Bow Thruster vs Stern Thruster

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For parallel parking with twins, I tend to nose in and use the engines to stop the boat and slide the stern over to the dock. As long as you don't run out of forward momentum before you get the stern in, you won't pull the bow out in the process. Or in calm conditions with a tight space, I'll sometimes do a modified version where I do a 180 into the space, as it allows building more sideways momentum (but less ability to fight wind). Because you're moving more sideways and less forward on the final approach, it's easier to get into a tight space.
 
For parallel parking with twins, I tend to nose in and use the engines to stop the boat and slide the stern over to the dock. As long as you don't run out of forward momentum before you get the stern in, you won't pull the bow out in the process. Or in calm conditions with a tight space, I'll sometimes do a modified version where I do a 180 into the space, as it allows building more sideways momentum (but less ability to fight wind). Because you're moving more sideways and less forward on the final approach, it's easier to get into a tight space.

Certainly. And if you had a bow thruster, it would be even easier to back her in because you can control the bow much better than with just twins. I would never go to the trouble and expense of adding a BT to my twin, BUT when I encountered one with a BT, an new world opened for "parallel parking."
 
Wow! What a lot of input. When I started the thread I probably should have chosen something other than “versus/vs” in the heading. That implies better or worse and that’s not what I was trying to determine. Neither was I looking for “thrusters vs no thruster” debates and/or judgement calls. I was simply trying to determine if a stern thruster alone had enough value to warrant the investment - purchase and installation costs for a refit in the PacNW are significantly more expensive for bow thrusters. As others have noted, there are times when thrusters are more than a lazy way to maneuver at low speed. Thrusters can enable older folks to boat longer, can enable single handed docking, can empower a spouse to enjoy docking and not fear it, etc. The list goes on.

As I determined way back toward the beginning (thanks to a helpful TF’er) for me, on a Bayliner 4788, in our boating environment (winds and tidal currents), a stern thruster alone offers us enough benefit to justify the expense vs the added cost and similar (but different) benefits from a bow thruster.

Of course all that musing was pre-COVID and the impact it’s had on access to PacNW cruising grounds vs major boat expenses. Oh well. To everyone - again, my thanks but can we avoid the “real men don’t need thrusters” comments? There are simply too many variables to generalize at that level.
 
Right on,Beaverlake. Rejecting all thrusters is akin to preferring solid rubber tires over pneumatic ones. Though some "real men" might be quite proud of their "thruster".
 
Wow! What a lot of input. When I started the thread I probably should have chosen something other than “versus/vs” in the heading. That implies better or worse and that’s not what I was trying to determine. Neither was I looking for “thrusters vs no thruster” debates and/or judgement calls. I was simply trying to....

Sure, you were simply trying..., but you must remember this is the TF where no thread is allowed to remain untested by the bounds of our wild egos and imaginations. :)
 
Just my 2 cents worth. I think to begin with primarily it depends on your profile, hull shape and windage.
Our current boat has a nice long keel which grips the water well, I've 'fenced' the rudder which makes a big difference and fitted an electric bow thruster which I find very helpful.
An experienced skipper can instinctively 'feel' how to use the elements to his best advantage when mooring, or departing.
Before having the bow thruster I would plan ahead and use ropes as springs and often skippered large boats single handedly but as AEVDG points out we're not getting any younger and we must adjust our boat handling techniques according to our bodily capacities.
As we've got older new systems have come on line and our pockets can (hopefully) afford some of these little luxuries.
If I had a new boat built I would absolutely, whatever the cost, fit hydraulic thrusters rated slightly higher than brochures recommend both for and aft, quite simply because in my humble opinion its worth it, unlike an electrical system which, if you are in difficulties of strange tides, strong winds etc cut out if they get too warm.
A properly fitted hydraulic system can be used extensively and won't cut out.
 
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Just my 2 cents worth. I think to begin with primarily it depends on your profile, hull shape and windage.


Certainly this is the best place to start. I remember my 65ft twin, with medium windage and good depth of hull (and displacement). No thrusters and zero need for them because it had very good sized rudders.

It would walk sideways perfectly into a side slip. Against currents in Seattle or high cross winds in Cali, it would certainly require large applications of throttle. And I honestly doubt an 80 year old would have had difficulties, so it wasn’t a matter of age.

So I tried teaching dock techniques to my buddy with his Mainship 34. Neither of us could get it to walk because the boat didn’t have the design attributes to allow that it was light, semi displacement, small rudders, highly affected by winds, etc. For his application thruster(s) would have been agile help.
 
