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Old 03-18-2018, 08:50 AM   #281
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We made it home safely.
Now the countdown begins for our return to the boat for take II.
What does the timing look like?
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Old 03-18-2018, 08:52 AM   #282
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markers without a chart or local knowledge are meaningless till you establish where you need to be in reference to them.

one of the first things taught to me about navigation was that you are suposed to know where you are at all times....verifying it by gps, celestial, markers, buoys, etc is just icing on the cake.

thats why in piloting they call them fixes versus estimated positions.

so using marks is only a good idea if you are already sure its the one you want.

not directed at anyone, just a tidbit of several careers and a lifetime of navigation experience.
Serious question...not rhetorical.
How up to date are the charts? How often are they wrong?
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Old 03-18-2018, 08:54 AM   #283
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What does the timing look like?
Itís looking like we canít really get back until the 29th. IF it were ready by Friday of this week, AND we had a great weather window, we could possibly fly in Friday and leave Saturday but that would be pretty rushed.

Dang real life responsibilities getting in the way. Lol
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Old 03-18-2018, 09:05 AM   #284
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Serious question...not rhetorical.
How up to date are the charts? How often are they wrong?
They're as up to date as you make them. You can download new charts today and they'll be current. Otherwise they will not be. They'll be as old as the length of time since you last updated them. You control how up to date they are.

How often are they wrong? After a major event, they may often be. Also depends on where you are. That's why notices to mariners are important, but also other tools such as Waterway Guide, Active Captain, Cruisers Net and Local Knowledge.

Then in areas of unfamiliarity, go in with extra caution and distrust. That means slow, observing.

One other thing not asked, "How often are your depth instruments inaccurate?" New boat to you, might be worth really checking out. Is 5' really 5' and if it is then how much is my draft and how much space does that leave.

Last, you ran aground or hit something. As no one has looked yet, you don't know what. However, it's something that happens. Don't let it make you overly fearful, just cautious. S... happens.
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Old 03-18-2018, 09:31 AM   #285
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There is a lag on charts....from the time a marker is changed to the time it appears on a chart is my guess between a week or two, maybe even three most of the time.

Notice to mariners and NOAA electronic charts I think are updated or published weekly.

All usually good enough for safe navigation.

Wrong is a funny word in navigation markers....

A sandbar might be slightly larger and the tide might be exceptionally low, so bumping bottom inside a usually marked channel is not uncommon.

Yet there are plenty of marks that could be moved yet arent...just not feasible....and others that only dredging will help.

When traversing the ICWs, I usually make a list of known trouble spots I have been hearing about here. other forums and online guides.

Most I know about and many others arent really trouble, as they are incorrectly reported. There is usually plenty of water, but some manage to find sand or mud.....or worse.
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Old 03-18-2018, 09:48 AM   #286
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They're as up to date as you make them. You can download new charts today and they'll be current. Otherwise they will not be. They'll be as old as the length of time since you last updated them. You control how up to date they are.

How often are they wrong? After a major event, they may often be. Also depends on where you are. That's why notices to mariners are important, but also other tools such as Waterway Guide, Active Captain, Cruisers Net and Local Knowledge.

Then in areas of unfamiliarity, go in with extra caution and distrust. That means slow, observing.

One other thing not asked, "How often are your depth instruments inaccurate?" New boat to you, might be worth really checking out. Is 5' really 5' and if it is then how much is my draft and how much space does that leave.

Last, you ran aground or hit something. As no one has looked yet, you don't know what. However, it's something that happens. Don't let it make you overly fearful, just cautious. S... happens.
Thanks. We definitely hit something. When it first happened and I posted about it, I had assumed we had just bumped bottom because it didnít FEEL like much and there was no sounds that made me think it was something solid. My initial post about it was before we knew there was anything wrong. We still had a ways to go of idling in no wake zones and the problem didnít become obvious until we tried to throttle up. Also I didnít know that whatever we hit had killed the port engine. It started right back up but David didnít tell me that part. I guess he didnít want me to worry if I didnít need to.

As for depth instruments, David said thatís something he wants to test, but there is a depth finder gauge and then the depth on the GPS. Iím assuming they each have their own transducer? They werenít in perfect sync, but they were pretty close to each other at all times. I am also assuming that itís telling us how much water is under the hull. When I had my little mishap, it showed for a little bit a depth of less than a foot and we never hit bottom or ran aground.

David used AC a LOT. He was on that and other places almost nonstop before the trip plotting it out. He had it open and running the whole trip on an iPad in addition to the GPS.
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Old 03-18-2018, 10:00 AM   #287
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When I had my little mishap, it showed for a little bit a depth of less than a foot and we never hit bottom or ran aground.
.
Less than a foot is never enough to me. You seem so convinced you didn't hit bottom and it sure sounds like you did. Are you saying your depth finder showed less than a foot? Or the difference in what it showed and your draft was less than a foot? Regardless, if you were down to less than a foot clearance, you were already out of the channel. Notice I didn't say marked channel but any sort of a real, true channel.

