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Old 12-25-2017, 09:40 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
It's my impression that most of these cards are good for life? The states that I have looked at will all take my USCG current masters (captain's license ) license in place of their card. It seems that if I let my license lapse, it's no longer a valid substitute. Are others reading it that way also?

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Looks like NJ is $6 a year, forever
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:04 PM   #62
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I think I posted earlier, the beauracratic wheels just get close, they never seem to hit the nail squarely on the head as there are always loopholes and the line gets drawn arbitrarily someplace.
And the point is they've made progress. Started with nothing required to operate a boat. Little by little progress has been made. Not like I'd do it if I had sole control but sure a lot better than nothing. I wish there was just one National certificate but we can't ever agree on that. Some people would say not the business of the Feds and interfering with states, some would say another example of over regulation, some would say not strong enough, we want more and a few would say it was ok.
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:15 PM   #63
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Looks like NJ is $6 a year, forever
There is no fee for the NJ State issued Boating Safety Certificate. They have NO expiration date.
Do not be confused with the NJ Non-Tidal Boat License issued by the NJMVC. That is ONLY for operating a powerboat in NON-TIDAL waters (lakes, rivers) and is nothing but an outright money grab fee. Not sure where you are getting the $6/year.
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:39 AM   #64
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So if you boat in both tidal and nontidal in NJ do you need both or is there one that is a higher level and satisfies both?

Seems sort of analogous to having a separate DL for interstates and one for other roads. Maybe one for urban areas and they all have separate fees... just pay a separate fee... seems I've heard that a lot lately
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:44 AM   #65
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Its easy, the non tidal thing is really just a tax.

When you renew your drivers license, you present the generic boater safety card, pay the fee and they put it on your drivers license.

Yes it is a PIA to carry both, but there are so few lakes and rivers in NJ that allow powered boats where you need it, it only affects a small percentage of boaters.
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:42 AM   #66
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I wish there was just one National certificate but we can't ever agree on that.
There's actually progress on that. There's an unfortunately-named organization called NASBLA (National Association of Safe Boating Law Administrators) which consists of representatives of all the states that care enough to send a delegate, as well as private organizations like BoatUS.

Every state that I've heard of which requires boater education also requires NASBLA-approved content. Probably the biggest variable is which NASBLA-approved courses are accepted.

There's also been a lot of movement toward standardized boating laws. Ages for requiring life jackets are moving into alignment. Requirements for things like bells, anchors and radios are still all over the place, but they're starting to converge.

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Seems sort of analogous to having a separate DL for interstates and one for other roads.
It's more akin to states being allowed to collect highway tolls, while other impediments to interstate transportation are prohibited by federal law.

Federal jurisdiction trumps state jurisdiction in many ways on "navigable" waterways (navigable from the sea, or on state boundaries.) Otherwise I'm quite sure NJ and other states would impose many more fees, taxes and restrictions. NY and VT are already known to try to (illegally) enforce their holding tank restrictions on Lake Champlain, a federal waterway.

Whether or not you like the federal government, you should be very thankful they sometimes put a stop to state over-reach.

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Its easy, the non tidal thing is really just a tax.
Right.
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:44 AM   #67
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There is no fee for the NJ State issued Boating Safety Certificate. They have NO expiration date.
Do not be confused with the NJ Non-Tidal Boat License issued by the NJMVC. That is ONLY for operating a powerboat in NON-TIDAL waters (lakes, rivers) and is nothing but an outright money grab fee. Not sure where you are getting the $6/year.
This is what I read: BOATING LICENSE APPLICATION PROCESS
A boating license can only be applied in person at the MVC Agency. To get the license, you must be at least 16 years old and need to:

Submit proof of completion of the boater safety course.
Submit a letter of parental consent if you are under 17 years of age.
Complete the required 6-point ID verification process.
Pay the license fee of $24 for a new license or $16 for an endorsement on your existing driver license. Payment is accepted in cash, checks, money order, and credit/debit cards (American Express/MasterCard/Visa).
RENEWAL
The boating license shall expire four years from the last day of the month in which the license was originally issued and every four years thereafter.


this is where I read it:
https://www.dmv.com/nj/new-jersey/boating-license

Yep, I'm confused. This "MVC" is motor vehicle (government), but the website is private??, I read.
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:54 AM   #68
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This is what I read: BOATING LICENSE APPLICATION PROCESS
My understanding is that most states chose NOT to call it a "boating license," but rather, a boater education requirement.

