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Old 12-19-2018, 03:11 PM   #21
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In the image posted earlier, the canister is bulkhead mounted with the can on top. How do you change the filter unit without dripping the contents? Drain it back in the sump?
Ah...the oil is continuously draining back to the sump, so when you remove the outer white bowl by unscrewing the nut on top, there is the centrifugal bowl within. Take off another bolt and you can clean the inside of the centrifuge. When you're doing this, any excess oil has drained back to the sump already.

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Old 12-19-2018, 04:54 PM   #22
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Make sure you have enough oil pressure once you put this in service. Most engines that use these have an abundance of oil pressure to drive a centrifuge, so no big deal. Not sure if that NL has such an abundance.

Also, if running a 20kW, that is a LOT of power for a trawler type boat. Make sure you load it up enough for it to burn clean. Seen too many gennies too big for the boat get glazed liners from running too light a load. It does not need to run big load all the time, but at least say 25% at high load, about 75% should do it.

I have done way more repairs on gennies from light load running than wear from dirty oil.

In fact, I don't think I have ever repaired a pleasure type marine engine due to dirty oil related wear.
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Old 12-19-2018, 05:16 PM   #23
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Make sure you have enough oil pressure once you put this in service. Most engines that use these have an abundance of oil pressure to drive a centrifuge, so no big deal. Not sure if that NL has such an abundance.

Also, if running a 20kW, that is a LOT of power for a trawler type boat. Make sure you load it up enough for it to burn clean. Seen too many gennies too big for the boat get glazed liners from running too light a load. It does not need to run big load all the time, but at least say 25% at high load, about 75% should do it.

I have done way more repairs on gennies from light load running than wear from dirty oil.

In fact, I don't think I have ever repaired a pleasure type marine engine due to dirty oil related wear.
Yep, it's way too big, but when I bought her as an empty hull, there it was. Not hooked up to anything, but I wasn't going to remove it and replace it with a smaller one.

When the genset is on, we're pushing about 5 kw to the lithium bank and making water, running the polishing motors, and doing laundry or cooking when possible. Still not really enough, but hopefully enough to keep it from running into low load problems. Other than getting a bigger water maker, which I wouldn't mind having, I'm not sure what to do otherwise. Klieg lights?

On the oil pressure the orifices that drive the centrifuge are pretty small and the pressure seems ok. But that's a good point. I put a little shut off valve on the supply to the centrifuge so I should do a comparison with it open or closed and see what impact, if any, it has on oil pressure. How much of a drop would be a concern?
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Old 12-19-2018, 05:28 PM   #24
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If oil pressure drops from 60psi to 50 or 40, should be ok. If it drops to 15-20psi, I would not use it. Check with oil hot, after a good run at load.

If you throttle the supply oil, bucket rpm will drop and it will not do much settling.
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Old 12-19-2018, 05:33 PM   #25
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If oil pressure drops from 60psi to 50 or 40, should be ok. If it drops to 15-20psi, I would not use it. Check with oil hot, after a good run at load.

If you throttle the supply oil, bucket rpm will drop and it will not do much settling.
Thanks Ski. The drive orifice is only about 1/64th of an inch, so I hope I won't see much of a drop, but I'll certainly let everyone know if it does.
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:45 PM   #26
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Sorry, I don't see it. I can see using it if you are running your boat commercially or have a depreciation concern but for recreational boaters? But like every other type of boat voodoo like anchor size or synthetic oil or stern thrusters, you will do whatever your dad did, or your buddy does and you will be content.

What's wrong with that?
So, why filter the oil at all?
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Old 12-24-2018, 02:30 PM   #27
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Delfin, nice installation. One important question, is the board on which the unit is mounted faired and Awlgripped, or is it a one part paint;-) Seriously, thank you for not using Starboard.

Seriously again, I'm an advocate of bypass filtration. There are some very interesting studies proving its value. Some have asked, why bother if you aren't extending oil drain intervals. In short, if bypass filtration removes soot and other contaminants from crankcase oil, keeping it from turning black, it means a cleaner running engine and less wear, less opportunity for restricted oil flow, sludge and varnish build up.

I wrote an article on the subject a few years ago, drawing on some of the aforementioned studies, I believe a photo of your Puradyne unit is included. http://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp...r-FinalOpt.pdf
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Old 12-24-2018, 02:47 PM   #28
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Delfin, nice installation. One important question, is the board on which the unit is mounted faired and Awlgripped, or is it a one part paint;-) Seriously, thank you for not using Starboard.

Seriously again, I'm an advocate of bypass filtration. There are some very interesting studies proving its value. Some have asked, why bother if you aren't extending oil drain intervals. In short, if bypass filtration removes soot and other contaminants from crankcase oil, keeping it from turning black, it means a cleaner running engine and less wear, less opportunity for restricted oil flow, sludge and varnish build up.

