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01-06-2017, 08:37 AM
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#21
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Guru
City: Cary, NC
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,841
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Quote:
Also, I'd dump that CQR ASAP. Ours held once out of every three times but we have 20,000lbs on you and had the same weight CQR. We love our Rocna!
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Quote:
I used CQR's for twenty five years of sailing and on trawlers. The first trawler also had a Bruce which I used in different anchorages as an alternative to the CQR. Both worked fine
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See what I mean?
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
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01-06-2017, 09:39 AM
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#22
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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What anchor manufacturers recommend is all over the map. ARA recommends one size over what most would so if you go one size over that it would be fine for an old anchor (except a Danforth) but overkill for a HP anchor. So the question of size does not lend itself to a formula like 1# per foot of boat or any of the other "standards" that are out there. Still it's good to at least view what the manufacturer recommends. See what other manufacturers recommend for the same type/class of anchor. Pick a size and float it by the forum to see what others here are using. There's an extremely worn out saying here .... "bigger is better" but it's a sign of insecurity and a habit that leads to really big anchors.
One size over what a average group of manufacturers recommends may be a fairly good standard. One size over what TF members use is probably in excess of that. Your question really is a can of worms.
I think the recommendations in the Chapman book are good.
What's more important than size is how you use it.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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01-06-2017, 09:47 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
City: Brentwood
Vessel Name: Miss Rita
Vessel Model: 2004 Heritage East
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 150
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Full reply
That 1st reply was sent before I finished it, oops! Thanks for everybody's input. Yesterday I read approx. 20 Pages on Cruiser Forum discussing anchor, as well as other articles and u-tube vids! I am new at big boats, I have anchored this boat on the Tom bigbee and lakes, no real water, my anchor chain was probadly piled om top of my anchor! But my goal is boating in all water and I want to be prepared. ( old boy scout) The Mantus size chart for 30,000# boat for great than 50 kts, 65# . I just didn't want to get to big in case I have to pull up manually, but not too small in case of major storm. The CQR is going to be retired. Still have the Fortress 37. Thanks for everybody's help.
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01-06-2017, 11:05 AM
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#24
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Guru
City: Hotel, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy
What's more important than size is how you use it.
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Are we still talking about anchors? I've been using that line in another context for over 30 years.
__________________
Craig
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
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01-06-2017, 11:37 AM
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#25
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Guru
City: Cary, NC
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym
I've been using that line in another context for over 30 years.
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Sooooo.... Since you were 50?
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
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01-06-2017, 12:11 PM
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#26
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Guru
City: Hotel, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,323
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No 20
I'm a grower not a shower
I'm an organic gardener you sick bastard
__________________
Craig
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
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01-06-2017, 12:19 PM
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#27
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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Craig,
That wasn't bait but I was sure I'd hear about that. Only took two posts.
S&Z,
Lets see a picture of your boat .... or you could just tell us whose avatar represents your boat .. windage wise.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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01-06-2017, 12:22 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Ranger
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy
What anchor manufacturers recommend is all over the map. ARA recommends one size over what most would so if you go one size over that it would be fine for an old anchor (except a Danforth) but overkill for a HP anchor. So the question of size does not lend itself to a formula like 1# per foot of boat or any of the other "standards" that are out there. Still it's good to at least view what the manufacturer recommends. See what other manufacturers recommend for the same type/class of anchor.
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I think that useful, maybe even to break down a little further.
Any given manufacturer's recommendation may or may not (maybe more likely the latter) to an anchor from a different manufacturer, even if of the same weight, or size.
OTOH, maybe some anchor designs can be aggregated into a "class?" for examination, and in that instance maybe some commonalities in size or weight recommendations may surface. (?)
Can't think of some example just now, but I think maybe there are a couple similar roll-bar/scoop anchors? Maybe a couple non-roll-bar/scoop anchors? Maybe some plows -- hinged CQR or one-piece Delta -- that are close enough to compare like that?
If so, maybe comparison of makers' recommendation would be useful.
Or not.
OTOH, comparing a Rocna to a Fortress (for example) would be really much more like apples and oranges... so the weight of one wouldn't likely be at all related to the weight of the other. Maybe size (physical dimensions) could work, but that starts turning into work...
Have to admit, I'm happy to realize an anchor manufacturer has way more experience with their product than I do... so their recommendations are usually my first stop.
