zone reverse cycle heat/AC. I decided to wait a year after purchase to see what I really needed, thinking diesel heat would be at the top of the list. After four years it has moved to the top, but the reverse cycle works just fine on shore power or with the generator. My point is to wait after you buy a boat to see what your priorities are.

 

[Ted]

East coast to West coast?
I priced a move from Fort Lauderdale, Florida to Naniamo or New Westminster, BC
5 or 6 years ago.
It was a 65 foot Pacemaker, using Dockwise(?), the quote was "approximately
$60,000".
Took it out of any reasonable consideration.
Keep looking, you'll come across the one that won't let you turn her down.

Ted

 

[MVDarlin]

I have a nice aft cabin Ocean Alexander. Cruising at 10 knots is a bit optimistic. Recommend 8.5. More practical and more consistent with sea conditions and fuel economy. Check my blog page MVDarlin

 

[MVDarlin]

Recommend you cosider crusing south to the Sea of Cortez first. Also. Good values on aft cabin cruisers in Southern California. They are ptobably at least 10% more expensive in Seattle.

 

[BandB]

East coast to West coast?
I priced a move from Fort Lauderdale, Florida to Naniamo or New Westminster, BC
5 or 6 years ago.
It was a 65 foot Pacemaker, using Dockwise(?), the quote was "approximately
$60,000".
Took it out of any reasonable consideration.
Keep looking, you'll come across the one that won't let you turn her down.

Ted

As a rule of just raw estimate, hauling by ship is going to be about $1,000 a foot.

 

[CraigC]

I heard from my broker that bringing a vessel around on her own bottom might cost around $5/nm for a professional pilot, plus fuel/supplies and return transport for pilot/crew. Stands to reason that multiple crew members would drive up the cost. This might differ based on region. That was for a west coast trip - might be more for Central America (Int'l waters)?

 

[BandB]

I heard from my broker that bringing a vessel around on her own bottom might cost around $5/nm for a professional pilot, plus fuel/supplies and return transport for pilot/crew. Stands to reason that multiple crew members would drive up the cost. This might differ based on region. That was for a west coast trip - might be more for Central America (Int'l waters)?

From Miami to San Diego you're talking a minimum of around 4100 nm and by the time you added in stops all along the way, probably 4500 nm. For a boat at 10 knots that's 450 hours. Traveling 10 hours a day, that would be at least 45 days plus allow a week for the canal, so perhaps 52 days. That would give you a fuel cost in the neighborhood of $13k or so. At $500 per day for Captain and one other crew, that would be $26k. Then add in the cost of transiting the canal, add in the cost of entry into each country along the way that brings your total to $42k or so. Add in transportation for the crew of two and meals cost along the way and you're in the $45-50k range and that's without maintenance on the boat or the impact of the wear of 450 hours. Consistently as I've looked at numbers such as these or transiting the Atlantic, shipping always makes more sense than hiring someone to run the boat there. The only reason for going on it's own bottom on such a trip is for the owner to enjoy all that they can see on the trip. It's a wonderful trip. For any boat that can be trucked, that remains the cheapest way to move it. Highly unlikely it would make sense to spend $40-50k transporting a $150k boat. It could make sense to spend $15 or even $20.

 

[CraigC]

Highly unlikely it would make sense to spend $40-50k transporting a $150k boat. It could make sense to spend $15 or even $20.

Math looks right. For me, as a liveaboard, I also added $2K/mo in opportunity costs (rental home) while waiting for a delivery window from the PNW. Another $10K probably (Dec-Apr). Part of why I decided on a local boat.

If you're just looking at boats with the listing broker for each one, won't that person be quick to point out the positives about a boat, and less likely to acknowledge or dig for the weaknesses/problems? That's part of why I used a buyer broker to show me different boats. Or you could have a savvy veteran boat-owner with you, if you are a first time buyer and/or not already in that savvy veteran category.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

Math looks right. For me, as a liveaboard, I also added $2K/mo in opportunity costs (rental home) while waiting for a delivery window from the PNW. Another $10K probably (Dec-Apr). Part of why I decided on a local boat.

