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Old 07-02-2017, 11:40 AM   #41
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I'm with Brooksie. There are other places to shop online where I don't have to pay WA sales tax and the product prices are often lower.


Starting this next budget cycle, it appears we will be paying sales tax on online purchases (rightly so btw). My biggest concern about that change is how it will affect the small online retailers such as CMS.

Online is great and I make a LOT of purchases online. However, I have a small WM store in Gig Harbor where my boat is. It is very handy having a brick and mortar store close by for those items that I don't want to wait to have delivered. Maybe that is more of an issue for me since I am still working. I have little time to do stuff with the boat and sometimes it is a real pain to have to stop a project and wait a few days to have something delivered.

I hope WM continues to survive because they do provide a service. For that matter, in Gig Harbor we have a small independent chandlery as well that I try to support. There are times when it is worth it to pay more for the service that is provided by storefront.
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Old 07-02-2017, 11:50 AM   #42
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I go to West Marine for some things but I definitely pick and choose. In RI, they price match Defender. But they recently pissed me off when it came time to install my 40 amp battery charger. I needed 2 50 amp fuses, they only had one. The local owned hardware/marine also had one! So I found myself driving back and forth between the two stores. I didn't buy the charger from either one. I used Bay Marine in CA. Best price anywhere for the particular model .

Hm... you were pissed because two stores couldn't afford to stock enough of an item that you wanted? At the same time you mention that you purchased a more expensive item from an online competitor?

Doesn't anyone else see a disconnect there?
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Old 07-02-2017, 11:56 AM   #43
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Hi Dave

You get it. Sometimes price isn't the most important thing and have a walk in store dies provide an important function. I try to support the local store when possible, I like being able to walk in and having service.
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Old 07-02-2017, 12:58 PM   #44
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I believe there remains a place for brick and mortar. As a disclaimer and to show prejudice, we own quite a few brick and mortar stores. So, how do they survive? What's that place?

Service. Service. Service.

That's where it starts, but that can take a variety of forms and must for different products. In the case of West Marine, I think it's a strong integration between their stores and their web site. They can offer some things that those with web only can't offer. For instance, easy return of anything you buy online to the local store. There are still many things we want to see, touch and feel before buying and other things we want to walk out of the store with on that day, although with good salesmanship, it's amazing how often you'll accept next day. Integrating inventory systems so if they don't have what you need in the store, they can find it quickly at another store or through their web distribution and immediately get it on the way to you and if you're in the store, they should never send you to the web. They should find it themselves and order for you right then.

It's also determining what they can be best at and what they can't. I've seen a lot of them looking at the leader in what they feel is their segment, Cabela's, and looking at Bass Pro. Well, the news flash for them is that neither of those is in their segment, nor their competition. They can't copy those. If they add things, like they have with clothing, they can't take away the basics of their business. They can't dummy down their staff either to reduce costs. If anything they need to elevate the staff so that anytime you visit you'll find someone knowledgeable available. They need to add some things that will enhance profits. They may have some online only type things. But also they need to find something to add to the stores without taking away. Some of this may get more of a younger shopper in as well. I'm not that familiar with their stores, but SUP's are easier to make a profit on than apparel is, Kayak's are easier. Bass Pro really exploded when they got into the boat business big time and suddenly became the largest boat dealer in the country and Tracker became the number one selling brand of boats.

The most common tactic of private equity firms and of new management in takeovers is to cut back and save money. I prefer an opposite approach and that is how to increase volume and margin with the same overhead as today or incrementally very little addition. This is an area I see where West Marine has failed. They haven't increased their overall volume of sales, they've just struggled to remain much the same. A strong web presence should allow for more. There's a magic in retailing with brick and mortar today and that is to maintain the same sales at the brick and mortar store but add on sales from the web site. Defender never should have had a chance against West Marine, but they were web oriented. Same reason Amazon shouldn't have had a chance against Barnes and Noble, but Barnes and Noble didn't believe people would buy books online so failed to take advantage of their head start.

They need to decide which items they must have always in inventory, that you can depend on being there when you go and which ones they can only provide next day or in two days. Their web site does show you store availability but I don't know how many people utilize that or how accurate it is. A good web site doesn't have to take away from store sales, but can enhance them. How many of you have used their website to look for things and then checked to see store availability?

I think they need to reexamine not carrying other brands in things like inflatables. It's fine to sell your own label if you can do so cheaper, but Defender sells private label plus six brands. There is no reason that defender should be able to offer more than West Marine.

I believe in building up, rather than tearing down. I know this isn't the nature of most investment firms. I follow the Warren Buffett approach, not the others. Our retail stores were all operating stores we purchased and in no case have we ever cut back, but we've found ways to increase sales and margin in the existing stores. Most businesses Berkshire Hathaway has purchased have grown.