-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
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01-06-2017, 12:27 PM
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#29
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Guru
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveandZoila
That 1st reply was sent before I finished it, oops! Thanks for everybody's input. Yesterday I read approx. 20 Pages on Cruiser Forum discussing anchor, as well as other articles and u-tube vids! I am new at big boats, I have anchored this boat on the Tom bigbee and lakes, no real water, my anchor chain was probadly piled om top of my anchor! But my goal is boating in all water and I want to be prepared. ( old boy scout) The Mantus size chart for 30,000# boat for great than 50 kts, 65# . I just didn't want to get to big in case I have to pull up manually, but not too small in case of major storm. The CQR is going to be retired. Still have the Fortress 37. Thanks for everybody's help.
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My take on the anchor size get one that will work well in ordinary conditions not overweight or with modern light anchors oversized. Keep one or two good aluminum high holding anchors to deploy from dinghy in challenging conditions. You already have the fortress for that. I carry a fortress and a aluminum spade as my back up anchors. I see no need to strain gear with an oversized anchor for the usual conditions which commonly entail a protected anchorage in light to moderate wind with possible wind shifts which a good normal sized anchor should handle. An oversized anchor is exactly that oversized.
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01-06-2017, 01:15 PM
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#30
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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Eyeshulman,
For what you use aluminum anchors I use a steel 13lb Danforth. A steel Danforth is still a lightweight anchor. And very hand deployable up to a point well above my size boat/anchor. But probably your size boat would almost require aluminum. Rocnas hold very well and a very small (8lbsfor my boat .. 15lbs for yours) would also do basically what you're talking about. Also I think one should have a hand deploy anchor and rode aboard any boat until it becomes not practical.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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01-06-2017, 01:15 PM
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#31
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Guru
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,181
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I have a 44' sundeck cruiser. 40000 lbs I bought a 105 pound mantus. if I had to do it again I would buy the 85 pound
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01-06-2017, 01:22 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
City: Brentwood
Vessel Name: Miss Rita
Vessel Model: 2004 Heritage East
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 150
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Picture of Miss Rita
Let's see if you are able to view picture
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01-06-2017, 01:32 PM
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#33
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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Ranger,
I meant very comparable like Supreme and Rocna, Boss and Vulcan, Davis and Delta.
But many anchors are unique enough not to be part of a group.
Also I question if "roll bar" anchors should be called roll bar anchors.
The roll bar only functions as a setting device. The roll bar dosn't identify the anchor as a basic type. You can call a PU truck an automatic but that only identifies the transmission .. it's still a PU truck. Those anchors usually refered to as roll bar anchors are mostly (or entirely) scoop or plow anchors. And of course anchors like the Delta are plow anchors that use ballast as a setting aid ... like the first plow (CQR). Of course there are scoop anchors like the Max that don't look like the other scoop anchors .. but they are still scoop anchors. The Max is another anchor that stands by itself. No other brand is similar enough for comparison.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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01-06-2017, 01:37 PM
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#34
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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Oh great Steve,
And the pic tells a lot about what you need for an anchor. Oversized because you have oversized windage. So look for an anchor that is both a high holding power (HHP) anchor, large and a bit heavier than most would use for your size boat.
You must be about "good to go" on this now.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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01-06-2017, 02:04 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
City: Brentwood
Vessel Name: Miss Rita
Vessel Model: 2004 Heritage East
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 150
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Size
Do you think 65# Mantus with 150' of 3/8 chain plus 3/4 nylon rope will do it?
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01-06-2017, 03:07 PM
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#36
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Guru
City: Cary, NC
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,841
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Buying new Anchor
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveandZoila
Do you think 65# Mantus with 150' of 3/8 chain plus 3/4 nylon rope will do it?
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I do. But I am also the one that wants you to keep your old one for a while.
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
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01-06-2017, 03:12 PM
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#37
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Guru
City: Mississippi
Vessel Name: ADAGIO
Vessel Model: CHB Present 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 920
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I'm shocked I tell you, shocked! 24 hours on an anchor thread and only 36 comments:-)
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01-06-2017, 03:13 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
City: Brentwood
Vessel Name: Miss Rita
Vessel Model: 2004 Heritage East
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 150
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Thanks
I will keep it, all 45#s of iron. I will place my order for the mantus tomorrow. Thanks to all members input.
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01-06-2017, 03:16 PM
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#39
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Guru
City: Mississippi
Vessel Name: ADAGIO
Vessel Model: CHB Present 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 920
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Congrats and good luck with the new boat! We are looking forward to cruising the TN River valley in the next few years.
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01-06-2017, 03:27 PM
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#40
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveandZoila
Do you think 65# Mantus with 150' of 3/8 chain plus 3/4 nylon rope will do it?
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According to the Mantus website, that should be fine until our get some very high winds. Before you order, check out the size of the anchor to ensure that it will fit on the bow and your anchor roller can take the weight.
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