If you're just looking at boats with the listing broker for each one, won't that person be quick to point out the positives about a boat, and less likely to acknowledge or dig for the weaknesses/problems? That's part of why I used a buyer broker to show me different boats. Or you could have a savvy veteran boat-owner with you, if you are a first time buyer and/or not already in that savvy veteran category.

Thank you, Craig
Unfortunately, the couple of so called buyer brokers I talked to were too darn anxious for me to give them a fixed time frame to pull the trigger. One of them wanted a financial statement to avoid "wasting his time with lookie loos".
It was a complete turn off, to say the least.
On the other hand, we have just made this decision a few weeks ago. We don't even know which region will be buying from. The rough sketch of timelines looks like this
Phase1: research online: Nov / Dec / Jan
Phase 2: step on boats locally (socal) and find out what feels right, and why if possible. Dec / Jan / Feb
Phase 3: Line up finances / Attend all relevant boating courses: Feb / Mar / Apr
Phase 4: Visit PNW boats Feb/Apr
Phase 5: Make an offer / Run Surveys / Negotiate final purchase price / do upgrades, repairs, provisions. April / Sept
Phase 6: Secure temporary or permanent marina slip. Find P/T job for the Mrs. in PNW (small animal surgeon) July/Oct
Phase 7: Final setup for the family business to run smoothly via remote from PNW. Aug / Oct
Phase 8: Start boating (weather permitting) Oct/Dec

 

[CPseudonym]

Only 8 phases?

Seems a bit, thin on detail.

 

[CraigC]

Oh okay. Well as a Realtor, if I have to choose between helping someone who wants to buy a house now, or buy a house 5 months from now, I would have to spend more of my time with the former.

Add to that, a $150k 40-50'ish foot boat is the marine equivalent to a somewhat dilapidated old shack (at least in our state), making interest on the broker side even harder to get. Issues not withstanding, I plan to LOVE my old shack, but I know that's what it is - a 38 year old 49000 lb time/money-sucking fiberglass Kirby vacuum that floats.

Had lunch with my broker after I got into contract, he said he had 9 boats in contract at that time, and that you don't really start seeing a good inventory of nice boats until you get to at least the $250K price point. Minimum. There are just too many yacht buyers on the West Coast flying from city to city looking to spend $500-700K, this month.

Don't get me wrong, when I had the $$ in hand and was ready to buy and started working with my broker, I felt respected and well taken care of, saw a few boats that he flat out said were overpriced, I could do better, etc. But after meeting with him a few times, learning his travel schedule, him meeting buyers at the airport, etc., I recognized that it was as if I had walked into a Michelin-starred restaurant, got seated at a white-clothed table, and told the waiter I only had $6.43 cents to spend, what can I get for that?

"Well, we have this old Kirby vacuum in back that we don't much use anymore. It's dated and has a few issues but was pretty well built."

"Wow, how cool is that thing! And it works?? I love it. I'll take it."

 

[BandB]

Only 8 phases?

Seems a bit, thin on detail.

Readers Digest Condensed Version.

 

[IRENE]

Seattle Boat Show

Seattle Boat Boat Show, last of January/first of February, could be worth a few days. They typically put on a fantastic seminar schedule as well, most of which are included in the price of your ticket. We spent a very productive week at the show (coming and going) in 2014.

 

[sunchaser]

Had lunch with my broker after I got into contract, he said he had 9 boats in contract at that time, and that you don't really start seeing a good inventory of nice boats until you get to at least the $250K price point. Minimum. There are just too many yacht buyers on the West Coast flying from city to city looking to spend $500-700K, this month. QUOTE]

Sounds like the broker is trying to talk up the markets. I know for a fact that there are many very nice boats in that price range that are laggard (+3 months) sellers. Brand names like Selene, Nordhavn, DeFever, OA, Hampton.

But, for sure nice well kept boats for a bargain basement price are not easy to find. Some of the savvy TF members have indeed succeeded at purchasing vessels in the size range the OP is considering, maybe not the price range though.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

Oh okay. Well as a Realtor, if I have to choose between helping someone who wants to buy a house now, or buy a house 5 months from now, I would have to spend more of my time with the former.