Certainly. And if you had a bow thruster, it would be even easier to back her in because you can control the bow much better than with just twins. I would never go to the trouble and expense of adding a BT to my twin, BUT when I encountered one with a BT, an new world opened for "parallel parking."

Exactly. For me, a thruster would see more use when departing a side tie against the wind more than anything. And an occasional burst when backing into a narrow slip. But I also agree, the cost, weight, and loss of stage space isn't worth it on this boat. The rudders aren't too small, the keel is cut away before the props, and there are no prop pockets, so nothing to limit prop walk and plenty of rudder authority.
 
Thruster power

I had a hydraulic bow thruster to play with on a boat I delivered last spring, and I could run it all day long. If the engine was in neutral, I could throttle up and get more power out of it.

My little 30-footer has a sort of low powered battery operated thruster which needs to be used in limited time spurts. It is helpful in mild conditions because of the lack of prop walk due to my prop tunnel and my postage stamp rudder. I could expect little help from it in a situation where a strong broadside current or wind is hitting the boat.

Mileage varies widely from installation to installation for these and other reasons.
 
Bow vs Stern thruster

Patti & Gordon, Good post, lots of input and opinion and useful. Upfront, I need a bow thruster (55 hp) and I want a stern thruster, more importantly my first mate wants us to have a stern thruster to help her with locking and docking, anchoring, etc. Decision made then :lol:

I was taught slow boat handling without using our bow thruster and I'm grateful for that. I was taught the back and fill technique to turn the boat nearly on its axis. Since our bow thruster failed several times I'm glad I learned the proper slow boat handling.

We have a single 135 hp engine, left hand prop rotation. We have a slow boat and without a bow thruster it is more difficult, less safe and slightly more stressful to dock, undock, raft up, anchoring, etc.

Sure cost is an issue but I'm putting on a stern thruster in a month or so. In our case we will be more relaxed and safer boaters because of it and I want to go sideways lol.

Coalman

MV Elaine May
Monk36 Aft cabin trawler
Hull #179

TF
MTOA
MOA
AGLCA
 
Stern thrusters

My compliments Coalman - you are a very wise man. I am speaking as the first mate of a trawler on a side tie with a bow and stern thruster - and I wouldn't be without them.

I have read all the information about not needing the thrusters, and the Captain (100 ton certified by the way) is perfectly capable of docking just about anywhere. But I have had two major back surgeries and jumping to the dock is long gone. It just makes life easier, less stressful and much more pleasant.

Good for the first mate.:thumb::thumb::thumb:
 
My boat had a decent (electric) bow thruster when I bought it; I had the stern thruster added along with a wireless remote for the same

Besides the obvious advantage for single-handed docking - keeping the boat in place at the dock while I tie up, there is a very useful aspect of thrusters. My wheel is about 6 1/2 turns lock to lock. In tight quarters, using the thrusters helps me to swing the boat around very quickly, much more so than with the wheel. Double that if the direction must change to the opposite heading.
 
Patti & Gordon, Good post, lots of input and opinion and useful. Upfront, I need a bow thruster (55 hp) and I want a stern thruster, more importantly my first mate wants us to have a stern thruster to help her with locking and docking, anchoring, etc. Decision made then [emoji38]


If you do a fair amount of locking the wireless remote Spinner mentioned is worth considering.
I have both B & S thrusters and added the remote a few yrs ago in anticipation of an extended cruise through NY canals and Trent Severn Waterway to Lk Huron. We did 110 locks and that spring was exceptionally high water & flows. Being able to control the stern for my mate while at the bow tending lines was a help in many occasions... and the mate really appreciated it! [emoji6]
 
The reason that sailing channels on youtube are so popular is that so often sailors insist on doing things the hard way with very entertaining results. (I am a reformed sailor). I guess we like to see other boaters problems instead of our own.

Some folks on this forum like to dismiss others for not using tried and true methods such as mid cleat handling, back and fill, etc when the plain truth is thrusters make our lives easier. I came over to power for an easier life and yes thrusters can fail at very inopportune moments but the end result is seldom worse than trying to fit a 45' boat into a 55' space with the wind blowing off the dock with docklines alone.

I guess my point is use'em if you got'em and if they provide you some comfort coming into the dock it was worth the investment.

Don
 
The reason that sailing channels on youtube are so popular is that so often sailors insist on doing things the hard way with very entertaining results. (I am a reformed sailor). I guess we like to see other boaters problems instead of our own.