I wrote an article on the subject a few years ago, drawing on some of the aforementioned studies, I believe a photo of your Puradyne unit is included. http://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp...r-FinalOpt.pdf
One thing I find interesting is that the CAT has a Puradyn, and it filters out down to 1 micron, yet the oil still gets black. This tells me that even teenie tiny particles that won't cause wear will still color the oil, so while I would like it to also be clean looking, it probably is clean running. I suppose it's possible the filter isn't working as advertised, but I doubt that given the construction of the filter and the stack of filtration material the oil is forced to go through to get back to the sump. I'll be curious to see whether the centrifugal filter gets all the carbon and keeps the oil looking clear, but I gather people say it does, so we'll see.

BTW, I think everyone appreciates your posting your always informative articles, so please keep doing that when you can. Incidentally, I disconnected the Puradyn heater element mentioned in your article that they say is supposed to evaporate water. The water is designed to exit a drip tube, but I couldn't keep it from dumping oil and I never saw any water. When I called the factory, the technician basically said just disconnect it, so I got the firm impression it didn't work all that great anyway.
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Old 12-24-2018, 03:14 PM   #29
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I have been using this and other systems for over 20 years. Have an oil analysis carried out before you change your oil, the lab report will provide valuable information not just about the oil but also what is going on internally. I have a fleet of over 240 Emergency vehicles and a 40-foot fireboat that are all equipped with this system. This is money well spent as it will extend the life of oil and protect your engines from wear.

The average cross-section of a human hair is 50 microns. The human eye cannot see anything smaller than 40 microns in size this should give you perspective. I have a portable system I use to polish diesel fuel when the boat is on the hard. The unit operates using a 12 Volt battery, the best part is you do not have to disconnect any lines it is all done via the fuel fill hose. Kudos to you and your forward thinking.
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Old 12-25-2018, 02:58 PM   #30
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I remembered to check for oil pressure drop after installation per Ski's suggestion, and it looks like about 1 psi parasitic loss, so no issue. Whether this would be more on a 5kw genset or not, I do not know, but would assume so.
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Old 12-25-2018, 06:42 PM   #31
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Catalina, If you re-read my stuff, I always say to follow the manufacturer's recommendation. Why isn't that good enough? I stand by my opinion...for recreational boaters, but then how do you know if it really makes any difference on a commercial operation unless you equip 1/2 of your fleet with it in a blind study? Otherwise, its all anecdotal and preference and what your grandfather did with his Model T.

STP. Marvel Mystery Oil. Anchors, bow thrusters and stern thrusters.
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Old 12-25-2018, 07:08 PM   #32
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Catalina, If you re-read my stuff, I always say to follow the manufacturer's recommendation. Why isn't that good enough? I stand by my opinion...for recreational boaters, but then how do you know if it really makes any difference on a commercial operation unless you equip 1/2 of your fleet with it in a blind study? Otherwise, its all anecdotal and preference and what your grandfather did with his Model T.

STP. Marvel Mystery Oil. Anchors, bow thrusters and stern thrusters.
The studies have already been done, countless times by a number of parties. A significant reduction in wear is always found when by pass filtration is used. You don't need to pay attention to them, or care, but it's a bit obtuse to think that others should feel the same way.
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Old 12-25-2018, 11:38 PM   #33
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The Hino 220HP turbo in Irony came stock with centrifugal filters. They are easy to clean and self drain.
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Old 12-26-2018, 12:15 AM   #34
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One thing I am curious about is whether slow turning diesels operating at a fraction of rated HP that may be prone to carbon build up would be more benefited by bypass filtration than engines turning at higher rpms. Any experts' opinions on this?
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Old 12-26-2018, 06:15 AM   #35
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"I am curious about is whether slow turning diesels operating at a fraction of rated HP that may be prone to carbon build up would be more benefited by bypass filtration than engines turning at higher rpms"

A low power requirement does not always mean under loading , if the operator has the proper prop installed .

Low RPM produces good HP, if the percentage used is enough to seal the rings , say 60% of the power available at the low RPM the engine should not be under loaded.

Many folks that cruise on minor power attempt to "blow her nose" with a 15 or 30 min large throttle run to help clear the carbon buildup.

Better fine filtration should help, but again a 200 hour a year use is a long time for an engine that should run 6,000+ with little help besides PM..

Simplest PM of course is to stay in the bullseye on the factory BMEP chary.
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Old 12-26-2018, 09:02 AM   #36
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The Hino 220HP turbo in Irony came stock with centrifugal filters. They are easy to clean and self drain.
Same is true for Scania marine engines, standard with centrifugal oil filtration... They allow for 500 hour drain intervals, using conventional, i.e. non-synthetic oil. Thus far this is the only marine engine I have encountered that allows for this type of extended drain interval without using synthetic oil.
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Old 12-26-2018, 12:20 PM   #37
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"Bypass filtration?" Are you sure you know what is being discussed? Who doesn't want that? Every engine that I am familiar with that actually has a factory filter has "bypass filtration."