Add to that, a $150k 40-50'ish foot boat is the marine equivalent to a somewhat dilapidated old shack (at least in our state), making interest on the broker side even harder to get. Issues not withstanding, I plan to LOVE my old shack, but I know that's what it is - a 38 year old 49000 lb time/money-sucking fiberglass Kirby vacuum that floats.

Had lunch with my broker after I got into contract, he said he had 9 boats in contract at that time, and that you don't really start seeing a good inventory of nice boats until you get to at least the $250K price point. Minimum. There are just too many yacht buyers on the West Coast flying from city to city looking to spend $500-700K, this month.

Don't get me wrong, when I had the $$ in hand and was ready to buy and started working with my broker, I felt respected and well taken care of, saw a few boats that he flat out said were overpriced, I could do better, etc. But after meeting with him a few times, learning his travel schedule, him meeting buyers at the airport, etc., I recognized that it was as if I had walked into a Michelin-starred restaurant, got seated at a white-clothed table, and told the waiter I only had $6.43 cents to spend, what can I get for that?

"Well, we have this old Kirby vacuum in back that we don't much use anymore. It's dated and has a few issues but was pretty well built."

"Wow, how cool is that thing! And it works?? I love it. I'll take it."

All points well taken.
Since we are just now starting to get our feet wet (no pun intended), we'll stick to wasting the listing agent's time, only.
Truth be told, I hope to be able to find everything we need, want and fantasize about on a 42'-45' boat. (OUCH!...you know who is elbowing me as I typed that last sentence)

I have my eyes on CABERNET - Poulsbo
Anyone knows anything about that boat? - besides the owner and listing agent, of course

1985 Monk/CHB Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

 

[GANDK2PNW]

Had lunch with my broker after I got into contract, he said he had 9 boats in contract at that time, and that you don't really start seeing a good inventory of nice boats until you get to at least the $250K price point. Minimum. There are just too many yacht buyers on the West Coast flying from city to city looking to spend $500-700K, this month. QUOTE]

Sounds like the broker is trying to talk up the markets. I know for a fact that there are many very nice boats in that price range that are laggard (+3 months) sellers. Brand names like Selene, Nordhavn, DeFever, OA, Hampton.

But, for sure nice well kept boats for a bargain basement price are not easy to find. Some of the savvy TF members have indeed succeeded at purchasing vessels in the size range the OP is considering, maybe not the price range though.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

Brokers = shmokers LOL
There are all kinds. Finding one who will not blow smoke up your ying yang can be just as hard as finding that ideal boat.
We put the responsibility on us to learn as much as possible, so we are as prepared as possible before making any decision.

Brokers and agents that talk up the market are found in real estate, cars, equipment, etc. Boats should be no exception.
During 20+ years of commercial lending, I dealt with brokers and agents who routinely refused to talk to anyone unless their companies grossed more than $50 mill/yr. I do not demonize them, it's the niche the managed to build around their careers. Good for them.

 

[CPseudonym]

Where is the cockpit?

 

[GANDK2PNW]

Seattle Boat Boat Show, last of January/first of February, could be worth a few days. They typically put on a fantastic seminar schedule as well, most of which are included in the price of your ticket. We spent a very productive week at the show (coming and going) in 2014.

Wish we could attend it this year, but her work schedule nixed that. After I saw the seminar schedule I went:
"WOW, Babe we got a ton of stuff to learn about this thing".
It was very helpful to map out all the topics we need know about. We'll find classes, seminars or reliable pros to help us them.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

Where is the cockpit?

LOL,
Don't ask me...I'm just a newbie here.
(AKA...also a clueless idiot)

 

[Ken E.]

As a housekeeping item, once you zero in on the size of boat you'll buy and where you want to keep it, sign up for moorage. I can't speak to slip availability in the Seattle area, Anacortes or LaConner, but we were on the waiting list for 7 years to get a 50' slip in Bellingham. Moorage in BC at Sidney or elsewhere might also be an alternative.