Some folks on this forum like to dismiss others for not using tried and true methods such as mid cleat handling, back and fill, etc when the plain truth is thrusters make our lives easier. I came over to power for an easier life and yes thrusters can fail at very inopportune moments but the end result is seldom worse than trying to fit a 45' boat into a 55' space with the wind blowing off the dock with docklines alone.

I guess my point is use'em if you got'em and if they provide you some comfort coming into the dock it was worth the investment.

Don

Well said.
 
Patti & Gordon, Good post, lots of input and opinion and useful. Upfront, I need a bow thruster (55 hp) and I want a stern thruster, more importantly my first mate wants us to have a stern thruster to help her with locking and docking, anchoring, etc. Decision made then :lol:

55 HP would be impressive on a 36' Monk! I'm guessing that you meant 5.5 HP?

Ted
 
Don, I agree with you, well said indeed. I remember when we were getting our boat surveyed, we had to have a licensed captain move it, a very very experienced guy. I was a little surprised when he used the thruster extensively. I told him I thought someone like him wouldn't need it, his answer was " no, but I am sure as hell gonna use it if it's there!"
 
Lyn and Larry Pardy sailed half way around the world in something like a 24 sailboat. When I get around blow hards who talk about not needing thrusters if you know how to drive your boat with just the engine. I say: "Look any woosie can drive a boat with an engine. Lyn and Larry Pardy went half way round the world without an engine. You want to blow your own horn, get rid of your engine."

Here's something written up by Lyn memorializing Larry after his death. I will put a link to it at the bottom if you'd like to read the whole article.

"Larry was a man who kept every promise he made, and a doer who knew how to dream. On our first date in Newport Beach, California, two days after we met, he took me to see his keel timber, the first piece of the boat he was building. He sat me down on the loft floor saying, “You are in the cockpit.” Then he walked along the 30-foot long, full-sized drawing of the boat plans, stopping to point out where a coachroof would someday sit, where the mast would be, then the bow. He extended his arm forward and, with a faraway look in his eye stated, “And then there will be a seven-foot-long bowsprit to point towards the horizon.”

“That was a wonderful day, almost like an adventure,” I said as I prepared to leave and head back to my home near the edge of the California desert, 100 miles to the north.

“Stick with me baby and you’ll go a long way,” he replied.

He definitely lived up to his promise.

When we’d been living together for about three months (I moved in with him a week after that second date), Larry was working three days a week on the boat, and four as skipper on a 20-ton charter ketch. I was working as a computer tech five days a week and a boat-builders’ apprentice—Larry’s—two days. One of his mates came by, who’d sailed as engineer on the 85-foot schooner, Double Eagle while Larry was first mate and the late Bob Sloan the skipper during a four-month charter trip to Hawaii for a movie shoot. The two men began recalling stories of their voyage. “Did Larry ever tell you he was dating a movie actress and she almost convinced him to come back to Hollywood with her because she had arranged for him to get some acting work?” Ken went on to tell me how Larry had dated Diana Hyland for a while. (Diana soon became John Travolta’s partner.) Later that night I asked Larry why he hadn’t taken her up on her offer. “I didn’t want to pretend to do things. I wanted to actually do them,” was his succinct reply.
Where other men might be ego driven, Larry wasn’t. Math and geometry are easy for me. Not for Larry, who took an extra year to graduate from high school. One day he was trying to line out the topside planking of the boat we were building. I asked him what he was doing. He explained how hard it was to get the right spacing so the lines would look fair and handsome. I thought about it for a few minutes and suggested a mathematical solution. “Let’s try it,” he said. A few months later I happened to be inside the boat shop cutting wood plugs when one of Larry’s mentors came by to check our progress. “Nice job of lining out,” Roy Wildman said. Larry didn’t hesitate: “Lin showed me how to do it.”

Larry was the master of quips. One day when I was trying to drive four-inch nails into my very first wood-working project, a set of saw horses, I threw the hammer half way across the boatyard in frustration. He calmly picked it up and said, “If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.” That became the motto that underlay our lives together.

Larry had very high expectations of himself and encouraged the same in me, while at the same time being very careful not to dent my self-esteem. After three-and-a-half years of working together we finally set off on our first ocean passage on the boat we’d built, the 24-foot Seraffyn. The second day out, a hundred miles south of San Diego, I became horridly seasick. I was laying on the cabin sole, bucket nearby, feeling sure I’d ruined both our dreams. He set the windvane, came down below and sat on the floor stroking my hair. “Remember, Lord Admiral Nelson got deathly seasick every time he went to sea,” he said."

https://www.sail-world.com/news/231449/Tribute-to-Larry-Pardey-Memories-from-Lin-Pardey
 

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