West Marine has the opportunity to be the best of both worlds, to be your local mom and pop type store with personal service and to be the largest supplier of marine products through a combination of their stores and the internet. Leverage what they have.

Brick and mortar isn't dead. Amazon doesn't believe it is as they're opening stores and just agreed to spend $13.7 billion on brick and mortar stores. Brick and mortar must leverage their business with the internet. West Marine has a huge base on which to leverage business. They should examine how Wal-mart if fighting back against Amazon. It's working for them. One of my favorite stores is Bed, Bath and Beyond. If they don't have the item you're after they will honor store coupons, order it immediately for you online, and ship it for free. They don't allow you to leave the store dissatisfied.

I hope the purchasers see the real opportunity is in strengthening and building. I doubt they will. There's hope though. Perhaps they're already looking at an acquisition to couple with West Marine and enhance them. I don't know. I wish they were a firm known for keeping and operating companies rather than reselling them in two to four years.
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Old 07-02-2017, 01:12 PM   #45
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One more suggestion to West Marine. Delivery to your boat. Would you be willing to pay $5 for same day delivery?
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Old 07-02-2017, 01:20 PM   #46
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One more suggestion to West Marine. Delivery to your boat. Would you be willing to pay $5 for same day delivery?
I'd pay more than that! Just to avoid the stress of traffic on Aquidneck Island on a busy summer day!!!
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Old 07-02-2017, 01:52 PM   #47
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I'd pay more than that! Just to avoid the stress of traffic on Aquidneck Island on a busy summer day!!!
Bruce
We offer same day local delivery on everything we sell. We have employees who deliver but also use Uber to do so. Our web orders are all fulfilled by the store. Order comes through, sales clerk goes and pulls the item, checks it, contacts customer. Internet sales are a small part of our business but it's an extra part on top of the store sales. Even if you only add 10% sales, with no extra personnel, it's a huge plus.

This is what all the grocers who deliver now are doing. They're pulling the order from regular store inventory. Most charge from $3 to $9.99 to do so. The $9.99 seems to be reasonable and fair as they give all the same deals available in the store. The $3 does not give you any of the deals in the weekly sales flyer.
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Old 07-02-2017, 01:52 PM   #48
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Mbev

I steal mine too.
Oops.. I guess the wording wasn't quite right.

How many TF people actually buy clothes at WM?
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Old 07-02-2017, 01:53 PM   #49
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Private equity firms have a history of paring down costs to build quick profitability. They sometimes don't hold an acquisition long enough to feel the effects of the cost cutting. Pump the profits, and sell quickly. Randy could have an opportunity to buy it back after the third changing of hands. This time at a real fire sale price, or even at bankruptcy. I knew a guy who bought and sold the same business twice at a huge profit to him. Private equity firms do a good job at buying, cutting costs, and flipping businesses. Not so much at running businesses.
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Old 07-02-2017, 02:14 PM   #50
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Private equity firms have a history of paring down costs to build quick profitability. They sometimes don't hold an acquisition long enough to feel the effects of the cost cutting. Pump the profits, and sell quickly. Randy could have an opportunity to buy it back after the third changing of hands. This time at a real fire sale price, or even at bankruptcy. I knew a guy who bought and sold the same business twice at a huge profit to him. Private equity firms do a good job at buying, cutting costs, and flipping businesses. Not so much at running businesses.
This private equity firm has held some longer, but sold some of their acquisitions in about two years. When that's your goal, you make a lot of short term decisions without considering the long term implications. I've seen cases like you describe of original owners eventually buying them back.

The other thing private equity firms do is recapitalize businesses. In that way, they get their investment back and leave a business with debt. Speaking of which, isn't it about time for Versa to flip Hatteras? Surprised they haven't sold the Cabo name.
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Old 07-02-2017, 02:18 PM   #51
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You... can't... say... you've. *ever*.. bought clothes? That is interesting. Please tell us more. Preferably without pictures.




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How many people here actually buy their clothes? Can't say I ever have.
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Old 07-02-2017, 02:23 PM   #52
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You... can't... say... you've. *ever*.. bought clothes? That is interesting. Please tell us more. Preferably without pictures.
Please see post #48
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Old 07-02-2017, 02:27 PM   #53
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Based on mbevins never buying clothes at WM, I have a general question.