On boat brands, this region was home to both Tollycraft and Uniflite. Even though these are older boats, their build quality justifies buying at a good price and refurbishing. This approach will never make you any money upon resale but will give you a good hull with new systems and hopefully a lot of boating enjoyment. I have gone down this road myself with my current Hatteras. After 12 years of work including repowering, genset, and all subsystems, the boat now takes us up and down to Alaska every year with very few headaches. I am completely upside down in terms of what I have in the boat in relation to its fair market value, but the boat is a longterm hold so I don't care. The value of the boat to me is the utility and trouble-free use it provides.

 

[rjwilliams11741]

Before buying a boat on the east coast check the cost of shipping. About 10 years we had considered having Dockwise take Freedom from Lazaro Cardenas, Mexico to Fort Lauderdale, FL. - the cost was close to $30,000. You also cannot find a shipping vessel to take you from Florida to Seattle - you would have to transit to either La Paz, Mexico or the Vancouver area. Because of the Jones act a foreign flagship cannot take you from a U.S. port to another U.S. port. Even is your new boat is small enough to be shipped by truck they will most likely have to remove the fly bridge and other upper deck items. People we know who have had to have the boat taken apart were disappointed with the end result when it's put back together.

We recently had Freedom brought from Puerto Vallarta to San Francisco by a delivery captain. We had known our Captain for several years and because we had a very loose time frame she made us a deal we couldn't refuse which involved leaving the boat in San Diego for 3 weeks while she made 2 other delivery's. It was a pretty good break in price but we still payed over $15,000 in delivery fees and fuel.

We have owned an aft-cabin in the past and when we decided to buy a cruising boat that was the first thing be put on the don't want list. As one poster noted as you age they really become a pain the behind. We also didn't like the way we had to handle the dinghy on an aft cabin vessel. We really appreciated the cockpit and saloon on the same level. We also really came to appreciate our pilot house rather than just a lower helm.

There are a lot of good boats on the west coast that are equipped for the west coast. If you do buy one on the east coast consider bringing it through the Canal yourself. The coast of Central America, Mainland Mexico and the Sea of Cortes are great places to cruise (we did it for 10 years). The Baja Bash is a bit of a problem but if you pick the correct time of year and watch your weather window even that part of the cruise can be quite enjoyable.

 

[CPseudonym]

1. Choose and buy a suitable trawler: 44'-52' CPMY, aft cabin, twin diesels capable of cruising at 10+ knots.

Didn't mean to sound obtuse with my question but you said in your opening post to desire a 44'-52' CPMY or CockPit Motor Yacht. The boat you posted the link to lacks anything resembling a cockpit.

What's important when seeking a new to you boat is defining the mission it is to fulfill with absolute maximum clarity. Then define the "Must Have" items for all parties that will be using the boat to be happy and enjoy it. Then stick as close to the must haves as possible with minimum deviation.

Assuming you've done this already posting a first boat lacking a cockpit seems to deviate pretty far from your script. Compromise is obviously inevitable however you need to be methodical in your research to keep from looking at every boat in the Western Hemisphere.

Enjoy the hunt.

 

[dhays]

One suggestion that usually comes up and I may have missed is to charter a few boats. It doesn't sound like you are your wife have a lot of experience. Chartering will give you some experience as to the types of boats and the features that you may really want. Charter an aft cabin boat, then charter a pilothouse boat with a forward cabin. It doesn't take long to suddenly have your current preferences confirmed or completely reversed. The cost of the charter could be cheap compared to the cost of purchasing a boat that doesn't fit your needs as well as it might.

 

[sunchaser]

I wasn't aware that stairs on a boat were a detriment. Keep seeing all these articles about staying in shape while boating, climbing a few steps seems a positive. Try climbing to the PH on a Nordhavn! Whew, but only seems to have caused a sales boom.

Also, what aft cabin vessels are you referring to when you say dinghy handling problematic? Works great on ours.

 

[CPseudonym]

David raises an excellent point. I admit to having not followed this thread closely but if you haven't chartered a couple different boats for at least a week then by all means stop looking at boatporn on yachtworld. The PNW is blessed with many charter opportunities. You might even discover one or both of you do not like boating at this level and that's far cheaper to find out through charter than purchase and resale.

Step carefully in your size and price range, there's hidden pitfalls laying in wait for newbies.