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Old 12-07-2017, 04:27 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by gaston View Post
Where I boat 90% of the time there is no one to help.
I boat alone at times and with a wind trying to blow me off the dock when docking its near impossible without thusters .
Still cant see why all the negativity ???????? My wife has limited boating experience at the helm and she can dock with thrusters if require
No negativity, It was positivity about the benefits of a spring line. It does some things better than thrusters can. Specifically, holding the bow to the dock for an extended period of time, as mentioned.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:44 PM   #62
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In our part of the world the dock boys are seasonal and I wouldn't want to rely on them anyway.

But cleats are almost nonexistent here; bullrails are the norm and are rather difficult to lasso.
I will admit, I didn't know what 'bull rails' were. The internet cleared that up.

Based upon the bull rails in the pics, I would not take much of a strain on the bull rails. The appear weak and would pop off the dock, flying to the boat and/or the onboard line handler. I dont have a solution in this case.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:49 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by OldDan1943 View Post
I will admit, I didn't know what 'bull rails' were. The internet cleared that up.

Based upon the bull rails in the pics, I would not take much of a strain on the bull rails. The appear weak and would pop off the dock, flying to the boat and/or the onboard line handler.case.

Your thrusters may be handy
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:02 PM   #64
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I will admit, I didn't know what 'bull rails' were. The internet cleared that up.

Based upon the bull rails in the pics, I would not take much of a strain on the bull rails. The appear weak and would pop off the dock, flying to the boat and/or the onboard line handler. I dont have a solution in this case.
No they are very robust. Definitely not easy to lasso without a device of some kind. When I boated out west, we used to use a double "L" (or bent "Y"?) piece of rebar with an eye welded on, I've seen people use a small Danforth type anchor that worked pretty slick. Practice practice practice though.

While Ann would typically welcome help from the dock, I resist using strangers whose skills are unknown if at all possible. Our Hatteras MY had about 6 feet of freeboard at midship, but a little practice got both of us able to rodeo a spring onto floating dock cleat or to pilings pretty easily, and we are about as uncoordinated and un-agile as you can get.
I don't discount that a single engine makes it a bit harder and I don't think I'd have one without a bow thruster, though I learned on one without.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:11 PM   #65
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While Ann would typically welcome help from the dock, I resist using strangers whose skills are unknown if at all possible.
I feel the same. I have no idea if the good Samaritan on the dock is a boater, a guest, or drunk. I can't trust they can tell a bow tie from a bowline.

We toss a bowline end to the dock. A large one if there are pilings and simply ask the someone at the dock to toss the loop over a piling or cleat. We control the lines from the boat. This also helps if we need to warp onto the dock using the piling.

I'm cautious about warping off a cleat. I've never warped off a bull rail. We typically only see bull rails around dinghy docks and small boat docks.

When departing. I'll tie a looped line to a cleat, run it around the piling or cleat and back to the boat cleat again. Now we can untie one end and hand-over-hand the line from the piling or cleat back to the boat. This helps if I need to warp off of the dock. This also allows us to control the lines. WE just need to be careful not to get too much of the bitter end into the water and caught up in the bow thruster or prop.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:16 PM   #66
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This forum is given me blood pressure
That's great! Blood pressure is a good thing.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:21 PM   #67
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Conrad,
They sell a hook that looks a bit like part of a mushroom anchor for snaging bull rails. Or one could probably use a little 3lb Claw anchor.

Here’s a good use of an aft cockpit helm. Far far better than being on a FB. Swing the stern over to the float, step off casually, PU the previously placed mooring line (snaked along the railing) that is your midship line. Take a few steps fwd to your midship station and haul the line in and tie off. Now you’re tied to the float and you can take your time making fast all the other lines and adjusting. Once you’ve got a line amidships fast no stress or challange.

However if you’ve got so much windage and can’t hold the line forget the above. Don’t see your boat as one w a windage problem though.

I hate cleats as they are almost always in the wrong place or too small. They are easier to tie off though. Wish all floats had bull rails.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:23 PM   #68
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While Ann would typically welcome help from the dock, I resist using strangers whose skills are unknown if at all possible. .
Yup, that is why I said, listen to and follow the directions of the captain or in this case your designated line handler, your wife.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:27 PM   #69
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Hmmm, tossing a small anchor to the bull rail or even across the dock so you get a better hold.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:46 PM   #70
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In my installation I have more power from the bow thruster. On a SD type boat the rear thruster can be quiet near the surface. It can suck some air when running reducing thrust. I am single screw, i use the thruster more often as a brake to slow boat just before touching the dock.