What type things have various members here bought at WM? I must admit I've only purchased magazines there.
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Old 07-02-2017, 03:11 PM   #54
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We offer same day local delivery on everything we sell. We have employees who deliver but also use Uber to do so. Our web orders are all fulfilled by the store. Order comes through, sales clerk goes and pulls the item, checks it, contacts customer. Internet sales are a small part of our business but it's an extra part on top of the store sales. Even if you only add 10% sales, with no extra personnel, it's a huge plus.



This is what all the grocers who deliver now are doing. They're pulling the order from regular store inventory. Most charge from $3 to $9.99 to do so. The $9.99 seems to be reasonable and fair as they give all the same deals available in the store. The $3 does not give you any of the deals in the weekly sales flyer.


One of the problems that WM has is that online orders that delivered for store pickup don't accrue at all to the store sales numbers. If you order the item from the store itself, it does. From my limited experience, I've seen that this makes individual store managers less than enthusiastic.
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Old 07-02-2017, 03:37 PM   #55
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Greetings,
Mr. kev. I don't buy clothes either. My wife dresses me. Clothing is such a restrictive option...This is as close as you're going to get...



Regarding WM purchases. I'm a touchy/feeley kind of shopper as well. I like to have the tactile confirmation that the "whatever" will be suitable for the purposes intended. In spite of the fact I consider WM prices to be higher than average their return policy and customer service does make up for the price differential in some cases. It is not the first place I prefer to do business with nor is it at the bottom of the list either.
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Old 07-02-2017, 04:17 PM   #56
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Based on mbevins never buying clothes at WM, I have a general question.

What type things have various members here bought at WM? I must admit I've only purchased magazines there.
I've never bought clothes or shoes at WM, but have bought a lot of boat parts. My last purchase was an engine compartment exhaust vent. I knew they had them because I'd seen them there before, and the price was actually a little less than on line.

The deciding factor was I only needed one. I've given up going to WM for a pair of anything. They seem to only keep ONE of each item in stock. Even things that are used in pairs. I watched three different WM stores for a year looking for a pair of chocks. It became a bit of a game. Never saw more than one in any store.

Oh, they're happy to order it for you. It'll be in next Tuesday (or Wednesday, or whatever day your store gets their weekly delivery.) But Amazon will get it to me in the next day or two, and I don't have to drive back to the store.

I still kind of like having WM around. I just wish they'd join the 21st century with product availability, while going back to their roots in stocking boat parts instead of fashion items. It's probably too much to ask, and I don't hold out a lot of hope. I assume I'm in the minority, as usual.
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Old 07-02-2017, 04:20 PM   #57
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Good comments BandB, service is key and I'm willing to pay extra for it.
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Old 07-02-2017, 04:37 PM   #58
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Oh, they're happy to order it for you. It'll be in next Tuesday (or Wednesday, or whatever day your store gets their weekly delivery.) But Amazon will get it to me in the next day or two, and I don't have to drive back to the store.

I still kind of like having WM around. I just wish they'd join the 21st century with product availability, while going back to their roots in stocking boat parts instead of fashion items. It's probably too much to ask, and I don't hold out a lot of hope. I assume I'm in the minority, as usual.
On the ordering, I feel like they should have it the next day. Waiting for a weekly shipment doesn't help me either. If someone just says they can do that, I'll tell them I can go home and beat that.

I have no idea how the clothing has sold for them. Hopefully they're evaluating per cubic foot. Odd that the complaints over them not having things or only having one are relatively small and inexpensive items. I can better understand 1 of a $800 item, but when it comes to $5, $10 or $50 the cost of a backup should be looked at as customer retention money.
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Old 07-02-2017, 04:44 PM   #59
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Good comments BandB, service is key and I'm willing to pay extra for it.
I am too and then you have Walmart as proof most are not. However, I watched their competitors from department stores to mom and pop and when Walmart (and KMart before them and others) started to hit, they cut back on their only advantage, service. I remember talking to a merchandise manager in New York about Macy's in Herald Square. They once were renowned for service. However, a huge discount store/mall built beside them with lower prices. Macy's cut back on employees and soon the discount store provided better service than they did. So, I'm not sure Walmart did prove people won't pay for service, but it proved without a doubt that people prefer cheaper and available. Amazon has proven price and convenience.

A small store has only one advantage over mass merchandisers and online ever and that advantage is service.
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Old 07-02-2017, 07:08 PM   #60
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One of the problems that WM has is that online orders that delivered for store pickup don't accrue at all to the store sales numbers. If you order the item from the store itself, it does. From my limited experience, I've seen that this makes individual store managers less than enthusiastic.
Years ago (about 20 plus) the 2nd most profitable WM store was Boston . I found this very hard to believe at the time but the numbers spoke for themselves. The only more profitable "store" was catalog sales, which was considered a "store" at the time.
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