A license is something that requires renewal on some regular basis, which opens it up to becoming a source of revenue. Remember that boaters are a minority, and the majority rules. Who do you think the legislature is going to turn to when they need more cash? It's politically easy to crank up the fees on "those rich boaters."

An education requirement presents less opportunity for abuse.

It doesn't surprise me that NJ chose the word "license."
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:55 AM   #69
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I'm not sure but it may be like NY.
There are different ways to be in compliance and what you need to carry to prove it.
In NY you can take a test from a State approved entity and receive a NY boater card. Or hold a USPS / USCG certificate. (These can not be used to obtain the NY issued card) You can also apply to have a driver license modified to include the boater endorsement which you can carry instead of the other card/certificates. Different and separate fees apply...of course.
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:13 AM   #70
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My understanding is that most states chose NOT to call it a "boating license," but rather, a boater education requirement.

A license is something that requires renewal on some regular basis, which opens it up to becoming a source of revenue. Remember that boaters are a minority, and the majority rules. Who do you think the legislature is going to turn to when they need more cash? It's politically easy to crank up the fees on "those rich boaters."

An education requirement presents less opportunity for abuse.

It doesn't surprise me that NJ chose the word "license."
On the other hand, a "boating license" is something that can be revoked for serious violations (such as drunk boating) while a safety card cannot be revoked.
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:21 AM   #71
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On the other hand, a "boating license" is something that can be revoked for serious violations (such as drunk boating) while a safety card cannot be revoked.
Nope, it sure can and is definitely durrendered in BWI cases, and is supposed to be in DWI cases.

It can be revoked for other reasons too, all at the call of the judge. In NJ at least.

In NJ, the license is just an endorsement on your drivers license for operating in fresh water.

You have to have a boaters safety card to get the endorsement, but only that and some money. To operate in fresh water (technically non-tidal waters) you need to have and carry both.


To operate along the coast, all you need is the boaters safety card, which the state makes no money on as it is almost entirely taught by private companies who make money and the USCGAUX and Power Squadrons (I guess).

But make no mistake about it, it can be seized by the state.....technically it cant be revoked as it can be returned by the judge at his call.
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:46 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by diver dave View Post
This is what I read: BOATING LICENSE APPLICATION PROCESS
A boating license can only be applied in person at the MVC Agency. To get the license, you must be at least 16 years old and need to:

Submit proof of completion of the boater safety course.
Submit a letter of parental consent if you are under 17 years of age.
Complete the required 6-point ID verification process.
Pay the license fee of $24 for a new license or $16 for an endorsement on your existing driver license. Payment is accepted in cash, checks, money order, and credit/debit cards (American Express/MasterCard/Visa).
RENEWAL
The boating license shall expire four years from the last day of the month in which the license was originally issued and every four years thereafter.


this is where I read it:
https://www.dmv.com/nj/new-jersey/boating-license

Yep, I'm confused. This "MVC" is motor vehicle (government), but the website is private??, I read.
Yes it is confusing. That is a private website and mixes certificate, license and boater safety card all together. Then so does NJ!!!

From the NJMVC site:
"The Motor Vehicle Commission (MVC) issues motorboat and personal watercraft licenses for use on fresh, non-tidal waters or lakes, creeks or rivers not affected by tidal conditions. A boat license and New Jersey Boat Safety Certificate are required to operate a power vessel or personal watercraft - jet ski or wave runner - on non-tidal waters of New Jersey. A boat license is not required for non-powered vessels.