I think that more damage is done by neglect and cold starts than done by manufacturer-recommended filtration.

Delfin, why is my skepticism of this wonderful new method of oil filtering any less valid or more "obtuse" than an assertion of its veracity? I can't possibly care what any of you do to your engine; if the latest gadget makes you feel better and your engine feels smoother to you or it didn't blow itself up when you used it last summer or whatever other method you use to judge how successful the doo-dad was, I can assure you it won't drop any rocks in my pond. Many entrepreneurs have sold us boat-things that they claim will do wonders for us and sometimes these sellers even get rich. I listed a few above. Like selling diesel in a can with a nice perfume in it and asserting it has special powers; fuel "polishing;" dino vs synthetic; anchor shape and size; Marvel Mystery Oil in your fuel; STP in your oil; 2 micron fuel filtration, and so it goes.

My engine was installed in 1995 and it has about 3000 hours on it. That includes 5 years when it actually worked commercially; should you all be standing around it staring at it in wonder (a vision of a creche springs to mind!) because it has survived all these years on factory filtration?

My experience is entirely anecdotal. The ONLY way to decide if my engine is some weird outlier that survived all these years DESPITE not having "bypass filtration" (Fleetguard says it does) or is it right in the middle of the pack of its expected life span? That would need an adequately-populated blind study. Here's another question for you: if you actually could prove that you could put something on your boat that will guarantee to make the engine go for 20 more years and you own it for the next 5, does it make sense to install it?
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Old 12-26-2018, 01:33 PM   #38
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"Bypass filtration?" Are you sure you know what is being discussed? Who doesn't want that? Every engine that I am familiar with that actually has a factory filter has "bypass filtration."
Yes, I think I do, but I am not sure you do based on this comment. Bypass filtration is not what the OEM installed filter provides. Those filters are full flow, allowing 8 gpm or thereabouts flow of oil, filtering particles in the 30 ppm range but passing everything else. Bypass filtration is in addition to this, has much lower flows (my Puradyn is not 8 gpm, but 6 gp hour), and filters out particles larger than 1 micron or so.

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I think that more damage is done by neglect and cold starts than done by manufacturer-recommended filtration.
Perhaps so, but if one doesn't neglect their engine, or circulates hot water via the ship's hydronic system through a heat exchanger so avoid cold starts, then what again is your argument against cleaner oil?

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Delfin, why is my skepticism of this wonderful new method of oil filtering any less valid or more "obtuse" than an assertion of its veracity?
Because by pass filtration's beneficial reduction in engine wear isn't a matter of speculation. It is demonstrated, which is why large fleets use it on their over the road trucks, why the U.S. gov installs them on their vehicles, and why no large ship lacks a by pass filtration system. Associating this common practice with Marvel Mystery Oil is a bit obtuse.

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My engine was installed in 1995 and it has about 3000 hours on it. That includes 5 years when it actually worked commercially; should you all be standing around it staring at it in wonder (a vision of a creche springs to mind!) because it has survived all these years on factory filtration?
And for all those, like you, who average far less than 100 hours/year of usage (assuming your boats usage during its commercial phase was a lot of the 3,000 hours) then you could probably go whatever distance you think is appropriate without ever changing the oil or filters. So why do you?

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My experience is entirely anecdotal. The ONLY way to decide if my engine is some weird outlier that survived all these years DESPITE not having "bypass filtration" (Fleetguard says it does) or is it right in the middle of the pack of its expected life span? That would need an adequately-populated blind study. Here's another question for you: if you actually could prove that you could put something on your boat that will guarantee to make the engine go for 20 more years and you own it for the next 5, does it make sense to install it?
Yes, your experience is anecdotal, while the benefits to a diesel engine of by pass filtration of oil is empirical. See the difference? And to your question, I gather your argument now for not having cleaner oil is that you can pass on more wear to the next buyer, so who cares about better maintenance.

Not everyone rolls like that....sorry.
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Old 12-26-2018, 02:00 PM   #39
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Delfin, nice installation. One important question, is the board on which the unit is mounted faired and Awlgripped, or is it a one part paint;-) Seriously, thank you for not using Starboard.



OK, I have to ask.... What's the issue with using Starboard as a backing/mounting board?
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Old 12-26-2018, 03:19 PM   #40
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Delfin, it really seems to matter to you how I feel about how you filter your oil - I don't actually care what you do, I thought I made myself clear about that point?

A US Navy boat that goes to sea for 100 years and comes home once in a while to reload is a far cry from Bob's Bayliner. Even a believer like you must agree that there is a difference? If I was to be REALLY obtuse, I could claim that the US Navy is a poor example of virtue, they seem to run into things and each other quite often so perhaps their examples are suspect...?

If you are accusing me of neglecting my boat, both for me and future owners - you have no idea how I maintain Old Shiny so that's probably rude. Besides, you used "obtuse" twice and you've made me do it now too!

I still have not seen a study, just tons of anecdotal self-serving nonsense.
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