I am Mr. Conservative when it comes to depths. I often plan trips using significantly deeper drafts than I have and find myself taking wider turns and going slightly more distance. I don't have to take the shortest route. To me it's like parking in a huge parking lot where there's one space up close but you'd have to squeeze in because the car to the right side is on or over the line. I don't do it. I'll find another space and walk. We may put on more miles than anyone else here but less shallow water miles. If I have a choice I don't select the marina that only has 5' depth if there's another with 8'.
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Old 03-18-2018, 10:04 AM   #288
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you should be following the yellow shapes on the ICW....while 99 oercent of the time, the yellow shape will match what marker it is on, not always.

as a yellow triangle or square can be on either a red or green, thats why they are there as the primary color of the buoy may be marking the major channel and the yellow shape denotes the correct side of the ICW.

read a secrion of literature on buoys and markings, way too many misleading statements in this thread....

https://www.boat-ed.com/pennsylvania...039_101039090/
Okay, we must travel a small section (15 miles or so)of the ICW every time we leave our Canal. I have never seen a yellow square or a yellow triangle on any of those Day marks. I think I should pay better attention.
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Old 03-18-2018, 10:18 AM   #289
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We made it home safely.
Now the countdown begins for our return to the boat for take II.
You could not think of a good reason to avoid going home?
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Old 03-18-2018, 01:59 PM   #290
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Less than a foot is never enough to me. You seem so convinced you didn't hit bottom and it sure sounds like you did. Are you saying your depth finder showed less than a foot? Or the difference in what it showed and your draft was less than a foot? Regardless, if you were down to less than a foot clearance, you were already out of the channel. Notice I didn't say marked channel but any sort of a real, true channel.

I am Mr. Conservative when it comes to depths. I often plan trips using significantly deeper drafts than I have and find myself taking wider turns and going slightly more distance. I don't have to take the shortest route. To me it's like parking in a huge parking lot where there's one space up close but you'd have to squeeze in because the car to the right side is on or over the line. I don't do it. I'll find another space and walk. We may put on more miles than anyone else here but less shallow water miles. If I have a choice I don't select the marina that only has 5' depth if there's another with 8'.
There are two different things I’m talking about. One when we were on our way from Sarasota to Tarpon Springs on Monday when I almost ran us aground. I veered out of the channel into very shallow water because I was focusing on the wrong green marker. The correct one was rather way off in the distance and I didn’t even notice it until David pointed it out to me once he got us back on course. I noticed right away that on both AC and the GPS that i was moving out of the channel and it confused me because again, i was focusing on the wrong green marker. We did not hit bottom there...which I think was just sheer luck because it was very shallow outside of the channel. David knew it was very shallow on both sides outside of the channel which is why he “reluctantly” let me drive so he could go ready lines and fenders. When I veered out of the channel, the depth finder showed less than a foot...like .9. Our draft is 3.5 ft. We were going pretty slow but in the moment I didn’t think to take it out of gear. When David came up he told me if something like that ever happened again, to take it out of gear.

The other was when we hit whatever we hit. That was early Thursday morning leaving turtle cove to be on our way to the gulf. The people that work there told us we should be ok even at low tide we just needed to be careful and go slow which of course we were. Had it not been low tide, there would have been more water and maybe we would have missed whatever we hit. It was definitely upsetting and disappointing having to abort the trip, but we realize that stuff just happens sometimes.

I honestly don’t know anyone more conservative or cautious than David. Especially when in an unfamiliar place. To the point that i often think he’s TOO cautious. I think that’s why compliment each other well. Lol
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:05 PM   #291
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Yum. Lunch.
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Old 03-18-2018, 03:14 PM   #292
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When I veered out of the channel, the depth finder showed less than a foot...like .9. Our draft is 3.5 ft.
That's where you need to check the depth finder settings to see if it's set to depth of water or depth below lowest point. That's a matter of preference but we always go with water depth. Sounds like yours must be depth below or it couldn't get to .9.
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Old 03-18-2018, 04:05 PM   #293
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Or could be depth below the transducer, which will be somewhere between water depth and lowest point of boat.
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Old 03-18-2018, 04:57 PM   #294
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Or could be depth below the transducer, which will be somewhere between water depth and lowest point of boat.
Yes, just important that one figures out the depth it's set for.
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Old 03-18-2018, 05:08 PM   #295
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Hmmm, let's say the transducer is 2 ft above the bottom of the keel. Now, let's say, to be safe, you want 4 ft of good water below the keel. So now we want to adjust the alarm to 6 ft. Do we adjust the alarm 6 feet + or -?
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Old 03-18-2018, 05:18 PM   #296
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Hmmm, let's say the transducer is 2 ft above the bottom of the keel. Now, let's say, to be safe, you want 4 ft of good water below the keel. So now we want to adjust the alarm to 6 ft. Do we adjust the alarm 6 feet + or -?
I would be setting the depthfinder keel offset reading at minus two feet and reacting (alarming) when it shows four.

However, a good number of our members have running gear hanging below the keel, you may want to set your reading to bottom of boat rather than keel.

Then when you set the alarm, which is different from your offset reading, can be set at whatever true under the vessel clearance you feel comfortable with.
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Old 03-18-2018, 05:24 PM   #297
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We will definitely verify as soon as we can. David had the low water alarms set to 5 ft. Just to be on the safe side.

I think “my” preference would be for it to show the amount of water from the lowest part of the boat to the bottom. I wanna know how much water I have under the boat.
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Old 03-18-2018, 06:15 PM   #298
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Whats for breakfast?
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Old 03-18-2018, 06:36 PM   #299
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Congratulations! It sounds like an amazing trip. How about some more pics of the boat?

Cheers!
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Old 03-18-2018, 06:48 PM   #300
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Congratulations! It sounds like an amazing trip. How about some more pics of the boat?

Cheers!
It is almost impossible to take pictures of your boat while underway.
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