I have been told diverters that aim the flow downwards can be of help. Any one tried these additions?
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:48 PM   #71
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In my installation I have more power from the bow thruster. On a SD type boat the rear thruster can be quiet near the surface. It can suck some air when running reducing thrust. I am single screw, i use the thruster more often as a brake to slow boat just before touching the dock.

I have been told diverters that aim the flow downwards can be of help. Any one tried these additions?
I put them on the one I installed. I put them on from the get-go, so I don't have anything to compare them to.

I had a VERY shallow install due to the SD hull. It worked really well for us, though - a 3.5 ft keel can really be fun trying to dock in a cross-current (where we docked regularly). No amount of rudder/screw finesse will help with that.

I really liked the new "boat" control panel vs. the two joysticks - I added it to combine with the bow thruster when I added the stern.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:00 AM   #72
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On a single screw inboard, if you can only have one, a bow thruster is generally more useful. With practice and perhaps a bit of research or instruction, you can move the stern sideways with the rudder and propeller. You can only move the bow sideways with a thruster.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:08 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by OldDan1943 View Post
I will admit, I didn't know what 'bull rails' were. The internet cleared that up.

Based upon the bull rails in the pics, I would not take much of a strain on the bull rails. The appear weak and would pop off the dock, flying to the boat and/or the onboard line handler. I dont have a solution in this case.
Hi,

This is very nice equipment help some times.
https://youtu.be/rMsyxnryt-s?list=PL...yQBKyHsNAGf-rd

NBs
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:10 AM   #74
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On a single screw inboard, if you can only have one, a bow thruster is generally more useful. With practice and perhaps a bit of research or instruction, you can move the stern sideways with the rudder and propeller. You can only move the bow sideways with a thruster.
or a springline in some cases.

Dont get me wrong, you can do things with thrusters not possible without, but you can dock in nearly evry conceivable situation with the aid of springs.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:11 AM   #75
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Boathealer I like your install.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:25 AM   #76
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very informative posts. But, one thing. I've had to dodge coral heads that need immediate attention and no spring lines will deal with those. Obviously, picking my way thru a coral minefield is not the best place to put a single eng. boat, but this risk is present.

the transit from spanish wells to N eluthra comes to mind. Many, many examples.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:28 AM   #77
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Hi,

This is very nice equipment help some times.
https://youtu.be/rMsyxnryt-s?list=PL...yQBKyHsNAGf-rd

NBs
I want one!!!
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:30 AM   #78
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very informative posts. But, one thing. I've had to dodge coral heads that need immediate attention and no spring lines will deal with those. Obviously, picking my way thru a coral minefield is not the best place to put a single eng. boat, but this risk is present.
as.I posted.... thrusters allow you to do things impossible or nearly so without.

I would.back.my friends 55 Viking Motoryacht out of a tight marina with 2 - 90 degree turns....and often a long straight away with bad cross winds.

Using offside prop and its propwalk, combined with thw bowthruster,.I could.keep it dead.center the whole.way versus wiggling out.woth both engines.

Cold be.done with engines only, but not.nearly as impressive...
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:47 PM   #79
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Happened at least once when my turn in tight quarters would result in collision due to miscalculation, but was avoided using the bow thruster to tighten the turn. ... Wise to have the thruster available for instant use in tight situations.
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:59 PM   #80
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Apart from helping turn the boat around using both bow and stern thrust, the only other use of the stern thruster was to push the stern into the dock to help with lines after the bow line was attached. The bow thruster did most of the work. The stern thruster was of marginal value. Logically, it is much harder to move the stern sideways rather than turn the bow, and to do so effectively takes a lot more thrust. I think many stern thrusters are simply under-powered to help much. The imaginary concept of moving the vessel sideways using bow and stern thrust is simply that - imaginary - unless you own the Queen Mary!!
Well, Delfin isn't exactly the Queen Mary and her bow and stern thrusters move her sideways just fine. Perhaps they are just sized right for the vessel?

To the O.P.s question, it is interesting to hear from one member with stern only who thought it great, and those with both who think the stern redundant. I find myself using both all the time, and they come in especially handy when I want to turn the vessel in her own length with the usual forward/reverse fiddling you can use without stabilizers.

But if I had to choose one over the other, I guess I would have to opt for the bow. You can use prop wash and rotation of the wheel to kick the stern around, but there isn't as much you can do easily for the bow.
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