Step One: Complete a boating safety course
For any power motorboat operation on tidal waters, you must successfully complete a boating safety course approved by the New Jersey State Police (NJSP) to receive a New Jersey Boating Safety Course Certificate. Visit the NJSP Marine Service Bureau website for full details.

Additional information is available:

Download a copy of the Boating Safety Manual

Step Two: Get an initial motorboat or jet ski license
You must be at least 16 years old. If you are under the age of 17, you need to present a letter with parental or guardian consent.

Applicants must visit a motor vehicle agency with:

New Jersey Boating Safety Course Certificate
6 Points of ID
Pay the $18 license fee"

The above is all about the Non-Tidal License (FEE)

Now the NJ Boating Safety Certificate is issued by NJSP only.
Read about it here:
Boating Safety Certificate | Frequently Asked Questions | New Jersey State Police

What drives me nuts as a NJ taxpayer is the DMV is already equipped to do everything the NJSP does with the BSC.
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Old 12-26-2017, 02:36 PM   #73
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Interesting side note on "revocation." I believe in the states that require boater education, your "right to operate" a vessel can be revoked (such as for DWI or BWI.) Not your boater education certificate.

Also interesting is use of the term "right" instead of "privilege," which is used relating to motor vehicle licences. I'm no lawyer, but to me the two words have distinctly different meanings, in that the former is harder to revoke than the latter.

The concept that driving a car is a "privilege" that can be revoked almost on a whim was drilled into me way back in drivers' ed class.
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Old 12-26-2017, 03:36 PM   #74
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I was asked by my insurance company what boating experience I had when I applied for insurance. I told then I held a Master Unlimited, USCG License, and the next question was what small boat experience I had. I then told them that I also held a Master of Sail 100T all oceans. That satisfied them that I did have small boat experience. I guess with my licenses that I don't need to pass the CA. boaters test?
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:34 PM   #75
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Hmmm, I wonder if this has any effect on owner/operators of documented vessels.
$29 sounds like Calif has just figured out another tax.

I do carry a card from Chapman, says I took and passed the Captain's exam. I elected not to get my Captain's license for a number of reasons. The primary reason is, in case of an accident, the lawyers might say, "You should have known better because you have your Captain's license." The maritime courts always distribute the blame and they would, no doubt, give more blame to the person holding a captain's license. Reasoning, 'You did not take all actions necessary to avoid the collision.', or something close to it.
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:32 PM   #76
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Hmmm, I wonder if this has any effect on owner/operators of documented vessels.
$29 sounds like Calif has just figured out another tax.

I do carry a card from Chapman, says I took and passed the Captain's exam. I elected not to get my Captain's license for a number of reasons. The primary reason is, in case of an accident, the lawyers might say, "You should have known better because you have your Captain's license." The maritime courts always distribute the blame and they would, no doubt, give more blame to the person holding a captain's license. Reasoning, 'You did not take all actions necessary to avoid the collision.', or something close to it.
An old wive's tale rumor which has never been proved as true. As an experienced operator they'll hold you to the same standard. In fact, even if not experienced, if you're at fault they may cite the lack of experience as a contributory fact. Ultimately it's your actions that are going to lead to liability.

I'll toss one other thing out. As a licensed captain you can get E & O insurance, which as an unlicensed operator you cannot.
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Old 12-27-2017, 03:03 AM   #77
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I expect to be passed (reunited with the universal system of molecules) when the California law applies.
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Old 12-27-2017, 05:39 PM   #78
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The good news is that the 50 states (and the District of Columbia) seem to be moving towards increasing boater safety.

The bad news is, they are doing it in 51 different ways.
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Old 12-29-2017, 01:49 AM   #79
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It does.
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:37 AM   #80
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The good news is that the 50 states (and the District of Columbia) seem to be moving towards increasing boater safety.

The bad news is, they are doing it in 51 different ways.
Yes, just like concealed weapons permit.
All states are different and some states wont accept another states's cards unless you complete their course.
Just another way to collect money.
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